India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[ladder]

Border Management has been used frequently here. Which ministry is responsible for what part within the term 'border management'.
Linked is a paper/article on it.

INDIA’S BORDER MANAGEMENT STRATEGY
By
Lt Gen Vinod Bhatia (Retd), PVSM, AVSM, SM

 

[right wing]

I seriously fail to understand the members' chest beatings on us having lost territory based on write ups,opeds etc mostly by folks who are quoting sources and in case of foreigners these sources r shukla's crying from day one and for others Panags.
These people who went about showing itbp camps as having been either Chinese camps or being occupied were later thrashed by OSINTS across the board.
Till now not a single OSINT has shown any such destruction or occupation of Indian territory,but chest beatings won't stop.
People are blaming govt for tents near finger 4 and saying patrolling was earlier done till 8. Yes it was but do remember they had these roads 20 yrs back and permanent camps at 5,so they had stopped u earlier as well.
Because this govt is not sleeping as many like to feel here,as soon as the tents came up near 4 LAC got hot.
They unlike earlier times dint wait for deployments and that's why we r talking.
And to those folks claiming why Indian OSINTS not showing Indian deployments..@abhijitiyer has clearly stated the reason.
So please be objective and just don't demean your govt and forces at the drop off a hat based on known debunked sources

 

[hit&run]

Good answer by Major.

Heard that thug Rubbish Kumar after many years. He said, what government is saying seems to be a lie. Wah!

 

[Indrajit]

You’re speaking as though this is all theoretical. Minnesota city police have been disbanded. There are numerous other police departments that are in the line to be underfunded.
Trump is the commander in charge and he let it get this far. There is absolutely NO one else to blame here. If he had come out and said, we are going to reform the police department during the initial stages of riots, it would have been different. He’s still keeping mum. Middle America is slowly realizing that his leadership skills are close to Zero. He hasn’t contained law and order. He has exacerbated it. Most of his fan base, the hardcore gun wielding militia style folks are shocked that the national guard has been deployed after 200years in Washington. They always feared the govt and it’s military and trump has brought them right to their doorstep. Ammo sales are going through the roof. Like I said. Not a lot of folks are understanding the ground reality here. Even the most seasoned politicians will find it difficult to navigate these waters in these times. China sure has learnt to play ball.

Council votes are not jokes. They have serious ramifications and can override governors in lots of instances. They can even set the policy for state. Which includes jurisdiction over the State troopers.

Minnesota is a state, Minneapolis is the city. Trump couldn’t do anything from Washington, it’s a joke that Trump could have said anything that the rioting mob would care about. Trump supporters aren’t going to vote the democrats for the most part, ammo sales would go through the roof if there is talk about disbanding the police. Blaming Trump for what happens in Minnesota is a joke, the democrats have run that state for years and they alone are responsible for the police. It is not as if they have a nationally controlled police like India.

I dont know about the value council votes have and if they are subject to court interpretation of their powers but what I do know is that it’s a dumb vote and is as loony as it gets. I also know that Biden has made it clear that defunding the police is not his position. Clearly he doesn’t believe that will go anywhere.

As for the rest, time will tell. Maybe they will disband all police and go back to the old west . Who knows, maybe in a few years, westerns will be back in fashion in Hollywood.

 

[right wing]

The enemies within with some help from outside actively want to show as govt failing and army failing like they did in balakot.
This anyway helps their friends in Beijing.
From the likes of it all,quite evident who is under pressure ..them or us!

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Full power

 

[ladder]

And to address the question, that ITBP is wholesale responsible for LAC in peacetime
please read the publication from Parliament library. (Attached)
Page 2.
Draw your own conclusions.

And before you call it arbitrary, the same is applicable for Indian Navy, inspite of presence of Indian Coast Guard.

In wake of 26/11, the Indian government designated the Indian Navy as the nodal authority responsible for overall maritime security, including coastal and offshore security.

‘Net Security Provider’ Defined: An Analysis of India’s New Maritime Strategy-2015 | Center for International Maritime Security

cimsec.org

 

[muralidon924]

I seriously fail to understand the members' chest beatings on us having lost territory based on write ups,opeds etc mostly by folks who are quoting sources and in case of foreigners these sources r shukla's crying from day one and for others Panags.
These people who went about showing itbp camps as having been either Chinese camps or being occupied were later thrashed by OSINTS across the board.
Till now not a single OSINT has shown any such destruction or occupation of Indian territory,but chest beatings won't stop.
People are blaming govt for tents near finger 4 and saying patrolling was earlier done till 8. Yes it was but do remember they had these roads 20 yrs back and permanent camps at 5,so they had stopped u earlier as well.
Because this govt is not sleeping as many like to feel here,as soon as the tents came up near 4 LAC got hot.
They unlike earlier times dint wait for deployments and that's why we r talking.
And to those folks claiming why Indian OSINTS not showing Indian deployments..@abhijitiyer has clearly stated the reason.
So please be objective and just don't demean your govt and forces at the drop off a hat based on known debunked sources

This guy has been spreading lies from Day 1 without any proofs and if asked is showing already occupied spaces from 1962, even Lt. Gen. HS panang also showing 1962 LAC as invasion.They clearly have an agenda but this kind of reporting is demoralising and misinforming the Army and the public.

 

[Tridev123]

All Chinese action replicates the concepts mentioned in Art of war (Sun Tzu)

They are highly influenced by his thinking. They have grabbed land at various places without even having to fight by simply scaring their opponents. The threat of force rather than actual use of force has served them well.

 

[ladder]

This guy has been spreading lies from Day 1 without any proofs and if asked is showing already occupied spaces from 1962, even Lt. Gen. HS panang also showing 1962 LAC as invasion.They clearly have an agenda but this kind of reporting is demoralising and misinforming the Army and the public.

Compare this to his writing about Raki Nulla incident in 2013, when current opposition parties were in power.

No concessions in Daulat Beg Oldi, say government sources

ajaishukla.blogspot.com

 

[Tridev123]

Bhai, do you beat up everyone who leans on to your car or bike in Parking? You assume they will leave after sometime. It's just pressure tactics by PLA, nothing more.

You handle an escalation with equal force, not disproportionate force, atleast on border where no bullet has been fired since 50 years. We also have interest in keeping LAC conflict free.

The analogy given is not the most appropriate. Their actions are not so innocent.
I suggest that you contact ex or serving military personnel to get an idea of the extent of cumulative land grab by the Chinese over the past 50 years. Yes, no bullet has been fired across for 50 years but we have lost territory. It won't be in thousands of sq kms but would be still significant. Slowly bleeding us. We are forced to make peace with them on their terms. The supposed border line in 1963 and now will be different. The loss is conveniently explained away as differing perceptions of the border. When the land is not ours and is no man's land where is the loss?. This is the narrative given to manage the loss.
If it were the Pakistan border and the Pakis had slowly changed the border lines in their favour all hell would have broken loose. We have different set of yardsticks in dealing with the Pakis as compared to the Chinese.

I agree since the power disparity is large between us and China we need to first build up our strength before confronting them.

But let us not trivialise the actions of the Chinese by comparing it with a simple car issue. The current action by China is a breach of trust and violation of previously agreed confidence building and border management rules arrived at after mutual consultation. They violated agreements. India could have done the same thing but we scrupulously adhered to the rules. Stabbing your opponent in the back is not bravery but cowardice which China did. If all nations disregard signed agreements on border management what will be the result.
A coward has stabbed us in the back. What China has done could have been done by us anytime. They surprised us with their treachery.

 

[Jor_Se_Bolo_PKMKB]

 

[Assassin 2.0]

 

[Mikesingh]

Indian and Chinese commanders had met one-to-one with interpreters for 3 hrs and none from either delegation took part in the discussion across Chushul LAC.

Brigade and battalion commanders will now meet in their respective areas within 10 days at PPs 14, 15, 17, Pangong Tso North, and Chushul. Hot lines will also be established.

 

[Jor_Se_Bolo_PKMKB]

So does de-escalation mean we achieved our strategic objective which was to successfully defend our land and the cheenes effectively failed in theirs?

 

[tarunraju]

So does de-escalation mean we achieved our strategic objective which was to successfully defend our land and the cheenes effectively failed in theirs?

No, it doesn't. By asking Chinese to restore the April status-quo, India defined what constitutes a "victory:" That chicoms fuck off behind F8, and Indians are able to foot-patrol all the way.

Also, by talk of "national dignity," BJP leadership has made it clear that it will not accept a Chinese entrenchment up to F5, even if it leads to hostilities, because that would amount to "losing territory to the Chinese," and will destroy the BJP politically.

The last time a country tried to finger with BJP's political outlook (Pulwama), it got invaded.

 

[IndiaRising]

Bade buzurg keh gaye, never trust a Chinese or a Paki.

 

[tarunraju]

Mainstream media is reporting a disengagement and chicom withdrawal. Could be a chicom ruse.

 

[IndiaRising]

Surprised that they are retreating from Galwan and Gogra but not Pangong Tso. Strategically, wouldn’t those two places be more important than Pangong Tso? @Bhadra @Mikesingh

 

[fire starter]

hmm.