India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[rock127]

Na ...Na ...Na ...

Indian Defence forces have never been defensive ... It Inda as a nation that has been defensive..
Be it 1948, 1965, 1971, 1999 or recent times, Indian Defence Forces have been offensive but every time it the country which reined them...

It is our system, elites and rulers who have not provided them sufficient wherewithal to go berserk on the enemy - OFB does not provide sufficient arms and ammunition, DRDO does not do any research and any new technology. Mod and technocrates hinder imports, lobbist and dala make big money. CGDA blocks expenditure, MoF withdraws fund...

And you are saying our Defense Forces are defensive ?? You expect them to kill the Chinese with stones.... No sir .. No sir...

Say we as a country are defensive....

That's another way of explaining BUT practically we lack offensive capabilities.

 

[Bhadra]

My Point Is Why taking Chances
And Chinese are Not bad At technology its Myth Started by west to Marginalize Asians like For indians a Rapist Tag

they capture 72 % Of are Smartphones Market in matter of 5 years Shows there Development

Look at there Research Paper Output

Lets Not be Pakistan

We Indians are Known for Logical thinking
Many serious western Military Analyst are really Started taking Chinese a Serious military threat
read Research papers on Chinese capabilities

Lets Not demean Our adversary Just because they are Once a Colonized race like We do
Chinese are Too a Ancient And Economic power like India

From this Whole Episode Iam really happy That Whole Military And political Apparatus has changed in regard of Chinese threat

For Indian army

"AB mila hai asli Dushan takkar Ka Mazza ayega "

@WARREN SS

Why use bold letter... you make strong points without bold letters..

 

[right wing]

This calls for full-fledged enquiry into border guarding... our Police force guarding borders have been buttressing political interests of a Party and keeping quite....
Our MEA has been keeping quite...
Only Armed Forces have been getting their arses badgered in putting things again in place..

To be honest the blame lies with everyone,not just the police or the MEA,but even the MoD guys including army ..measures on giving up Siachen had support in top circles of army and even amongst veterans.
But yes I agree to your broader point that border management under 17 different heads only hamstrings operational capabilities.

 

[WARREN SS]

@WARREN SS

Why use bold letter... you make strong points without bold letters..

Only Used in specific posts

Which I want to highlight

 

[IndiaRising]

My Dear Sir.
These are multiple incursions that threaten entire Ladakh but tactically different areas.

Galwan River is more than 200 km in length cutting through Karakoram ranges that leads the base of Kijil Jilga near G-219. The Chinese have been very sensitive to it being in Indian hands. However the present LAC in Galwan River is the nearest to DSDBO Raod. Chinese being there threatens that road. Chinese have become more sensitive to Galwan since India constructed a bridge here to cross Shyok to get into Galvan valley.

Gorga Complex is a vital ground that threatens DSDBO Road as also DBO Complex. In fact SSN will get threatened. So it is vital for defence of DBO - Trig Hts Complex.

Pengang Tso is the nearest and shortest approach to Leh. It also threatens Darbuk and Tangtse to the north thereby DSDBO Road also That is why some of the bitterest battles had taken around here at Raezangla, Gurung Hill, Magar Hill, Srijap Complex and Chusul..

Now. there is no price for guessing why these are pressure points and why Penang Tso is the focal point.

but sir is it possible to move troops in sufficient numbers via Pangong Tso? even the incursion now is limited to less than 150 soldiers in the finger areas. wouldn't it be more efficient for them to attack Chushul via Spangur?

 

[right wing]

That's another way of explaining BUT practically we lack offensive capabilities.

Rather the fear of the bomb paralyzed policy making in Delhi for 2 decades since Kargil.
The best thing the balakot strike did is made their mad PM openly acknowledge in parliament they nuclear bombs will not win wars for Pak..and with that the policy paralysis tied up with the bomb also went up in clouds in Delhi.
Do remember this is not a mean feat ..a far stronger south Korea doesn't act against north due to the same fear.
This single totally political call taken by our PM has opened up our offensive capabilities manifold.

 

[Tactical Frog]

This thread deserves some discussions moved elsewhere for clarity

War scenarios and associated geopolitical developments
India vs China balance of forces

 

[IndianHawk]

Nope They Have 4000 + 3rd gen ration tanks
They Also Equipped they With Hard Kill APS system And BMS

They are Spending huge in R&D New Kinetic Sabots rounds Specially DU rounds

And Armour Is Equal to Russian Konkant-5 class
You can See Tank balathion Tournament in russia There Tanks are really Comparable To T-72b3 And T-90s in mobility if not Armour


Compare There SPH To tank Ratio

Real Force Multiplier are There Copy Of Smerch And BM Grad
Almost Almost 1500 + Compare To our 266 +

They Heavy investing in MLRS While We don't Even Produce Single Regiment of Prahaar

My point Is We are Trapped in are own incompetence And Corrupt Bureaucratic system

We have stock of 60000+ atgm to deal with their armour and we have 4000 tanks even if not as upgraded as theirs. But that's because we know Himalayas are not suitable for tank battle.

Our artillery plan doesn't call for that many sph. We will be better served by ulh against china we are already building + kalyani ulh is ready for longer domestic production.

They are clearly ahead in rocket artillery but their utility in mountains terrain in suspect.

We had to give bramhos vertical drive capability to be effective in such terrain . How effective simple rockets will be there is anybody's guess.

I agree with your point of psu incompetence and corruption. But it's not Himalayas saving us. You will see a very difference kind of armour from India if we had plain border with china. That's what I am saying.

We are not very offensive toward china because terrain doesn't permit such posture.

Mountains require more men than machine and we have outnumber Chinese there overwhelmingly.

 

[Bhadra]

That's another way of explaining BUT practically we lack offensive capabilities.

Please say... we have not allowed India to build offensive capabilities..

I will give you an example...
Since Kargil we have raised more than 300 battalions of CAPF who can only undertake limited Defensive tasks or work only as Dunda mar Police and those have deliberately not allowed to come anywhere near the Army..

India has become a large police state focussed on the continuation of a particular regime and particular political dispensation centred around a few politicians and large bureaucracy.

It was not a rumour but fact that a particular regime and set of bureaucracy felt threatened by Indian Defense Forces. They did everything to weaken the Armed Forces by undercutting their pay and allowances, downgrading them in status, underfunding them, holding back and withdrawing funds, blocking new weapons, not ensuring supplies, creating alarming deficiencies thus rendering them weak even in undertaking military actions.

The MCS was kept in lingers, no new raising sanctioned and external security bargained on favourable terms of others.

 

[WARREN SS]

We have stock of 60000+ atgm to deal with their armour and we have 4000 tanks even if not as upgraded as theirs. But that's because we know Himalayas are not suitable for tank battle.

Our artillery plan doesn't call for that many sph. We will be better served by ulh against china we are already building + kalyani ulh is ready for longer domestic production.

They are clearly ahead in rocket artillery but their utility in mountains terrain in suspect.

We had to give bramhos vertical drive capability to be effective in such terrain . How effective simple rockets will be there is anybody's guess.

I agree with your point of psu incompetence and corruption. But it's not Himalayas saving us. You will see a very difference kind of armour from India if we had plain border with china. That's what I am saying.

We are not very offensive toward china because terrain doesn't permit such posture.

Mountains require more men than machine and we have outnumber Chinese there overwhelmingly.

I agree With all your Points(they too have ATGM's you know)

But We are Very Slow Even that Pakistani's in procurement

Chinese On they other hand Are No1 In Manufacturing like USSR style There Strategic adversary is US
Which is Stronger
Our is Pakistan

Here Is the clear difference

That is Why our Boys still patrolling With Insas And Our Pilots flying Mig-21

Hope this Incident Wake us up

 

[IndianHawk]

I agree With all your Points(they too have ATGM's you know)

But We are Very Slow Even that Pakistani's in procurement

Chinese On they other hand Are No1 In Manufacturing like USSR style There Strategic adversary is US
Which Stronger Our is Pakistan

Here Is the clear difference

That is Why our Boys still patrolling With Insas And Our Pilots flying Mig-21

Hope this Incident Wake us up

You are right bro.
But against pakistan we are building whole ecosystem like I posted earlier. They may get few ready made system before us but ultimately we are leaving them decades behind.

Against Chinese we are behind. But are catching up pretty fast. Economy is key there. We are barely 8-9 years behind china on that curve and are now growing faster.

I too hope this incident opens up flood of indegeious equipment. Allow private sector to build ammunition. Induct 1000s of ulh. 100s of lch and luh..

Build more prahar , pranash whatever we can build up.

Focus must now shift to take the war in tibet .

 

[Bhadra]

but sir is it possible to move troops in sufficient numbers via Pangong Tso? even the incursion now is limited to less than 150 soldiers in the finger areas. wouldn't it be more efficient for them to attack Chushul via Spangur?

You can move and build up forces through Penang Tso much faster than walking same distance. It is about 95 km long on Chinese side. So the large boats can be used to build logistics. provide medical cover and build a large recce force up to finger 5 / 4.

Well, the vehicles, tanks and Guns may not be able to use water route but troops can come to about Finger 8 Areas and then launch operations from northern or Southern banks towards Rezangla, Spangur Gap. Chusul or towards Darbuk - Yangtse. The Chinese can virtually come behind Indian positions behind Spangur Gap and also Hot Spring and turn the Indian defences dangerously.

 

[Suhaan]

This is why Chinese never allowed us to rival them by poking paki nose ,guess if only we had China to concentrate we would have worked our asses out in matching them,but all this while we had to deal with a rogue western neighbour

I agree With all your Points(they too have ATGM's you know)

But We are Very Slow Even that Pakistani's in procurement

Chinese On they other hand Are No1 In Manufacturing like USSR style There Strategic adversary is US
Which is Stronger
Our is Pakistan

Here Is the clear difference

That is Why our Boys still patrolling With Insas And Our Pilots flying Mig-21

Hope this Incident Wake us up

 

[rock127]

Our power is going to multiply in next few years.
People are missing the big picture.

Our forex has grown massively building financial security. Our manufacturing is improving at rapid pace.

On military side. We are building whole ecosystem now .
Once uttam Astra mk2 mwf become ready we will be we will have full spectrum of indegeious capability. Which pakistan can't even dream to match.
Astra mk2 will beat pl15 /aim 120d . Sfdr will take us to meteor level.

Once amca flies we will have more stealthy plane than j20 with more reliable engine.

Then there are tedbf / orca / rustom / aura etc.

Similarly ssn will come online within a decade and all ssbn (4arihant + 3 S5) shall be ready .

Akash mk2 is coming. Xr Sam will be ready in few years mrsam is already coming in.

An entire family of cruise missile deprived from nirbhay will come along with bramhos ng . Desi engine for ramjet is almost ready.

Rudram class air to surface missile are coming. Pinaka is constantly improving range.

Artillery are ready by multiple sources indegeiously.

We are building biggest military industrial complex after USA and china. Even Russian military complex will look like a dwarf in front of what we will build up in next 10-15 years.

We are already building more frigrates right now than what entire UK navy has in service!!

It's a massive massive buildup. It's looking slow Because people are not seeing things together.

I might write a post looking at entire build up in free time. That's going to be a very long post .

More than that we have to make sure we have right govt in power.

See what @Bhadra said in post #4989

 

[Hiranyaksha]

I dunno why but I am having a hunch that China is playing a very nefarious game and we do have major chance of war in few years.

 

[WARREN SS]

Life In PLA

 

[Gaurav Rai]

I dunno why but I am having a hunch that China is playing a very nefarious game and we do have major chance of war in few years.

Naah, they just think of winning war through such non violent nefarious means. They can't engage Taiwan yet, forget about them ever attacking us and being successful.

 

[IndiaRising]

good that retired veterans, even though they are associated with BJP, are hitting back at this man-child.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I dunno why but I am having a hunch that China is playing a very nefarious game and we do have major chance of war in few years.

No...

China is a pussy.

it exposed itself in such skirmishes by uploading funny videos of sissy troops.

i highly doubt the fight their soldiers offer..i think a long war with india could break up their country if nuclear weapons are not used.

being an economic power doesnt mean it is a military power... Germans were of this delusion in ww2 and soviets taught them a lesson in which they lost 150000 troops in the battle of Stalingrad starving and the red army reaching berlin.

 

[abhay rajput]

No...

China is a pussy.

it exposed itself in such skirmishes by uploading funny videos of sissy troops.

i highly doubt the fight their soldiers offer..i think a long war with india could break up their country if nuclear weapons are not used.

being an economic power doesnt mean it is a military power... Germans were of this delusion in ww2 and soviets taught them a lesson in which they lost 150000 troops in the battle of Stalingrad starving and the red army reaching berlin.

You are from inside sir , don't you have some knowledge about recent standoff. If you have please share with us.