India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[garg_bharat]

Ajai Shukla and company make a constant mistake (because of their brainwashed minds) that India has a choice.

I cannot comment on Nehru and I think it is wrong to comment because all the circumstances are not clear to anybody which led to a particular decision by Nehru.

Ajai Shukla is trying to be too smart.

These Indian fools are the reason of Chinese aggressiveness. China thinks it has a lot of supporters in India.

 

[Indrajit]

One of the things that comes out clearly is that we have almost no strategic thinking in our political leadership and the government in general. We removed art 370, made noises about taking back PoK including GB but applied no thought to what probable responses might be, even if those things were only going to be cited as an excuse for any confrontation. Why were these not flagged up by other agencies not involved in the politics of the decisions (maybe they were but putting out what is known in public domain) and what kind of thinking allows us to be caught out like this....the UPA destroyed a chance at modernisation of the military when the economy was In a good shape but that doesn’t excuse this government which apart from knee jerk emergency acquisitions, has done almost nothing towards that end.

Deng Xaioping advised his colleagues to keep a low profile of China for decades till it became strong. Our leaders have no such vision but should atleast be able to see potential dangers sitting right in front of you. It was stupid to assume that our economic hafta we paid as trade surplus would somehow keep China quiet when Modi went about his business.

Building border infrastructure, and this government has done splendidly on that score, is not a substitute for building up capabilities. The infrastructure is a means for us to deliver our capabilities not a substitute .

 

[Akula]

They landed 4 rovers on an asteriod , successfully picked up rock samples and will carry it back to earth later this year .

By the time China completes J - 20 , these fuckers would be operating mechas and orbital cannons.

If Japan has plans to amend it's constitution they must amend it. Their forces may be defensive on paper but in reality can be offensive.

 

[Waanar]

Sir does this action include ,making alliances with US for a possible two front war

I'm sure it's on the cards. US and Indian interests are aligned here, for the most part. Quad alliance does reflect that but I'm sure there's more happening than just that.
Any alliance with US has incredibly far reaching cosnequences, both negative and positive. One thing I think will happen is the intel in our theatre will not just be USA's but rather funneled through USA by five eyes as well.
Rather interesting to think about.

 

[AmitG]

One of the things that comes out clearly is that we have almost no strategic thinking in our political leadership and the government in general. We removed art 370, made noises about taking back PoK including GB but applied no thought to what probable responses might be, even if those things were only going to be cited as an excuse for any confrontation. Why were these not flagged up by other agencies not involved in the politics of the decisions (maybe they were but putting out what is known in public domain) and what kind of thinking allows us to be caught out like this....the UPA destroyed a chance at modernisation of the military when the economy was In a good shape but that doesn’t excuse this government which apart from knee jerk emergency acquisitions, has done almost nothing towards that end.

Deng Xaioping advised his colleagues to keep a low profile of China for decades till it became strong. Our leaders have no such vision but should atleast be able to see potential dangers sitting right in front of you. It was stupid to assume that our economic hafta we paid as trade surplus would somehow keep China quiet when Modi went about his business.

Building border infrastructure, and this government has done splendidly on that score, is not a substitute for building up capabilities. The infrastructure is a means for us to deliver our capabilities not a substitute .

Exactly. I have been saying this all along. To many loudmouths in this govt and too much chest thumping. They think they are still in the opposition. The idea should be to quitely build up capability and the economy. The Chinese have kept quite for years while they did that. No one doubts the fighting ability and bravery of our soldiers but let’s face it , our forces are poorly armed and there are critical gaps in our capabilities. On top of that our focus has been Pakistan centric and we have been reactive And appeasing on the Chinese front. Having said that we were going to have to face the Chinese sooner than later. We just took our eye of the ball inspite of all warning signals.

 

[Rakthabeeja]

That includes Modi who ran that policy for the last 6 years. In a way, this is good. It’s a wake up call to those who were stupid enough to believe the economic partnership nonsense. China has shown the contempt they have, towards India, towards Modi and towards the $60 billion surplus we paid to them. Even hafta extortionists show more respect.

I mean, no offense but what policy or a position GOI has taken that you thought was in favour of china, I mean I always thought that the two leaders mutual visit which resulted in nothing was just to buy time and keep the pretense going

I was just reading the review of the book uneasy neighbors by ram Madhav in daily pioneer in there I found a sun tzu quote

[Ram Madhav dwells at length in explaining the basis of Chinese strategic thinking from the days of Sun Tzu (544-496 BC). Even today, Sun Tzu’s “Art of war” constitutes the core of Chinese strategic thinking. Mao was, after all, following Sun Tzu’s advice: “The Way of War is a way of Deception. Feign inability when deploying troops. When far, appear near. If the enemy is strong avoid him. Attack when he is unprepared. Appear when you are unexpected]

Here is the article if you're interested

India's Chinese unease

Dailypioneer.com: Leading News paper

www.dailypioneer.com

 

[Akula]

I was buying One Plus 8 pro For Myself But Due to Chinese boycott i convince My Wife for I phone 11 pro

Sir, kidney kitne mein bikki.

 

[AmitG]

I remember Nitin Gokhale's guest Col. Dinny saying that Chinese buildup on heights of Finger 4 to 8 in Pangong Lake is not possible and Nitin supported that but within a couple of weeks Nathan Ruser posted updated images of numerous chinese postions on those same heights.

Nitin never aplogized for or admitted that huge goof up.

So I no longer trust him just like I do not trust Shukla. Both have agendas IMO.

I wonder why he is putting his rep on the line pushing a false narrative in the age of the internet.

 

[Indrajit]

I mean, no offense but what policy or a position GOI has taken that you thought was in favour of china, I mean I always thought that the two leaders mutual visit which resulted in nothing was just to buy time and keep the pretense going

I was just reading the review of the book uneasy neighbors by ram Madhav in daily pioneer in there I found a sun tzu quote

[Ram Madhav dwells at length in explaining the basis of Chinese strategic thinking from the days of Sun Tzu (544-496 BC). Even today, Sun Tzu’s “Art of war” constitutes the core of Chinese strategic thinking. Mao was, after all, following Sun Tzu’s advice: “The Way of War is a way of Deception. Feign inability when deploying troops. When far, appear near. If the enemy is strong avoid him. Attack when he is unprepared. Appear when you are unexpected]

Here is the article if you're interested

India's Chinese unease

Dailypioneer.com: Leading News paper

www.dailypioneer.com

You make a valid point in saying that pretence as a means of buying time is valid, even necessary. I agree completely. You should however not forget you are buying time and sit doing nothing with the time you have bought. We have been paying an trade hafta to the Chinese in the mistaken belief that it will somehow buy peace. Again not a bad strategy as a means to buy time as you suggest but not an end in itself. I have no qualms if Modi was buying time by wooing Xi Jinping but not using that bought time to beef up your strength was a very poor choice.

 

[AmitG]

S300 was supposed to be state of the art and unbeatable but Israel has effectively countered S300 in Syria . They fly missions with F16 there .

I wonder how much of s400 effectiveness is marketing bullshit and how much is real .

Well if there is a weakness the Americans and specially the Israeli’s must have spotted it. Would they share it with India is another question.

 

[AmitG]

S Swamy was saying the other day that the Russians persuaded India to vacate the heights in Galwan. I would take it that he means before the clash. Why are even trusting the Russians when it comes to China. They are too much into the Chinese camp.

 

[Sehwag213]

S Swamy was saying the other day that the Russians persuaded India to vacate the heights in Galwan. I would take it that he means before the clash. Why are even trusting the Russians when it comes to China. They are too much into the Chinese camp.

Maybe we are giving a face saving to Xi Jinping for withdrawal.
If China returns now with nothing to show and 30 dead soldiers, it would be embarrassment for them.
So it is in the best interest of both the parties.

 

[dude00720]

You make a valid point in saying that pretence as a means of buying time is valid, even necessary. I agree completely. You should however not forget you are buying time and sit doing nothing with the time you have bought. We have been paying an trade hafta to the Chinese in the mistaken belief that it will somehow buy peace. Again not a bad strategy as a means to buy time as you suggest but not an end in itself. I have no qualms if Modi was buying time by wooing Xi Jinping but not using that bought time to beef up your strength was a very poor choice.

My personal view is that, it is no coincidence that china ia aggravating matters now. In 1 years time, we will have near squadron of rafales and the Tejas MK1A plans will be in full swing. Astra will be operational and MWF will be in progress. I think chinese have sources which tell them we are on the verge of an indigenisation revolution in defence. They somehow want to curb that.

China hopes to beat us down in this period and create turmoil in the country. There has never been trust for china.

It is just that, We have been trapped , since, we did not invest in silicon fabrication units in India which is the biggest contributor to the import deficit. The day we have a fab in India and a defense industry, we can easily replace china in most things worldwide.

Let us not give too much importance to the Wuhan and chennai summits. They were means to exchange pleasantries. Nothing concrete ever came out of this.

Chinese investment in India was never a favour. They came because, there was a market. Someone else will easily come in their place .

 

[Indrajit]

Exactly. I have been saying this all along. To many loudmouths in this govt and too much chest thumping. They think they are still in the opposition. The idea should be to quitely build up capability and the economy. The Chinese have kept quite for years while they did that. No one doubts the fighting ability and bravery of our soldiers but let’s face it , our forces are poorly armed and there are critical gaps in our capabilities. On top of that our focus has been Pakistan centric and we have been reactive And appeasing on the Chinese front. Having said that we were going to have to face the Chinese sooner than later. We just took our eye of the ball inspite of all warning signals.

Not with any intention to give offence but I’m routinely suspicious of any poster who has recently joined and pushes a line critical of the government/armed forces.

 

[LondonParisTokyo]

It's sad. Astra is a good missile but because it is "unproven" India goes with Russia. AGAIN. When do missiles prove themselves? In war!

 

[garg_bharat]

One of the things that comes out clearly is that we have almost no strategic thinking in our political leadership and the government in general. We removed art 370, made noises about taking back PoK including GB but applied no thought to what probable responses might be, even if those things were only going to be cited as an excuse for any confrontation. Why were these not flagged up by other agencies not involved in the politics of the decisions (maybe they were but putting out what is known in public domain) and what kind of thinking allows us to be caught out like this....the UPA destroyed a chance at modernisation of the military when the economy was In a good shape but that doesn’t excuse this government which apart from knee jerk emergency acquisitions, has done almost nothing towards that end.

Deng Xaioping advised his colleagues to keep a low profile of China for decades till it became strong. Our leaders have no such vision but should atleast be able to see potential dangers sitting right in front of you. It was stupid to assume that our economic hafta we paid as trade surplus would somehow keep China quiet when Modi went about his business.

Building border infrastructure, and this government has done splendidly on that score, is not a substitute for building up capabilities. The infrastructure is a means for us to deliver our capabilities not a substitute .

Each politician is taking a decision based on circumstance.

This is the reason why I say criticizing Nehru for 1962 is wrong.

Modi is taking decisions based on circumstances now.

It is easy to criticize but how many people step up to take action. Results come from actions, not talk.

I fully support GOI's decisions in Kashmir. The blowback from China was expected. This is why a lot of things have been done under the radar.

You are too influenced by media who are perennially critical of this government because of either ideology or political affiliation.

Just be patient and let the government do it's job.

 

[utubekhiladi]

Any chance that either few of those mig21 bis or mig 27 still operational and air worthy

 

[patriots]

China is moving s400 to Ladakh................
People s are crying in twitter....that balance shifted towards china..........hope iaf had its plan

 

[utubekhiladi]

China is moving s400 to Ladakh................
People s are crying in twitter....that balance shifted towards china..........hope iaf had its plan

We discussed about it earlier on this thread. Even though its a threat, but it's effectiveness is questionable near hilly terrain such as ladakh.

Plus, chinse s400 have less range then our version.

IAF have plan A, plan B, plan C ... all the way upto plan Z.. to counter or neutralize the threat.

 

[garg_bharat]

My personal view is that, it is no coincidence that china ia aggravating matters now. In 1 years time, we will have near squadron of rafales and the Tejas MK1A plans will be in full swing. Astra will be operational and MWF will be in progress. I think chinese have sources which tell them we are on the verge of an indigenisation revolution in defence. They somehow want to curb that.

China hopes to beat us down in this period and create turmoil in the country. There has never been trust for china.

It is just that, We have been trapped , since, we did not invest in silicon fabrication units in India which is the biggest contributor to the import deficit. The day we have a fab in India and a defense industry, we can easily replace china in most things worldwide.

Let us not give too much importance to the Wuhan and chennai summits. They were means to exchange pleasantries. Nothing concrete ever came out of this.

Chinese investment in India was never a favour. They came because, there was a market. Someone else will easily come in their place .

This is the reason allies are important. Else someone will always strike you when you are weak.

India chose to be a democracy. Now is the time to align with other democratic countries in a true fashion. Indians MUST know that India is a democratic island in a sea of autocrats. India is surrounded by autocratic countries. So if India thinks it can go alone, that will be the MOST SERIOUS mistake.