India China LAC & International Border Discussions

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Bhadra

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I'm not doubting the plans, I'm just worried. I have the stomach for bloodshed, so do most DFIans but this will be one big mess.
Mess of the century, I dare say.

If the Chinese have completely lost their mind, I'm not sure how bad they have to suffer to bring out the N bombs.

I'm just damn confused.

When did confrontations between nuclear neighbors become so mainstream?😂😂😂
In the country's security management system, there are people and agencies who are solely tasked to prevent such a collapse of wits and morale and not allow enemy achieve such a devastating suprise.

Why is it that every time we get debilitating and crippling surprises ?

Why are we such big enemy of our soldiers that we always ensure they start with big disadvantages and suffer in a big way ??

Why the interest of bureaucracy is supreme and above national interests in India. How can anyone put LAC management under ITBP detached from Army ?? Are those sixty odd battalions on LAC not supposed to be in touch with Army sitting just behind them on what was happening?
Then why cry on Modi's shoulders .. go and hang yourself !!
No one will answer those questions? Indian bureaucracy is beyond God ...
 

Sanglamorre

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Talk between Trump & Modi was not reported by media but rather by Trump himself !

Fake news from Trump aside, this is geopolitical suicide from India ! Why embarrass POTUS on global stage when he is known to be egoistic & irrational ?
I know I will be attacked by people saying we don’t need America, China aside, if tomorrow Pakistan joins the game of Kashmir along with China, we will need America to put a leash on them.
Did GoI themselves say there was no talk? It's just some news channels doing the source source games right?
 

Blue Water Navy

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They are suicidal aren't they, look at them. They can go to any lengths to see India suffer. They are already selling there women, leasing land is nothing for them. Anything for the sugar daddy.
Those things and this thing is not the same. It will be a political suicide for Pakistan in the world stage. All diplomatic virtues will be become void. It will be more or less like attacking India directly not from POK or Kashmir but through Mumbai.
 

Knowitall

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Why these images are cropping up now ?
Bringing artillery and tanks in such numbers in battle on is not one day affair ?
Are we blind every where, Pakistan Frontr, China front, nepal, Naxals, everyone seems to be beating Indian intelligence ?

That is not good. What use is all this when enemy is already on your door.
Lol.

Why are these cropping now oh we have been taken by surprise oh how did this happen.

Why spew nonsense here just because you didn't get to see the pictures doesn't mean that that nobody did.

By we if you mean us the public yes the military and top brass no not at all.

You think the Indian army can be deployed in 1 day multiple handles have been claiming almost a month back include one DFI user here when he said India has been moving troops and artillery towards china but it has gained no media attention.

Everyone seems to be beating indian intelligence all these years what nonsense is this we didn't have a single terrorist attack in our country in the last few years you think RA&W has been sleeping all this time.

The arms flow to naxals the recent input that caught all those explosions in car Baluchistan gaining momentum who do you think is doing all this.

What use when the enemy is at the door.

We to are at their door the army didn't magically appear they were given proper input.

Nepal is a problem that will solve itself just like Maldives pressure is already being applied.

Please talk something sensible instead of blind hatred.
 

Karthi

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There are only a few areas along the border where India has the advantage of being on higher ground.

The PLA also reportedly conducted “civilian-military” integration mock exercises in Tibet in June 2018.

Tibet Military Command is now armed with a new vehicle-mounted howitzer in seeking to enhance the high-altitude combat proficiency as part of the broader border security functions. The new howitzer, supposedly a PLC-181, was deployed with an artillery brigade in Tibet in 2017.the howitzer comes with a 52-caliber cannon and a range of over 50 km, able to shoot laser-guided and satellite-guided


China has already developed a 96,000-km-long road network in Tibet[50] and a 2,000-km railway line from Xining, Qinghai province to Lhasa in Tibet.[51] The latter was extended to the city of Shigatse, close to the Indian border, in August 2014.[52] Further, China is developing a railway line from Lhasa to Nyingchi in the East in close proximity to the Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh, which is to be completed by 2021.


China additionally plans to launch a 1,700-km railway line from Sichuan to Tibet, connecting with areas that border Arunachal Pradesh; it is to be completed in 2026.


China was set to build three new airports in the TAR, in addition to the five existing ones in the region.[56] China has also been upgrading its underground facilities at a small military town known as Lhoka, possibly to accommodate guards and troops, as well as artillery ammunition and missiles.

Moreover, Beijing has developed a 1,080-km-long oil pipeline from Golmud to Lhasa with a carrying capacity of 0.5 million tonnes per year.[58] The establishment of significant logistics and oil depots in the TAR suggest that China is planning for not only mobilising forces at the border quickly but also for sustaining them on the border areas for longer periods of time.


Improvement in India’s border infrastructure is crucial for ensuring better mobility of troops and the logistics of storing and moving weapons, ammunition and missiles.

There are strategic infrastructure projects of great significance that have faced problems which need to be addressed rapidly. The Darbuk-Shyok-Daulat Beg Oldi road (255 km) which runs near the LAC in eastern Ladakh has suffered from realignments and poor constructions since September 2001.

The BRO has been entrusted with the construction of 61 important roads. However, only 35 of these strategic links have been completed.

India’s border infrastructure problems are further magnified by the multiplicity of agencies involved in securing the border. For example, the Indian Army, Indo-Tibet Border Police, Border Security Force and the Assam Rifles are all responsible for managing the border on the Indian side. This has meant that both the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) and the Ministry of Defense (MoD) have responsibility for the Sino-Indian border and the lack of coordination between different ministries and agencies has resulted in difficulties. For its part, China’s border management is managed by a single unified commander who is responsible for the TAR forces. India will therefore have to rectify its border systems and work towards a unified command structure to strengthen its defenses.


it is important to note that India faces tougher geological conditions in improving its infrastructure. The Himalayas is a young fold mountain range and is still rising and therefore, the construction takes place on fissured rocks mixed with clay. Also given the North-South flow of rivers on the Indian side, developing lateral connectivity is also challenging. While the terrain certainly is a problem, there are challenging tasks for China as well on specific sectors which it has managed to overcome. On the Indian side, the problem is primarily related to scaling.

shortage of not only qualified and skilled personnel but also heavy equipment for drilling through the mountainous terrain. Local political interference by non-qualified contractors has also been an issue..


significant delays over the past many years in the completion of projects should be an imperative for a debate on the effectiveness of the BRO.

The former Indian Air Force Air Chief Marshal B.S. Dhanoa, for instance, had noted the big increase in the number of Chinese aircrafts in the TAR. He mentioned in particular the deployment of Sukhoi-27 and J-10 aircraft for year-round operations, giving the PLAAF possibly a major tactical boost. This is a new trend as against the earlier practice of deploying these aircrafts during summer months alone.[73] The overall mix of multi-role fighter and strike aircraft of the PLAAF can address any possible attrition during a conflict.
 

Karthi

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I suggest every one should read this article . I purposefully didn't posted it just don't want to demoralise our members.



We should concentrate on Infra , and capable Weapons rather than cheap excuses like MKI detected J20 , We are in high altitude , our soldiers are better skilled etc , me also using these in various platforms to make our people Confident but in reality everything is just opposite , geography is not in favour of us , but difficult for us to stay in LAC , lack of infrastructure , will make us vulnerable .
 

Bhadra

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Does any one reads DFI or listen to the gossip here ?

The only way to come out of this mess is to hurt China where it is going to hurt them the most.

This is the time for India to adopt a strategy of Indirect approach. In that :

* Hold tight the Chinese land front Front in Ladakh especially SSN.
* Prepare for a massive counteroffensive in Chumbi valley and cut that damn thing off.
* Launch a limited offensive through Lipulekh - Central Sector to interdict Chinese N-219.
* Harass the Chinese SLOC and PLAN.
* Massive offensive into POK to cut off the Chinese Road to Gwadar (CPEC) should be the masterstroke.
* An offensive aginst Lahore.
Ye mustande kis din ke liye palen gain hamane ???

That is the GO...
 

tarunraju

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This is a perfect opportunity for India to kick-start a military industrial complex, economy is already dwindling and with excess of labor that is unemployed, there is always going to be demand for equipment, if not for export than for domestic consumption. The only issue is do we have the skilled workforce to implement it and how to circumvent the red-tape. With a two-front war looming in the next few years, we will not get a better justification for spending more on military and internal security.
Test full range ICBMs and MIRVs while you are at it.

It is a pipe dream though, we will probably order a few more T-90s and AKs and call it a day.
I guess Modi's "Atmanirbhar Bharat" slogan was a clarion call for just that. He wouldn't use it for simply localizing the manufacture of masks and PPEs. He knows he needs to put the 50-70 million youth unemployed by COVID-19 to work fast, or he will have a big problem on his hands. A war would give him the perfect opportunity (a national cause). Plus war puts civilian factories to join the war-effort, working 24x7 (three shifts a day, round the clock).

Kissinger grew a boner for China after WW2 and GLF, as he saw the vast potential in the Chinese labour force. A war would be a perfect demonstrator of the Indian blue-collar labour force to the world.
 

Sridhar_TN

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Why these images are cropping up now ?
Bringing artillery and tanks in such numbers in battle on is not one day affair ?
Are we blind every where, Pakistan Frontr, China front, nepal, Naxals, everyone seems to be beating Indian intelligence ?

That is not good. What use is all this when enemy is already on your door.

It’s an old video . Stop freaking out ✋ 🛑
:doh:
 

another_armchair

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If you think Army get crystal clear orders, you are sadly mistaken sir.
In last 74 years there has not been even a single instance of GoI issuing an Operational Directive to the Armed Forces even in1971 war or Even during Kargil. Armed Forces assume directions and do not look back.

We are not USA sir where the Army does not step out of their barracks without a written directive.

Ambiguity, obscurity and indecisiveness is the hallmark of Indian political system and more so of the bureaucracy. They do that more often to escape responsibility. Anything goes wrong - hang the general is the culture.

USA issues Security directive to its forces including to CIA every year and for every operation.
Under the current dispensation, the Army does not need orders from a bureaucrat to pull the trigger on the LoC or choose how to respond to ceasefire violations on the Western border. Local commanders are at liberty to deal with the situation.

ITBP carries empty guns(mag removed) when they patrol along the perceived LAC. Do they enjoy the same liberty/powers that the Army or even the BSF enjoys on the Western border?

No. How should ITBP deal with PLA transgressions and bullying? Can they open fire at PLA when they are attacked and mauled by PLA who enjoy a numerical advantage? What should ITBP personnel do when they are surrounded by PLA men wielding clubs? Can they open fire?

You talk of intelligence failure. What happened at Handwara that cost us a Col, a Major and three other security personnel? Intel failure? SOP failure? Will you be as scathing?

I don't want to turn this thread into a blue-on-blue. Please understand the ITBP has the same master the Army does, except that they are treated more disdainfully than the Army.

Will try my best to desist from responding to any more flamebaits.
 

Blue Water Navy

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I suggest every one should read this article . I purposefully didn't posted it just don't want to demoralise our members.



We should concentrate on Infra , and capable Weapons rather than cheap excuses like MKI detected J20 , We are in high altitude , our soldiers are better skilled etc , me also using these in various platforms to make our people Confident but in reality everything is just opposite , geography is not in favour of us , but difficult for us to stay in LAC , lack of infrastructure , will make us vulnerable .
Why the name "Joint military exercise" anyway? Its should be 'China's military exercise'!!
 

Dovah

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I guess Modi's "Atmanirbhar Bharat" slogan was a clarion call for just that. He wouldn't use it for simply localizing the manufacture of masks and PPEs. He knows he needs to put the 50-70 million youth unemployed by COVID-19 to work fast, or he will have a big problem on his hands. A war would give him the perfect opportunity (a national cause). Plus war puts civilian factories to join the war-effort, working 24x7 (three shifts a day, round the clock).
Yeah, a USSR style industrialization drive, specially in UP, Bihar (excess workforce) and Tamil Nadu (established infrastructure). But if the government thinks that it can beat the low-tech manufacturing curve to jump straight into high-tech manufacturing, then it is wrong. The Chinese were building cheap toys for decades before they graduated to making microprocessors.

I am done with slogans and sloganeering though, what happened to Make-In-India? Every move that changes the status quo will be checked by the bureaucratic monolith and will be mired in red-tape.

If a defence manufacturing industry does not emerge from this crisis, then I have lost all hope in our political and administrative framework. Neccessity is the mother of corruption, when it comes to them.
 

Sridhar_TN

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Talk between Trump & Modi was not reported by media but rather by Trump himself !

Fake news from Trump aside, this is geopolitical suicide from India ! Why embarrass POTUS on global stage when he is known to be egoistic & irrational ?
I know I will be attacked by people saying we don’t need America, China aside, if tomorrow Pakistan joins the game of Kashmir along with China, we will need America to put a leash on them.
Relax, and people stop freaking out. Trump or the state department is not constantly checking parul Chandra’s tweet. If Modi or the GOI says so, only then will trump have to respond irrationally.
 

Blue Water Navy

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Yeah, a USSR style industrialization drive, specially in UP, Bihar (excess workforce) and Tamil Nadu (established infrastructure). But if the government thinks that it can beat the low-tech manufacturing curve to jump straight into high-tech manufacturing, then it is wrong. The Chinese were building cheap toys for decades before they graduated to making microprocessors.

I am done with slogans and sloganeering though, what happened to Make-In-India? Every move that changes the status quo will be checked by the bureaucratic monolith and will be mired in red-tape.

If a defence manufacturing industry does not emerge from this crisis, then I have lost all hope in our political and administrative framework. Neccessity is the mother of corruption, when it comes to them.
Indeed it will not happen overnight. But the correct road-map needs to be laid now.😎
 

tarunraju

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Yeah, a USSR style industrialization drive, specially in UP, Bihar (excess workforce) and Tamil Nadu (established infrastructure). But if the government thinks that it can beat the low-tech manufacturing curve to jump straight into high-tech manufacturing, then it is wrong. The Chinese were building cheap toys for decades before they graduated to making microprocessors.

I am done with slogans and sloganeering though, what happened to Make-In-India? Every move that changes the status quo will be checked by the bureaucratic monolith and will be mired in red-tape.

If a defence manufacturing industry does not emerge from this crisis, then I have lost all hope in our political and administrative framework. Neccessity is the mother of corruption, when it comes to them.
The war-effort will need mostly low-tech stuff such as infantry equipment, 'dumb' ammunition, MREs, etc. India has a vast population of electronics engineers who can graduate to semiconductor manufacturing.

India not playing a role in global semiconductor manufacturing has more to do with geopolitics than lack of talent. The west decided that small countries like Costa Rica, Malta, Taiwan, Thailand, Malaysia, and Singapore, become semiconductor manufacturing counter-magnets to the Chinese. It didn't want to create another China by investing in India for semiconductors, electronics and ICT. If the west decides that India should make semiconductors, the biggest fabs can come up even in places like Dantewada, and in a span of 5 years.
 

ganesh177

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More fake news. From 5000 to 10000 troops, to trump wanting to mediate between India China border conflict. Journalism is down the drain, only cuz people love the drama. Be it Saas Bahu serials or stuff going on at the border.
Its not fake news. It is what trump himself has tweeted.
 

Bhadra

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Talk between Trump & Modi was not reported by media but rather by Trump himself !

Fake news from Trump aside, this is geopolitical suicide from India ! Why embarrass POTUS on global stage when he is known to be egoistic & irrational ?
I know I will be attacked by people saying we don’t need America, China aside, if tomorrow Pakistan joins the game of Kashmir along with China, we will need America to put a leash on them.
It is not Pakistan joining the game, it is China Joining the game on behalf Pakistan to save their CPEC.

Say "Tathstu " to China and hit the CPEC? Draw Pakistani forces into POK and decimate them there by developing an armoured thrust from Jammu towards Jhelum.
 

tarunraju

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Talk between Trump & Modi was not reported by media but rather by Trump himself !

Fake news from Trump aside, this is geopolitical suicide from India ! Why embarrass POTUS on global stage when he is known to be egoistic & irrational ?
I know I will be attacked by people saying we don’t need America, China aside, if tomorrow Pakistan joins the game of Kashmir along with China, we will need America to put a leash on them.
There has been no official denial about that phonecall from GoI. Just RaNDiTV types tweeting nonsense, citing "sources." But Trump really should've kept his mouth shut. Maybe that phonecall did happen, but any word of that getting out puts Modi in a tough spot domestically.

The congressi NAMards will scream "how come you align with amreeka? mudi shud rejine"

I think PMO should put out a press release stating:
"A phonecall did happen, but it was of a personal nature, and an informal conversation between the PM and President Trump. No requests for mediation or military assistance were made."
 
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