India China LAC & International Border Discussions

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mist_consecutive

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if India & China fight a war
&
even if a single Chinese Air Craft takes off from Paki land....
I want to analyze what would happen to pakis next..

Would Karachi & Lahore survive the next few hours?
Don't want to dampen the spirits, but India will not take on Pakistan directly right now even if they attack us. It will be more of a defensive posture on the western front while handling China on the eastern front, a repeat of what we did in the Bangladesh liberation war.

But make no mistake, in scenario of an all-out Chinese offensive, we will face Pakistan & China attacking as simultaneously on both fronts. They know they got no chance of taking on India individually.
 

Waanar

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F4 gone their way! Only a war can get back F4 or beyond or lose till F2 else it's total surrunder.
And you're intimately familiar with the response the government is planning and have insiders in the MoD, MHA and Cabinet Secretariat?

As I said, let it develop.
If you have something constructive to add, by all means, do so, but stop acting like we've reached the conclusion of the conflict.
Humble request.
 

ARVION

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not so much interested in Rafale as a bomber aircraft(for now) but rather as a ELINT grabber.

Does anyone have any info on ELINT capabilities of Indian rafales?
SPECTRA – internal Electronic Warfare suite
It has off-boresight capabilities (it can be shot at 50 Km from the target at medium altitude and 15 Km of the target during very low penetration flight). Using it, a Rafale is able to destroy six different ground targets across a wide area simultaneously, SPECTRA -Self-Protection Equipment to Counter Threats for Rafale Aircraft. Jointly developed by THALES and MBDA, the SPECTRA internal “Electronic Warfare” (EW) system is the cornerstone of the RAFALE’s outstanding survivability against the latest airborne and ground threats. It is fully integrated with other systems in the aircraft, and it provides a multi-spectral threat warning capability against hostile radars, missiles and lasers.

The SPECTRA system carries out reliable long-range detection, identification and localization of threats, allowing the pilot to instantly select the most effective defensive measures based on combinations of radar jamming, infrared or radar decoying and evasive maneuvers. The angular localization performance of the SPECTRA sensors makes it possible to accurately locate ground threats in order to avoid them, or to target them for destruction with precision guided munitions. Additionally, SPECTRA fulfils new functions in a combat aircraft, while significantly participating in the determination of the aircraft's tactical situation, and providing the crew with operational advantage by performing accurate threat location. By virtue of its fully passive situational awareness capability, SPECTRA are a major contributor to the low observability concept of Rafale. SPECTRA gives Rafale firing solution with 1* precision at 200 km.The SPECTRA system consists of two infrared missile warning sensors (Détecteur de Départ Missile Nouvelle Génération). A new generation missile warning system (DDM NG) is currently being developed by MBDA. DDM NG incorporates a new infrared array detector which enhances performance with regard to the range at which a missile firing will be detected (with two sensors, each equipped with a fish-eye lens, DDM NG provides a spherical field of view around the aircraft). The DDM-NG also offers improved rejection of false alarms and gives an angular localization capability which will be compatible with the future use of Directional Infrared Counter Measures (DIRCM). DDM-NG has an advanced Missile Warning System covering most of the sphere around the aircraft. In particular it provides the capability to detect Manpad missiles by detecting their burning engines. DDM-NG is a passive, imaging infrared Missile Warning System using the latest advances in sensor technology and processing algorithms. The DDM-NG system’s long detection range, spherical field of view and advanced software provides the highest level of performance.
  • Programmable threat libaries
  • ELINT/SIGINT functions
  • Fully fused with other on- & offboard sensor data
RWR/ESM

  • Digital receivers
  • 3 antennas with 120° azimuth coverage each located on the intakes and fin tip pod, plus additional antennas on the wing tips
  • Interferometry (azimuth & elevation) with stated <1 deg bearing accuracy
  • 2-40 GHz frequency coverage (some sources suggest lower end coverage ~200 MHz)
  • geolocation of emitters
  • ~250 km detection range (dependent on the emitter)
  • Target coordination generation for weapons employment

DECM


  • 3 AESA antennas on the fin root and canard roots
  • DRFM based
  • Pencil thin jamming beams
  • offensive, defensive and stealthy modes


DDM (Détecteur infrarouge de Départ de Missiles) - MLD
  • 2 mid-wave IIR sensors on the fin tip pod sides (360 deg azimuth coverage)
DAL (Detecteur d?Alerte Laser) - LWR
  • 3 sensors on the front fuselage sides and the rear of the SPECTRA fin tip pod
Decoy dispensers
  • 4 vertical firing flare/decoy dispensers on the top of the fuselage near the wing trailing edges and 2 chaff dispensers on the rear fuselage sides behind the wings


Data from all the sensor suites are fused and processed by a central computer, which prioritizes and activates the relevant countermeasures, based upon comparison between the received signals and an onboard threat library. RF jamming is transmitted through active phased array antennas. Employment of this advanced technology allows the jamming signal to be concentrated in the sector where it is needed, not only increasing its effectiveness, but also reducing the probability of intercept by the adversary’s own sensors. In addition to RF jammers, the SPECTRA system incorporates mechanical countermeasures for the dispensing of chaff and decoys that are effective in either electromagnetic or infrared domains. In addition to protecting the Rafale, SPECTRA also has a valuable offensive function. Fused data from the sensors provides threat tracks in the weapon system, which can be displayed in the cockpit. These tracks can be used for targeting in the defense suppression role. Additionally, the data product from the SPECTRA sensors is of very high quality, so that the system can be used for the gathering of Elint (electronic intelligence). Pop-up threats can be compared against the threat library, which can be updated with new information. The product of SPECTRA is also recorded and can be downloaded upon the aircraft’s return to base for more detailed analysis in the ground-based support centre. In this way master threat libraries can be updated, and revised data files produced for subsequent missions.
 

Absolut_Vodka

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Guys, help me understand something.

So the airfields in Tibet are ill-conducive to taking off with full payload. So, what if Chinese jets took off from the closest airstrip that lets them take off with full armaments, and along with a mid air tanker. The tanker pumps fuel into them over Tibet, or right before entering engagement territory, and then lands on some Tibetan airstrip. They don't have the fuel loaded into them so they can take off and return to its base in plains.

The fighters however have full fuel, as well as full weapons load. Is this what the Chinese are aiming for?
Tankers won't operate that close to India during hostilities as they can easily be taken out by A2A missiles or LR-SAM. So this scenario might work in initial shock but it can't be rerun. Once IAF goes weapons free, such juicy targets will prefer to stay more than 200 km away.

Besides that now PLAAF has to account for Barak 8ER, which is as lethal as s-400. Himalayan belt greatly limits PLA capabilities.
 

Jay99

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if India & China fight a war
&
even if a single Chinese Air Craft takes off from Paki land....
I want to analyze what would happen to pakis next..

Would Karachi & Lahore survive the next few hours?
I can definitely say baluchistan will become independent country
 

prasadr14

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Neheru did nt dhoti shivered and comming under preassure of opposition and others asked army throw away china .... how do we view him.. There is much more than shallow ego nd modi's political career is at stake .. Defeat is nt a option if india wants 2 stand out in 21st century .. God forbid if we r nt prepared nd start showing agression we might loose much more than fingers..
Xitler shat himself after learning 120+ chinese soldiers got massacred couple of weeks back..
Is his health ok now?
 

mist_consecutive

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Chinese are completely unaware of the geography.
These Chinese are idiots of the highest order. They have absolutely no experience in fighting Himalayas & high altitude.
Cramping thousands of equipment and troops in the narrow Galwan valley was nothing short of suicide in these coming Monsoon months. Flash floods due to heavy rain & cloudbursts, and we will see these batmunchers body floating down the Shyok.
Even if nature does not take out these idiots, dropping high-payload bombs in the narrow valley will mean the shockwaves will travel long distances and incapacitate Chinese soldiers, if not kill them.
 

Anathema

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India should now recognize Taiwan. Its best the solution. Gives a very straight message. If you throw a stone then you get a stone thrown at you too.:truestory:
This is the problem of gaining knowledge through whatsapp and twitter ! Its always half baked and in some cases outright false.

India at the present moment cannot recognize Taiwan.
Why ? Because Taiwan considers itself as original China. Essentially when the rebels broke away from main land - they established Taiwan on the pretext that mainland was party driven country and that Taiwan represented the true Chinese culture and traditions.
Why is that important ?
Taiwanese claims on Indian land is no different that Chinese claims on Indian land. Even Taiwan claims Arunachal Pradesh to be part of the original China. Till atleast 15-20 years back their envoy used to main the same.

So if we were to recognize Taiwan , essentially it means we are legitimizing claims on our territory. The only way we can recognize Taiwan is if it voluntarily stops making these claims.

Indian diplomats are very good - if India has not moved on a particular direction then there will be some reason.
 

fire starter

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These Chinese are idiots of the highest order. They have absolutely no experience in fighting Himalayas & high altitude.
Cramping thousands of equipment and troops in the narrow Galwan valley was nothing short of suicide in these coming Monsoon months. Flash floods due to heavy rain & cloudbursts, and we will see these batmunchers body floating down the Shyok.
Even if nature does not take out these idiots, dropping high-payload bombs in the narrow valley will mean the shockwaves will travel long distances and incapacitate Chinese soldiers, if not kill them.
But But... OSINT keep posting about heavy Chinese presence in galwan valley and unawared people start crying that why we don't have same presence there.
 

garg_bharat

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Don't want to dampen the spirits, but India will not take on Pakistan directly right now even if they attack us. It will be more of a defensive posture on the western front while handling China on the eastern front, a repeat of what we did in the Bangladesh liberation war.

But make no mistake, in scenario of an all-out Chinese offensive, we will face Pakistan & China attacking as simultaneously on both fronts. They know they got no chance of taking on India individually.
I am not sure what you mean. India will have to take out important military targets in Pakistan, which may be located in depth.

A typical border skirmish is very different.
 

Abhijeet Dey

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These Chinese are idiots of the highest order. They have absolutely no experience in fighting Himalayas & high altitude.
Cramping thousands of equipment and troops in the narrow Galwan valley was nothing short of suicide in these coming Monsoon months. Flash floods due to heavy rain & cloudbursts, and we will see these batmunchers body floating down the Shyok.
Even if nature does not take out these idiots, dropping high-payload bombs in the narrow valley will mean the shockwaves will travel long distances and incapacitate Chinese soldiers, if not kill them.
OPERATION WHITE WASH :megusta:


 

ezsasa

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RUMINT how? Col. Sir is posting from his account.
These OSINT are good for nothing.
now this is a good test for neutrality of foreign OSINT (SAT imagery experts) accounts. whether the foreign OSINT chaps who were so intent on proving there are Chinese tents At PP14 will show the same level of interest in exploring this point.
 

ladder

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So if we were to recognize Taiwan , essentially it means we are legitimizing claims on our territory. The only way we can recognize Taiwan is if it voluntarily stops making these claims.
Does our recognition of PRC aka the CCP that rules mainland automatically means we recognize and legitimize their claim over Aksai Chin and Arunachal Pradesh.
Don't we recognize Pakistan as sovereign power even though it claims whole of Kashmir?
And should we derecognize Nepal due to contesting claim over Kalapani et al.?
 
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