India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[Bhadra]

Sorry..wrong comment meant for another roost.

OK... I was furious on that... taken...

 

[Waanar]

Yesterday night (till a few hours ago) you were bullshitting me that it is no War.
From "No War" You have graduated to "World War".......

That is called being "Ram Bharose",,,,

First, I never said "There is no war" but let's play your way.

Where is war? Are there wars without a shot fired? Unless you count punching, smacking with a bat etc as wars (I got in many wars in my high school then). If amassing troops is war, then Op Parakram was a war too.

Secondly, I said "If your predictions come true".
Unless Tarun Raju ji is a demi god or something who can predict future with 100% certainty, no, it's not a world war yet. I merely mentioned that if our Nuclear Submarines will "raze Beijing to the ground", it WILL be escalating into a World war by domino effect.

I'm sure either you've got someone else in mind, saar.

 

[ladder]

A massive intelligence failure a few members have opined. If at all we momentarily agree to it, what would have happened if there was none, the sit in would have been a kilometer or two Eastward or be at finger xx other than being near finger 3/4.
And about the 'massive' 16 PLA tanks spotted by OSNIT specialist, I had enough of them during Balakote.
Rest things about intelligence failure are conjectures of fertile speculative mind.

 

[ladder]

Since yesterday we have been hearing of "Specialized Troops" that have been brought in the Ladakh theatre who are experts and know that area well.

Those who know things understand what is being referred to. If that is true, it means the situation indeed is serious.

But the "Specialist troops" are meant for all sectors. Why concentrate them in Ladakh only?

I hope the military commander will keep all options open and use them effectively elsewhere also especially in carrying out offensive actions.

Acclemetised High Altitude reserves have always been Indian Military leaders Achilles heels. Even ITBP does not have their Ladakh reserves who are sitting in Delhi.....

No lessons seem to have been laeant from Kargil and Doklam.... Now keep waiting for 21 days when Chinese are sitting on your head... Burrrrrh...

Get your TA, reserves ( retired but fit for active duty) and civil defence also acclamatised when you are at it.

 

[Bhadra]

I am hoping porkis are not foolish enough to fell for this chinese ploy ( chances are otherwise offcourse) .. on land BSF will be more than enough for their jihadi army...and Navy is still scratching their ships to enter karachi....

You really think BSF will be enough....
Are you competing for the post of DG BSF ? Get ready. The present DG BSF is also DG ITBP and posts likely to get vacated .

you seem to be another BN Mallik in making?? ......

 

[Shashank Nayak]

If either party was interested to go to war, there would not be a months' long interval where each party is allowed to reinforce weak points. Beacuse, this only makes one's action much costlier. Someone would have already attacked.
I hope there is atleast some artillery duel, and we stop pappi jhappi fighting currently seen along the LAC with China..

 

[Bhadra]

A massive intelligence failure a few members have opined. If at all we momentarily agree to it, what would have happened if there was none, the sit in would have been a kilometer or two Eastward or be at finger xx other than being near finger 3/4.
And about the 'massive' 16 PLA tanks spotted by OSNIT specialist, I had enough of them during Balakote.
Rest things about intelligence failure are conjectures of fertile speculative mind.

It is very simple..
Army would have taken over LAC...
A brigade of Indian Army would have been sitting 5 km deep into Galwan naullaha.

The Chinese incursion ahead of finger 8 and surround area would have been prevented.

Demchok would be having the Armoured Brigade poise to hit the Chines ion their arse.
Complete SSN would have had an extra brigade...
By now at least 11 Disions would have acclimatized for HHA applications.

Three to four SF battalions would have acclemetised for action..

A gereal mobilisation would have taken place and all IBG would have been at launch pads...
You ask military and intelligence questions as if it is enjoyable crud !!

 

[ladder]

It is very simple..
Army would have taken over LAC...
A brigade of Indian Army would have been sitting 5 km deep into Galwan naullaha.

The Chinese incursion ahead of finger 8 and surround area would have been prevented.

Demchok would be having the Armoured Brigade poise to hit the Chines ion their arse.
Complete SSN would have had an extra brigade...
By now at least 11 Disions would have acclimatized for HHA applications.

Three to four SF battalions would have acclemetised for action..

A gereal mobilisation would have taken place and all IBG would have been at launch pads...
You ask military and intelligence questions as if it is enjoyable crud !!

I only enjoy sweet curd, what you are presenting is un-palatable stale one.

Rest are your perception of your level of requirements of force presence.
I don't have the mind of Northern Army commander here.
Your speculation and to answer that your own force projection.

Bhai aap ki is khyabon ki Shaadi Mei yeh bichra Abdullah kyun deewana baneh?

 

[Bhadra]

Get your TA, reserves ( retired but fit for active duty) and civil defence also acclimatised when you are at it.

But not CAPF ... say more than 400 battalions not a joke .... simply splurging Dal and Bhat in Delhi and Chandigarh..
Why talk of them.. we have NCC and above all RSS Swayamsevak too who will do a good job.
By the way most of the reservists (retired fauzies carrying reservations liability) are younger than 50% CAPF constables)... Ha Ha Ha ...

 

[ladder]

But not CAPF ... say more than 400 battalions not a joke .... simply splurging Dal and Bhat in Delhi and Chandigarh..
Why talk of them.. we have NCC and above all RSS Swayamsevak too who will do a good job.
By the way most of the reservists (retired fauzies carrying reservations liability) are younger than 50% CAPF constables)... Ha Ha Ha ...

Young but not acclamatised. That is being pointed out. Unless every every retired Jawan is sitting on mountain top.

 

[Bhadra]

Young but not acclamatised. That is being pointed out. Unless every every retired Jawan is sitting on mountain top.

Reservist of JAKRIF and LADAKH SCOUTS are acclimatizes being in Ladakh. All ladhakies have been very helpful much more than you and me sitting in Delhi.....

There would be about fifty odd Delhiwals in Ladakh. Just herd them up in their jeans and take then for porter duties...

I have seen long hair, spectacled, jean clad Biri smoking PhDs captured from Sonamarg by a JAT battalion carrying ammunition on their backs to Kargil hills during Op VIJAY...

 

[ladder]

Reservist of JAKRIF and LADAKH SCOUTS are acclimatizes being in Ladakh. All ladhakies have been very helpful much more than you and me sitting in Delhi.....

There would be about fifty odd Delhiwals in Ladakh. Just herd them up in their jeans and take then for porter duties...

I have seen long hair, spectacled, jean clad Biri smoking PhDs captured from Sonamarg by a JAT battalion carrying ammunition on their backs to Kargil hills during Op VIJAY...

Get those Porters group insurance when you are at it.
It was one of the foremost gripe of local population in NEFA in 1962, that IA forced them being to become Porter without pay.
How can they not become one, for IA was saving their arse.

Winning hearts and minds anyone?

 

[cereal killer]

This thread is getting weird

 

[Bhadra]

This thread is getting weird

I agree... some people instead of dealing with the issue take others to Timaktoo.

 

[Bhadra]

Get those Porters group insurance when you are at it.
It was one of the foremost gripe of local population in NEFA in 1962, that IA forced them being to become Porter without pay.
How can they not become one, for IA was saving their arse.

Winning hearts and minds anyone?

Sure, let an insurance agent land up at Galwan... Are you a volunteer ???
Give me your name and contact details...

 

[ladder]

Sure, let an insurance agent land up at Galwan... Are you a volunteer ???
Give me your name and contact details...

Prabhu insurancewala, inderlok.
I won't forgo my commission. And you be my local guide.

 

[Mikesingh]

PLA enjoys a very high status in Chinese society and system and controls even the CCP.

The PLA does not control the CCP. It is under the command of the Central Military Commission (CMC) of the CPC whose Chairman is Zi Jinping himself. It is legally obliged to follow the principle of civilian control of the military. In practical terms, the PLA is under the absolute control of the Chinese Communist Party.

However, it does seem as though a nationalistic and increasingly influential PLA is driving assertive Chinese policies on military and sovereignty issues. However, the PLA remains a "party-army" that is responsive to orders from the CCP especially after Xi took over and streamlined the PLA such as the creation of the Theatre Commands, the reorganization of the General Departments, and his purge of former senior military leaders.

Point to note is that the PLA’s historical role is protecting the CCP from enemies both external and internal which is ultimately its most important mission.

 

[Bhadra]

If either party was interested to go to war, there would not be a months' long interval where each party is allowed to reinforce weak points. Beacuse, this only makes one's action much costlier. Someone would have already attacked.
I hope there is atleast some artillery duel, and we stop pappi jhappi fighting currently seen along the LAC with China..

You mean War is conducted just for the sake of war..
Just rush, push the other chap to grounds and then clap your Thai...
Wars can have many phases including posturing, threatening, deception...War and No War, Cold War, hot war, proxy war
Why months, it can take years...
India Pakistan is in eyeball contact with each other for so many years ... that seems to mean to you they are fools,,,

You mean there have not been any bangs, blasts, hisses of fighter jets passing by, pat pat of bullets ... To Maza nahin Aya.... Hai Na...

 

[cereal killer]

If this buildup leads to a military conflict then we should note:
Himalaya is world's highest mountain range and 90% of Chinese arsenal is useless in that theater.


It needs 9:1 supremacy to dislodge an enemy in mountainous terrain.

Far from China having that sort of military supremacy, it is practically impotent in mountain warfare with it having 3 acclimatized brigades with two Squadrons of J10/11 deployed in Tibet. One division in the Aksai chin front and one Squadron of J10/11 fighters. That’s it.


India's deployment WRT to China: On the Northeast front India has 4 Corps of Mountain Infantry, 8 Air bases, 7 Advanced landing grounds mere 20 kms from the LAC. On the northern side one Mountain Corps, one Infantry Corps, 4 air bases and 5 Advanced landing grounds just for Chinese front.

Mountain warfare is fought and won by infantry and you could not rush soldiers directly from plains as they would die of vomiting their guts, if rushed in without acclimatizing. PLA is mostly composed of Hans who have lived in the plains for centuries. Acclimating is one thing, to be war fighting fit in those heights, genetics and evolution come into play.

We have Dogras, Kumaoni, Ladakhi, Nagas and Gurkhas. Native of the mountains, naturally acclimated to heights as a gift of nature.

The new light tank type 15 of China is a desperate measure from their part which is to be used defensively, if India break through Himalaya and marches onto Lhasa.
There is one major Rail link and 3 major roads from China into Tibet which would be taken out within first few hours of a conflict. It would cut Chinese armies deployed against India off their supplies, while Indian Army supply lines are very short and local.
Eastern sector in Arunachal. Not a Tank battlezone.
We have 1 brahmos regiment already deployed in Arunachal with 100 missiles targeting mainly supply depots and rail/road links into Tibet. Another regiment will be raised with Mountain Strike Corps. 3 more brahmos regiments with ~240-300 missiles target pakistan in our 3 strike corps.
Our target with Brahmos is simple, we destroy the gas pipeline from the mainland that supplies fuel for vehicles/aircraft in tibet and we destroy the 2-3 main road and rail links that connect tibet with xinjiang and mainland china. This can be done quickly and easily and repeated several times even if repaired. Once these road/rail links are destroyed and fuel is gone it doesn't matter how many soldiers you have in tibet, they will starve. No oil,no ammo,no reinforcement.
On top of it, China has not fought a shooting war since 1979 & best practice its conscript army has got has been shooting at cardboard targets, while thanks to Pakistan army and their jihadis, every Indian soldier has battle experience.

China has bad quality knockoff planes, of which only few could be deployed on bases in Tibet and Chengdhu from where they could reach India and even they could not take off from Tibet with full load as rarefied air of Tibet reduces thrust of aircrafts. On top of it, only J-11D in PLAAF has OBOG system, while all frontline Indian planes have OBOG system, thus reducing high altitude fighting capability of PLAAF even further.

An important point to note here is that in mountain warfare, defenders have massive advantage. While China does not have military strength to defeat us in mountain warfare, we also could not mount deep invasion into Tibet as logistic problem would be turned on its head. Our forces would come in range of PLAAF flying from airfields in mainland China (from where they could fly with full load)

In Navy, Pakistan is a bigger challenger of Indian Navy in Indian ocean than PLAN. IN could block Oil supplies of China from Middle East easily. Indian navy will choke Strait of Malacca China’s lifeline and China has to contend with India’s unsinkable aircraft carrier: the Andaman and Nicobar Islands located close to the choke point of Malacca Strait.
The truth with China is that, while it is a decent military power, it is not as strong as people make it out to be, and it depends on propaganda and intimidation to achieve its objective. For Ex: Its DF-21 ASBM which it has tested on an stationary target, but never gathered enough courage to test on a moving target. The reason for this is that it knows that an ASBM could not hit a moving target due to some shortcoming that originate from basic Physics. Similarly, in mountainous regions, it is not strong enough to aggress against India.

This answer is a little reality check for CCP fanboys. Though I also know that it will not be an easy task for us to charge a big offensive into Chinese territory as we already have our nemisis porkies on the other side.

 

[aditya10r]

Tibet's Independence is India's security.