India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[LETHALFORCE]

There bombers are useless so as long our fighter jets are active. Bombers only work in uncontested airspace.

Missile are damaging but they don't win wars. Ultimately if could move more men cutting their supply line we will win.

Tibet is to harsh a climate and topography to have a mechanized war it will ultimately
be a ground war and the better supply lines will win.(india)

 

[Bhadra]

Timely troop deployment averted deeper incursions by Chinese Army in Galwan Nala area – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

Source :- ANI

58 years after 1962 , Two front war is an inevitable we all know , Two nuclear capable enemies , we did almost nothing rather than Chest thumbing

Who says we did nothing...
We have built CAPF from ten odd battalions to 400 plus battalions.... one Director level officers to twenty DGS over 200 IGs and 1000 DIGs... such a formidable force for "Border Management"

We have managed to isolate our Armed Forces much more than 1962 and pushed them into a corner in South Block, pushing them out of it to Sena Bhavan and now further pushing them away to Delhi Cantt...

That is very significant progress..

The Progress has been so much that today no one is ready to give his daughter in marriage to an Army Officer... all run after Police inspectors. Do not talk of IPS as they are beyond reach and a dream.....

some cultures never improve..

 

[LETHALFORCE]

India signed treaty with soviet union in midst of war to nuetral USA power.

If a war happens with china a treaty with USA now may follow on same lines.

China must give up on pok and pakistan if it wants India to keep others out of equation.

The have no intentions of giving up their position they have included nepal it their
expansion. I think a formal alliance and treaty with USA is long overdue. Russia is
in no way a ally from the cold war days, they will always choose china over India and
China knows this.

 

[IndianHawk]

The have no intentions of giving up their position they have included nepal it their
expansion. I think a formal alliance and treat with USA is long overdue. Russia is
in no way a ally from the cold war days, they will always choose china over India and
China knows this.

Nepal is playing both sides but ultimately it's too dependent on India . China has negligible connectivity with Nepal and that too is very expensive.

We won't enter treaty with USA unless we face a full war with china . In localized conflict in tibet we will win absolutely. And if it becomes full fledged two front war then we might go for treaty with USA.

But these are far fethched scenario.

Chinese can't fight Taiwan they won't dare fight India . They were probing and found themselves out of depth again. Anoher doklam and chinese will be back to whining

" India is not like before too aggressive now wha what"

 

[Bhadra]

Tibet is to harsh a climate and topography to have a mechanized war it will ultimately
be a ground war and the better supply lines will win.(india)

Give me an Mechanised Brigade at Lipulekh and I will Churn entire Western Tibet ...

Hummm....

 

[Karthi]

There has been big hue and cry here abut Lt Gen Panag writing a hit piece.
This piece is however written by ANI, who are neutral if not pro-govt.
The main points highlighted are :

* Chinese Army started building up its troops along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in the Galwan Nala area in the first week of May, (his is now about the end of May.... OK . When was Army Informed about it ?? when did Army decide to take over LAC here from ITBP or why the LAC was not handed over to Army?). Were HQ NE Frontier Leh and Army Corps there sleeping ??

* The Galwan Nullaha post was reinforced in time. Did the Army troops from 114 Brigade reinforce ITBP or ITBP rushed their own troops?

* Chinese troops walked into the Galwan Nala area from their road head 17 km from the Indian post KM120 ( The Chinese came from about 100 km away from the Exercise Area and then walked for 17 Km (say about five hours, if a brigade strength then take seven hours easily) - was any intelligence available on Chinese move? If not -then why not?? Who will face the axe ?? Army ultimately ?? But why ?? All those who were responsible for advance warning should be hung by pole and put in front of Galwan post as the practice target....

* Sources said that the Chinese have been feeling threatened by the road infrastructure being built by the Indian side in the DBO area in the last two to three years which have started showing results now.
(If the Galwan bridge was felt to be sensitive where Chinese were intruding for last two years - then why did ITBP not deploy into Galwan Nallaha in sufficient strength to provide depth to the bridge and protect it? Did Army / BRO tell ITBP to do that since ITBP is the force responsible for LAC management?

* The Chinese have intruded up to finger 4, that is quite an advance and in an area where there are hundreds of tents pitched for tourism and ITBP must have built a guest house for their VIPs and relatives of IGs and DG coming from Leh and Delhi. There can not be any intelligence failure there. I am sure some SB Jassos and IB Jassos definetly must be sitting near their heaters smoking Cigars and gulping whisky. with may be some foreigner guest, being a tourist resort...

Why the forces have failed to react in time and thwart intrusion...

What is this word "Border Mangement" coined by MHA and Security mendarins mean ? Are they managing the border to be handed over to PLA ?? For the time being that is what it appears to be..

MODI GUSSE MEN HAI ... AUR WO GUSSA JAYAZ HAI ? BATAO WO KAUN HAI JISKI GARDAN PAKADI JAYE.... BATAO

I was sleepless and always in thinking about this border , it's all over my head , I even failed to understand what you wrote. Whats our Spy satellite's doing , what's RAW doing , What was our Military Babus doing I don't know . Here jihadis and commies including Indians celebrating Chinese captured Indian land . everyone is speculating things nobody knows the reality , the provocation may be India eyeing on Gilgit Baltistan , China trying to keep busy Indian army in other places.

 

[nrj]

As far as border dispute or unilateral aggression goes, its in our best interest to keep the issue strictly bilateral.

India has & must have bona fide relation with China unaltered by other parties.

Govt did right thing to deny involvement of USA/Trump in this matter.

And it'll be received well by China, paving way for de-escalation.

This Govt so far has been on point in managing relations with China, credit where its due.

Both parties equally need each other for decades to come, and they do recognize this fact.

All this war hysteria is a good academic exercise.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

We won't enter treaty with USA unless we face a full war with china . In localized conflict in tibet we will win absolutely. And if it becomes full fledged two front war then we might go for treaty with USA.

why wait for a war that will destroy India's economy to have the treaty? A treaty will prevent a war.
A treaty is also needed with Japan. Any war China has with India is too inflict economic damage on
India. It will put India back economically decades.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Give me an Mechanised Brigade at Lipulekh and I will Churn entire Western Tibet ...

Hummm....

At 17,000 feet mechanized brigades will have a rough time.I think India better
trained to handle this climate??

 

[Karthi]

Who says we did nothing...
We have built CAPF from ten odd battalions to 400 plus battalions.... one Director level officers to twenty DGS over 200 IGs and 1000 DIGs... such a formidable force for "Border Management"

We have managed to isolate our Armed Forces much more than 1962 and pushed them into a corner in South Block, pushing them out of it to Sena Bhavan and now further pushing them away to Delhi Cantt...

That is very significant progress..

The Progress has been so much that today no one is ready to give his daughter in marriage to an Army Officer... all run after Police inspectors. Do not talk of IPS as they are beyond reach and a dream.....

some cultures never improve..

I have shared something previously

At 17,000 feet mechanized brigades will have a rough time.

The temperature at Ladakh is -20 C in 17000 feet we can't even touch metal parts without protection . We are on high ground s but I don't know is it an advantage or disadvantage

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I have shared something previously
The temperature at Ladakh is -20 C in 17000 feet we can't even touch metal parts without protection . We are on high ground s but I don't know is it an advantage or disadvantage

It is a supply and logistic nightmare.

 

[Gandaberunda]

why wait for a war that will destroy India's economy to have the treaty? A treaty will prevent a war.
A treaty is also needed with Japan. Any war China has with India is too inflict economic damage on
India. It will put India back economically decades.

And they will also end up with us back economically.... War is a two way street

 

[Karthi]

It is a supply and logistic nightmare.

We should make the terrain into our favour Tunnels and underground facilities , Tibet is comparatively less challenging than Indian side .If we can develop a network of tunnels and Road Rail networks it will certainly give us a huge advantage

 

[Niks_12]

https://indianexpress.com/article/i...te-picks-up-chinese-armour-artillery-6432294/

As Delhi and Beijing turn to their working mechanism at the level of diplomats to reduce military tensions along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in eastern Ladakh, there’s evidence of the Chinese having deployed towed artillery and mechanised elements on their side of the LAC opposite the Galwan valley.

Highly placed sources told The Indian Express that a detailed analysis of satellite images has shown extensive deployment of towed artillery and mechanised elements on the Chinese side, bringing Indian deployments within striking distance.

Satellite images also show the presence of at least 16 tanks with a mix of infantry combat vehicles, though camouflaged. Flatbed trucks, excavator machines, dumper trucks too have been identified in the imagery, sources said, adding that these suggest permanent defences are being prepared by the Chinese in the area.


“Bunkers, troops on ground and machine gun emplacements can also be seen which may also show that the Chinese have been anticipating an offensive and have made defensive positions too,” sources said.

“Suitable” counter-deployments, sources said, have also been done on the Indian side of the LAC to neutralise any advantage that the Chinese may accrue due to the deployments they have done in depth.

Also read | Chinese build-up will be matched, says NSAB member

At Pangong Tso, where Chinese and Indian troops came to blows on May 5-6, the Indian side, sources said, has been concerned about the Chinese occupation of a place called Foxhole Point, the southern-most point on the northern banks of the lake. This is located between Finger 3 and Finger 4, giving the Chinese an advantage in area domination.

As reported by The Indian Express, Chinese forces have moved into Indian territory by crossing the LAC at some places in eastern Ladakh: in the Pangong Tso area, and at three separate locations in the Hot Springs sector.

The perception of the two sides about the LAC has been different at Pangong Tso, leading to tensions and disputes on the lake and on the northern banks. But the locations that saw Chinese incursions in Hot Springs – Gogra, Patrolling Point-14, PP-15 – have not been disputed so far, and they have come in 2-3 km ahead of the LAC.

The Indian side is also concerned about the threat posed to the strategic Darbuk-Shyok-Daulat Beg Oldie (DSDBO) road by the Chinese deployment, opposite the Galwan river on its side of the LAC. The 255-km road was thrown open last year by Defence Minister Rajnath Singh who inaugurated a 1400-feet bridge on Shyok river to the north of this area.

Also read | Experts Explain: What triggered the recent China border moves?

Ladakh Autonomous Hill Development Council Executive Councillor (Education) Konchok Stanzin said: “While it is difficult to say how many Chinese troops have intruded inside Indian territory in Pangong Tso area, they are camping in Four Finger and Green Top areas also, apart from Patrolling Point 14-15.’’

Stanzin represents Chushul constituency in Leh district. “People in a number of villages like Merak, Lukung, Urung, Man, Spangmik and Kakstel along the Pangong lake are worried over the Chinese intrusions. I have come to reassure people in the villages,’’ he said.

The Indian Army has not commented on the Chinese incursions, but for a statement denying reports that an Indian patrol had been detained by the Chinese soldiers last week. It has, however, acknowledged that soldiers from both sides clashed on the night of May 5/6 in Pangong Tso and on May 9 at Naku La in Sikkim.


On Wednesday, the Chinese Foreign Ministry struck a conciliatory tone, saying the “border area situation is overall stable and controllable”. Sun Weidong, Beijing’s envoy to Delhi, too said: “We should never allow our differences to shadow the overall development of our relations… We should gradually seek understanding through communication and constantly resolve differences.”

The Indian establishment is still waiting for signs of any de-escalation by the Chinese in eastern Ladakh.

“The next 72 hours are crucial in which we have to watch for any reduction in the soldiers and equipment from the Chinese side. So far (as on Thursday afternoon), there has been no change in their deployment. Our side also remains on high alert, we haven’t changed anything either,” an official told The Indian Express.

“The progress so far has been achieved at diplomatic levels in Beijing. Both the sides are talking, but we are holding our military position. That has not changed,” the official said.

On the ground situation in the Galwan valley area, another official said: “The situation is presently at a standstill and both sides are dug-in, awaiting the next move from the opposite side.”

 

[LETHALFORCE]

We should make the terrain into our favour Tunnels and underground facilities , Tibet is comparatively less challenging than Indian side .If we can develop a network of tunnels and Road Rail networks it will certainly give us a huge advantage

I am sure lot of things have been done.

Indian Agni missiles deployed in tunnels on Chinese border

India has built atleast 2 tunnels in mountains for storage of Agni Intermediate Range Ballastic Missile (IRBM). It was revealed by Mr. Bhara...

www.mediavigil.org

Indian Agni missiles deployed in tunnels on Chinese border

 

[Lancer]

JFK was offering whatever weaponry needed at that time so it was more than rhetoric. JFK
wanted an anti soviet/communism block in southeast asia . But Nehru sided with the communists.

When Nehru rejected Pakistan's offer of 'joint defence' pact against China

Ayub Khan was wary of expansionism by Communist China

www.theweek.in

When Nehru rejected Pakistan's offer of 'joint defence' pact against China

I have also read before that part of the reason China stopped & pulled back, somewhat abruptly in 1962 - is because JFK was implicitly threatening the use of nuclear weapons (these were times when the US was ready to go to any lengths to defeat Communism anywhere and everywhere in the world).

Either way, after the 1962 war, India had a lot of secret collaboration with the CIA, when it came to China.

 

[Bhadra]

Nobody respects victims. Nobody would respect a 1.3 billion-strong nation playing victim with so much strategic depth left untapped.

I appreciate your sentiments ,,, but

Then stop outsourcing your National Security to USA, China or USSR. Stand on your sturdy feet rather than on weak trembling, second rung Police Forces who can easily be pushed over.... How can we tolerate the fact the Army is kept away from India = China-LAC management. At least put those forces under come the Army. Why is Modi government continuing with same anti Army culture in national Security setup.

We are the world's 4th most powerful military, next only to the US, China, and Russia; and we should start playing the part.

No one has such a vast undemarcated disputed land border and such huge coastline with seven near hostile neighboring countries. This so-called huge Army is our compulsion and not a choice. India is being challenged even by pennies like Nepal in spite of such vast Army? It is not Army's fault but the fault does lie somewhere else.

Indira Gandhi put aside vasudaiva-kutum-bunkum and picked up the sword. She pulled off the largest territorial liberation after WWII. Xi Jinping is trying to be the next Mao (including humiliating India to destroy its spirit for the next 50 years).

It's time Modi at least tries to be the next Indira, or he does not deserve a clear mandate.

And what happened just after war? Manekshaw was humiliated, all those generals who proved their military acumen were retired and not promoted. Cronies put in place and gains deliberately lost on the table as Armed Forces never considered to have a state is such a deal..

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I have also read before that part of the reason China stopped & pulled back, somewhat abruptly in 1962 - is because JFK was implicitly threatening the use of nuclear weapons (these were times when the US was ready to go to any lengths to defeat Communism anywhere and everywhere in the world).

Either way, after the 1962 war, India had a lot of secret collaboration with the CIA, when it came to China.

My mother use to tell me stories of Kennedy when I was very young she told me about this. Kennedy
had sent billions in aid to India.

India and the Kennedy years

India and the Kennedy years: How Washington and New Delhi came close to a clinch - Times of India

US News: Largely unsung and all by forgotten in New Delhi, John F Kennedy came to India’s help when it was receiving a drubbing from China in 1962.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

 

[Bhadra]

I have also read before that part of the reason China stopped & pulled back, somewhat abruptly in 1962 - is because JFK was implicitly threatening the use of nuclear weapons (these were times when the US was ready to go to any lengths to defeat Communism anywhere and everywhere in the world).

Either way, after the 1962 war, India had a lot of secret collaboration with the CIA, when it came to China.

It appears you are not aware of a prevalent theory that USA deliberately got India entangled with China by CIA activities conducted in Tibet from India because of Nehru's proximity with USSR and at a time when the USA was working hard to befriend China. USA was building a clandestine friendship with China via Pakistan...

 

[lcafanboy]

Just as Kashmir was discussed in a closed door session a year back on chenes behest in UNSC , Hongkong will be discussed same way in UNSC today .

Karma