Civil & Military Bureaucracy and related discussions

daya

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There is no doubt that babudom in India is blind to security and strategic factors.
The Babudom is dangerous, not only for security and strategic factors but also for the common man. When a person, though, hailing from a lowest quarter, gets selected for these services, he becomes autocrat, starts behaving like a raja-maharaja, and turns blind eye to everyone, save his personal interests. This is truth and bitter truth. Koi maane ya na maane. Bhagwan ban jaata hai wo. Just try to interact any person holding high office in India.
 

Roshan

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The Babudom is dangerous, not only for security and strategic factors but also for the common man. When a person, though, hailing from a lowest quarter, gets selected for these services, he becomes autocrat, starts behaving like a raja-maharaja, and turns blind eye to everyone, save his personal interests. This is truth and bitter truth. Koi maane ya na maane. Bhagwan ban jaata hai wo. Just try to interact any person holding high office in India.
this is an issue for which we need a whole other thread imo. in 7 decades we haven't reformed our anachronistic colonial era bureaucratic system and we wonder why they don't act in our nation's interest. this becomes evident even among our pandu havaldars who behave like school teachers with their harassment and rent seeking at all levels. Like Gaurav arya said we need to remove the bureaucracy at least in defence by abolishing the ministry which necessitates all this and find another way to keep a check and balance.
 

Bhadra

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this is an issue for which we need a whole other thread imo. in 7 decades we haven't reformed our anachronistic colonial era bureaucratic system and we wonder why they don't act in our nation's interest. this becomes evident even among our pandu havaldars who behave like school teachers with their harassment and rent seeking at all levels. Like Gaurav arya said we need to remove the bureaucracy at least in defence by abolishing the ministry which necessitates all this and find another way to keep a check and balance.
32 / 35 years of entry age and eight attempts means you are not recruiting a servant but a master.... ??

My God by 32 years of age an average Army officers has sweated his everything for 9 to 10 years while the other guy was fiddling with various things in JNU. Suddenly this guy is selected as IPS and within one year he tells a colonel of twenty years service that he Is senior to a colonel, H Ha Ha .. On top of that he would have crash-landed with reservations...

After that it is declared that all his sins are washed off. No examination, no criteria, no course nothing... he lands a job of Chief Secretary as his birthright...

All of them must serve in subordinate Service ranks for about ten years. No one should by a DC or SP of a district before 15 years of service.

But it seems we have no civil servants .. we recruit Civil Masters..to give job to the useless and unfit kids of mighty and influential who could not make it anywhere so far and can afford to put their children into coaching institutes up to eight chances.. even a donkey will make it..

What a system...
 
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Bhadra

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The poor guy seems to have been asked to be a little vocal if he wants to save his job... roar a little bit.
We need a first-class Gunda and a danda master in MoD to deal with OFB, DPSUs, DRDO, and Babus who can send them on night duty to Finger four or Galwan post with every drop of the hat...

How much I miss George Fernandes.

They can call Yogi Aadityanath to be sometimes present in MoD if VK Singh is not acceptable. Alternatively, outsource the job to Momota Didi..
 
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HawkisRight

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32 / 35 years of entry age and eight attempts means you are not recruiting a servant but a master.... ??

My God by 32 years of age an average Army officers has sweated his everything for 9 to 10 years while the other guy was fiddling with various things in JNU. Suddenly this guy is selected as IPS and within one year he tells a colonel of twenty years service that he Is senior to a colonel, H Ha Ha ..

All of them must serve in subordinate Service ranks for about ten years. No one should by a DC or SP of a district before 15 years of service.

But it seems we have no civil servants .. we recruit Civil Masters..to give job to the useless and unfit kids of mighty and influential who could not make it anywhere so far and can afford to put their children into coaching institutes up to eight chances.. even a donkey will make it..

What a system...
It's a very lengthy discussion but to cut in short we r civilian democracy.. yes there are problems it can be frustrating at times. system can be improved a lot case by case tweaks can be made in sy but civilian will always have the authority over military just like western democracies whether u like it or not we r not military junta
 

Floydian

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32 / 35 years of entry age and eight attempts means you are not recruiting a servant but a master.... ??

My God by 32 years of age an average Army officers has sweated his everything for 9 to 10 years while the other guy was fiddling with various things in JNU. Suddenly this guy is selected as IPS and within one year he tells a colonel of twenty years service that he Is senior to a colonel, H Ha Ha .. On top of that he would have crash-landed with reservations...

After that it is declared that all his sins are washed off. No examination, no criteria, no course nothing... he lands a job of Chief Secretary as his birthright...

All of them must serve in subordinate Service ranks for about ten years. No one should by a DC or SP of a district before 15 years of service.

But it seems we have no civil servants .. we recruit Civil Masters..to give job to the useless and unfit kids of mighty and influential who could not make it anywhere so far and can afford to put their children into coaching institutes up to eight chances.. even a donkey will make it..

What a system...
Totally agree with you, sir!
Sad facts of our nation! :(
 

ezsasa

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32 / 35 years of entry age and eight attempts means you are not recruiting a servant but a master.... ??

My God by 32 years of age an average Army officers has sweated his everything for 9 to 10 years while the other guy was fiddling with various things in JNU. Suddenly this guy is selected as IPS and within one year he tells a colonel of twenty years service that he Is senior to a colonel, H Ha Ha .. On top of that he would have crash-landed with reservations...

After that it is declared that all his sins are washed off. No examination, no criteria, no course nothing... he lands a job of Chief Secretary as his birthright...

All of them must serve in subordinate Service ranks for about ten years. No one should by a DC or SP of a district before 15 years of service.

But it seems we have no civil servants .. we recruit Civil Masters..to give job to the useless and unfit kids of mighty and influential who could not make it anywhere so far and can afford to put their children into coaching institutes up to eight chances.. even a donkey will make it..

What a system...
how does this logic even make sense?
By this logic the president is unqualified to be the boss of Indian armed forces, RM is unqualified to be the executive boss of Indian armed forces, PM is unqualified to be the boss is babudom.

we all know that’s not how real world works.

========
P.S : I am inclined to make a dedicated thread named “Bhadra’s Musings” just for you. So that all your off topic gems can be curated and be put in one place for future generations can have a one stop shop for all the deficiencies & problem statements you are keen to highlight in the current governance systems and to enrich the knowledge of rest of the members at DFI...
 

Bhadra

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It's a very lengthy discussion but to cut in short we r civilian democracy.. yes there are problems it can be frustrating at times. system can be improved a lot case by case tweaks can be made in sy but civilian will always have the authority over military just like western democracies whether u like it or not we r not military junta
Two quick points.... Some people like you think that we are the only democracy in the world. All other democracies that respect and give due to their soldiers are all fools and must learn from us... This stupid belief is then further extended even in diplomacy when we try and teach Pakistanis, Nepalis, Burmese , Bangladeshis how to enslave their fauzies.. and then end up screwing everything..

Second. Civilian Supremacy means the supremacy of Political masters/leaders and not the supremacy of civilian bureaucrats. No Western country such as Germany, France, UK or even USA practice such typical Indian definition of Civilian Control (bureaucracy).... after all we have aren't the concepts from them but modifies as per Indian bureaucrats convenience...

No sir, Not Acceptable... Politics is supreme not bureaucracy... There are no equations between Civilian bureaucrats and Defence Forces except for ranks higher than Maj Gens as per presidential notification on the order of precedence. All civilian officers are only "Shri" as a matter of courtesy...

"Soldiers and the Sate" By Huntington is a minimum compulsory reading on the subject.. must read it..

My last reply on the subject...
 

Bhadra

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how does this logic even make sense?
By this logic the president is unqualified to be the boss of Indian armed forces, RM is unqualified to be the executive boss of Indian armed forces, PM is unqualified to be the boss is babudom.

we all know that’s not how real world works.

========
P.S : I am inclined to make a dedicated thread named “Bhadra’s Musings” just for you. So that all your off topic gems can be curated and be put in one place for future generations can have a one stop shop for all the deficiencies & problem statements you are keen to highlight in the current governance systems and to enrich the knowledge of rest of the members at DFI...
Do whatever you wish... since you are the moderator..

If you watch carefully and do your job of a moderator, you must have seen that I only responded. I have not started this topic....
Rest all I take it as your personal comment the tenor of which I know well.. on facts I can challenge you to prove me wrong even on single count, I will correct that...

Yes, if you and your owner does not like my views you can say so.. I can exit honourably before you ban me...
 

Bhadra

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how does this logic even make sense?
By this logic the president is unqualified to be the boss of Indian armed forces, RM is unqualified to be the executive boss of Indian armed forces, PM is unqualified to be the boss is babudom.

we all know that’s not how real world works.

========
P.S : I am inclined to make a dedicated thread named “Bhadra’s Musings” just for you. So that all your off topic gems can be curated and be put in one place for future generations can have a one stop shop for all the deficiencies & problem statements you are keen to highlight in the current governance systems and to enrich the knowledge of rest of the members at DFI...
It makes sense because all those you listed are political representatives/ peoples representatives authorised by the constitution to exercise political control. We are talking about bureaucrats who are public servants like Defence Officers - not empowered or authorized to do whatever they assume - not empowered to exercise any political control.

Lack of basic understanding... what can Bhadra do ??
 

ezsasa

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Do whatever you wish... since you are the moderator..

If you watch carefully and do your job of a moderator, you must have seen that I only responded. I have not started this topic....
Rest all I take it as your personal comment the tenor of which I know well.. on facts I can challenge you to prove me wrong even on single count, I will correct that...

Yes, if you and your owner does not like my views you can say so.. I can exit honourably before you ban me...
solution is very simple, If there is a chance that the sub-topic being discussed is veering off the main topic, the discussion can always be continued in a different thread, it’s a matter of etiquette, to keep the thread within limits of topic and reduce the work load on volunteer mods and retain the quality of discourse in line with topic.

The points you make are unique, valuable and follow a pattern, hence the suggestion of a new thread called “Bhadra’s musings”. not all suggestions have ill intent mate, sometimes they are just suggestions for better bookkeeping.
 

doreamon

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32 / 35 years of entry age and eight attempts means you are not recruiting a servant but a master.... ??

My God by 32 years of age an average Army officers has sweated his everything for 9 to 10 years while the other guy was fiddling with various things in JNU. Suddenly this guy is selected as IPS and within one year he tells a colonel of twenty years service that he Is senior to a colonel, H Ha Ha .. On top of that he would have crash-landed with reservations...

After that it is declared that all his sins are washed off. No examination, no criteria, no course nothing... he lands a job of Chief Secretary as his birthright...

All of them must serve in subordinate Service ranks for about ten years. No one should by a DC or SP of a district before 15 years of service.

But it seems we have no civil servants .. we recruit Civil Masters..to give job to the useless and unfit kids of mighty and influential who could not make it anywhere so far and can afford to put their children into coaching institutes up to eight chances.. even a donkey will make it..

What a system...
Civil service is not as glorious as u think it to be .. i am nt sure, colonel seems to be selection grade which ias ips takes around 15yrs to reach in their respective domain .. and in min of defence IAS officers are handling the work mostly related to where they have to deal with other ministries and civilian departments. Now officers from the Army, Navy and the Air Force will get posted to the Defence Ministry as Joint Secretaries with the newly-created Department of Military Affairs (DMA) under Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) General Bipin Rawat who is moving a proposal for it.
As per as all powerful babus are concerned i know many instances where they were slapped or snubbed behind closed doors by even small local political leaders .. Golden age of licence raj is gone.. now civil society is strong .. there are laws like RTI .
Being a babu Kind of political interference u have to face in every day life.. threats u get for ur family frm mafia or political leaders to help them do wht they want to do.. let me tell you its nt as glorified . Many officers spend their life in a obscure dept because they were innocent . The power u believe they possess is just the outer layer to show.. Despite all this many good works are being done by unknown minds behind closed doors who does nt take credit for nythng .. dont tell me there are no corruption in army .. We dnt want to talk abt it as this is matter of national pride .
 

Roshan

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32 / 35 years of entry age and eight attempts means you are not recruiting a servant but a master.... ??

My God by 32 years of age an average Army officers has sweated his everything for 9 to 10 years while the other guy was fiddling with various things in JNU. Suddenly this guy is selected as IPS and within one year he tells a colonel of twenty years service that he Is senior to a colonel, H Ha Ha .. On top of that he would have crash-landed with reservations...

After that it is declared that all his sins are washed off. No examination, no criteria, no course nothing... he lands a job of Chief Secretary as his birthright...

All of them must serve in subordinate Service ranks for about ten years. No one should by a DC or SP of a district before 15 years of service.

But it seems we have no civil servants .. we recruit Civil Masters..to give job to the useless and unfit kids of mighty and influential who could not make it anywhere so far and can afford to put their children into coaching institutes up to eight chances.. even a donkey will make it..

What a system...
i have seen the upsc syllabus and while i'm no expert on that subject i've always wondered whether that 9th 10th std syllabus will help them in using their grey cells and life experience in solving workaday problems without going through a Kota style course to become a civil servant. what you said about the army applies to the police too imo, someone should theoretically be able to rise up from a constable to becoming a dcp without having the ips rubber stamp if they are competent no?
 

Bhadra

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Civil service is not as glorious as u think it to be .. i am nt sure, colonel seems to be selection grade which ias ips takes around 15yrs to reach in their respective domain .. and in min of defence IAS officers are handling the work mostly related to where they have to deal with other ministries and civilian departments. Now officers from the Army, Navy and the Air Force will get posted to the Defence Ministry as Joint Secretaries with the newly-created Department of Military Affairs (DMA) under Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) General Bipin Rawat who is moving a proposal for it.
As per as all powerful babus are concerned i know many instances where they were slapped or snubbed behind closed doors by even small local political leaders .. Golden age of licence raj is gone.. now civil society is strong .. there are laws like RTI .
Being a babu Kind of political interference u have to face in every day life.. threats u get for ur family frm mafia or political leaders to help them do wht they want to do.. let me tell you its nt as glorified . Many officers spend their life in a obscure dept because they were innocent . The power u believe they possess is just the outer layer to show.. Despite all this many good works are being done by unknown minds behind closed doors who does nt take credit for nythng .. dont tell me there are no corruption in army .. We dnt want to talk abt it as this is matter of national pride .
I am my self a great admirer of good bureaucrats some of whom I had the fortune to work with and my work mostly involved interaction with the Civilian bureaucracy.. If they are powerful and running he country in personal capacities it is because of the ineptitude of our political leaders who have vacated the directional and policy formulation space willy nilly to the bureaucrats. I have seen Mulayam Singh being given an operational briefing at the strategic level in Hindi by a General with his legs shaking as he hardly knew Hindi..

I am also aware of how lucky are the Defense Services officers who are insulated from everything bad that occurs in civilian space. They are at least not beaten up by Village Pradhan and are miles and miles away from politicians.

I inadvertently commented on the system.. I never wanted to hurt any feelings..
 

Bhadra

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Rawat has proposed 3 years tour of duty on the same lines .

Keep a ready experienced force of 5-6 lakh active men and make up the rest with youth on tour of duty.
That way you have enough experienced men to lead the new recruit or man the most critical areas.
The most impractical idea not keeping job realities in mind...

Such a vast population and such low cost of manpower is not available anywhere in the world. Only for the sake of overcoming pension problems, you can not have the main cadre and temporary cadre is the Army where everyone faces the same bullets..

Army seems to be imbibing wrong and incorrect ideas from bureaucracy and CAPF who work on the system of Superior Cadre and a subordinate cadre. Requirements of combat can not be met by divisions in Officer cadre. No way... This stinks of a plan that NDA cadre will all become Generals and all such three-year types will be cannon fodder. Whatever goodwill the Army has and the vital elan will be lost in no time. Soldiers will stop following officers.. Why should a youngster give his life knowing he has no future there and will be thrown out after three years. It is a profession of life and death. How can Army that so lightly.. many sons would be killed to buttress narrow interests..

Why bugger up three years of some Youngman? Three to four years he would not even wake up militarily. An NDA entry officer with four years of training and ragada takes about one - two years to wake up in a unit. Many units do not even allow him to enter Officers Mess unless he passes a Havildar promotion cadre. We expect that three years type Bakara to lead from the front ?? No No No... someone is dreaming or writing a paper for his boss..
 

IndianHawk

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The most impractical idea not keeping job realities in mind...

Such a vast population and such low cost of manpower is not available anywhere in the world. Only for the sake of overcoming pension problems, you can not have the main cadre and temporary cadre is the Army where everyone faces the same bullets..

Army seems to be imbibing wrong and incorrect ideas from bureaucracy and CAPF who work on the system of Superior Cadre and a subordinate cadre. Requirements of combat can not be met by divisions in Officer cadre. No way... This stinks of a plan that NDA cadre will all become Generals and all such three-year types will be cannon fodder. Whatever goodwill the Army has and the vital elan will be lost in no time. Soldiers will stop following officers.. Why should a youngster give his life knowing he has no future there and will be thrown out after three years. It is a profession of life and death. How can Army that so lightly.. many sons would be killed to buttress narrow interests..

Why bugger up three years of some Youngman? Three to four years he would not even wake up militarily. An NDA entry officer with four years of training and ragada takes about one - two years to wake up in a unit. Many units do not even allow him to enter Officers Mess unless he passes a Havildar promotion cadre. We expect that three years type Bakara to lead from the front ?? No No No... someone is dreaming or writing a paper for his boss..
In the practical world full flagged war is a rare event. In last 70 years we have had only 4 wars. Even among them 1999 was rather small scale and 1962 didn't see use of either airforce or navy .

Life that goes in service of nation is most supreme. Yet in total numbers lives lost in all wars till date are barely a rounding error to our population. So statically probability of dying in a war is extremely low. Most army men even now never see any bullet flying from enemy. Not one bullet has been fired in entire chinese border since last 40 years.

3 years of nation is not a wastage it's the service of nation with decent pay for youth while they learn actual skills which can later get them jobs or help in running business. And India has no dearth of youth willing to serve in army.

Officer cadre is miniscule compared to overall strength. That can remain in permanent Core army.

5 - 6 lakh core army can retain officers trainers and also become fully mechanized with robust rocket and air support. This can be deterrent for any aggression in itself. Meanwhile 10 lakh new youth can keep rotating and training for basic warfare in peace time.

In this we will actually end up training far more men for war then we currently do.

In 9 years we would have trained 30 lakh men ( 10 lakh new men per 3 year) . In 18 years 60 lakh men will be trained to fight .

All those gone after 3 years can be recalled for actual big scale war. Providing far more trained people than we may require.

We must look at all options. And keep practical realities in mind too. Ultimately we have to double down on air power and navy if we hope to take on china in future.
 

Bhadra

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In the practical world full flagged war is a rare event. In last 70 years we have had only 4 wars. Even among them 1999 was rather small scale and 1962 didn't see use of either airforce or navy .
This subject would require a different threads.
Your inferences are not based on correct facts and realities.
Due to peculiar nature of our conditions about 50 percent of our Army is Infantry. Half of our army is on active service along LAC. LOC and IN CI?CT operations. Due to ongoing national projects and priorities in National consolidation, Indian Army will remain committed to CI/CT operations for at least another fifty years in spite of separation of that subject and that being given to CRPF.

Infantry has the largest casualties due to terrain and enemy actions. Out of the casulties 20 per cent is young officers. All these officers will mainly go on active service with Infantry.

Life that goes in service of nation is most supreme. Yet in total numbers lives lost in all wars till date are barely a rounding error to our population. So statically probability of dying in a war is extremely low. Most army men even now never see any bullet flying from enemy. Not one bullet has been fired in entire chinese border since last 40 years.
Most of the Infantrymen are battle-hardened due to LOC and CI/CT. The growing urban Naxalism is very serious and would call on IA. LAC takes toll in the form of terrain casualties.

If National Service is so important than why not make the Govt servants serve in the Army for some time- The IPS, IRS, OAS, DEO, CAPF Officers, Audit and accounts officers. police inspectors, - there is a ver long list. Take them first. Why target unemployed youth.

3 years of nation is not a wastage it's the service of nation with decent pay for youth while they learn actual skills which can later get them jobs or help in running business. And India has no dearth of youth willing to serve in army.
No one learns any thing substantail in three years. Army will not take themto be posted to Ahmadabad or Bombay but field areas. Three years he will see only scargy rocky mountains, snow and avalanches.

Officer cadre is miniscule compared to overall strength. That can remain in permanent Core army.
But it is the spine of army which can be so weak.

5 - 6 lakh core army can retain officers trainers and also become fully mechanized with robust rocket and air support. This can be deterrent for any aggression in itself. Meanwhile 10 lakh new youth can keep rotating and training for basic warfare in peace time.
When an organization can easily get permanent officers then why resort to such knee jerk scheme ? What is the crisis? you simply want to fill lower ranks by temporary guys for the sake of someone else who you think will then become a general without competition.

In this we will actually end up training far more men for war then we currently do.
At what cost. and what use? We want more trained soldiers or more trained officers??

In 9 years we would have trained 30 lakh men ( 10 lakh new men per 3 year) . In 18 years 60 lakh men will be trained to fight .
What have you been able to achieve with NCC and TA?? Why not involve the recruited govt servants in national character building.

All those gone after 3 years can be recalled for actual big scale war. Providing far more trained people than we may require.
Upto what period after release? Will you give them reservist pay ??

We must look at all options. And keep practical realities in mind too. Ultimately we have to double down on air power and navy if we hope to take on china in future.
Explore other better ways like militarisation of CAPF. Or militarisation of al govt servants. Why militarise society and introduce a US type culture of Gun. It has serious social implications.
 

ProudIndian36

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32 / 35 years of entry age and eight attempts means you are not recruiting a servant but a master.... ??

My God by 32 years of age an average Army officers has sweated his everything for 9 to 10 years while the other guy was fiddling with various things in JNU. Suddenly this guy is selected as IPS and within one year he tells a colonel of twenty years service that he Is senior to a colonel, H Ha Ha .. On top of that he would have crash-landed with reservations...

After that it is declared that all his sins are washed off. No examination, no criteria, no course nothing... he lands a job of Chief Secretary as his birthright...

All of them must serve in subordinate Service ranks for about ten years. No one should by a DC or SP of a district before 15 years of service.

But it seems we have no civil servants .. we recruit Civil Masters..to give job to the useless and unfit kids of mighty and influential who could not make it anywhere so far and can afford to put their children into coaching institutes up to eight chances.. even a donkey will make it..

What a system...
The current civil servant system is ridiculous. We should abolish the whole IAS system and create a system where anyone most qualified and with experience in the subject area can enter.

Need to take an axe to this and OFB and idiots in procurement as well and rebuild into something efficient.
 

Flying Dagger

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This subject would require a different threads.
Your inferences are not based on correct facts and realities.
Due to peculiar nature of our conditions about 50 percent of our Army is Infantry. Half of our army is on active service along LAC. LOC and IN CI?CT operations. Due to ongoing national projects and priorities in National consolidation, Indian Army will remain committed to CI/CT operations for at least another fifty years in spite of separation of that subject and that being given to CRPF.

Infantry has the largest casualties due to terrain and enemy actions. Out of the casulties 20 per cent is young officers. All these officers will mainly go on active service with Infantry.



Most of the Infantrymen are battle-hardened due to LOC and CI/CT. The growing urban Naxalism is very serious and would call on IA. LAC takes toll in the form of terrain casualties.

If National Service is so important than why not make the Govt servants serve in the Army for some time- The IPS, IRS, OAS, DEO, CAPF Officers, Audit and accounts officers. police inspectors, - there is a ver long list. Take them first. Why target unemployed youth.



No one learns any thing substantail in three years. Army will not take themto be posted to Ahmadabad or Bombay but field areas. Three years he will see only scargy rocky mountains, snow and avalanches.



But it is the spine of army which can be so weak.



When an organization can easily get permanent officers then why resort to such knee jerk scheme ? What is the crisis? you simply want to fill lower ranks by temporary guys for the sake of someone else who you think will then become a general without competition.



At what cost. and what use? We want more trained soldiers or more trained officers??



What have you been able to achieve with NCC and TA?? Why not involve the recruited govt servants in national character building.



Upto what period after release? Will you give them reservist pay ??



Explore other better ways like militarisation of CAPF. Or militarisation of al govt servants. Why militarise society and introduce a US type culture of Gun. It has serious social implications.
There is no need to cut the army strength and it isn't the plan either I think.

But the long tail CRPF etc must be strengthened at the same time the chance to serve army for 3 yrs is a good addition too.

Experience being a soldier even for 3 years will help build the foundation of a stronger nation for sure in many field including entry into civilian world as law enforcer i.e. police etc.
 

Bhadra

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All developments so far point to a wider war possibility then just Ladakh. What actually happens is hard to see, the threat in AP and Sikkim cannot be ignored. Chinese can try incursions in HP and Uttarakhand also. Then obviously Kargil can become hot again.

We cannot be certain about intentions of Chinese as China is a closed society. Reading their mind is next to impossible.

India should plan for the worst including nuclear dimensions.
Then why have we kept super Jasoos of R&AW and IB in our establishment/ Their job is not only to draw fat pay package and sleep after eating Chinese opium... why spend billions on them...

We can outsources that function to CIA or Planet-lab or G-tis rather than being betrayed time and again by our own..

Our guys just copy and paste some report from somewhere and classify that as intelligence..
 

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