India China LAC & International Border Discussions

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Sridhar_TN

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Their casualties are very high in number for sure. It will come out later. The changing behavior of China and their begging for peace proves, they got bloody nose. They can't face Indian Army. Even Global times and their foreign minister is also admitting from the first day that their casualties happened on their side. In this article from Global times, its clearly mentioned. Opinion: #India must not let border scuffle fray economic relations with China https://t.co/LWRvA0dGcX https://t.co/dFlGWHa8tL

There are numerous casualties on their side. Partly because the troops involved in that battle were not even properly acclimated. Most sources of chatter indicate anywhere between 35 to 70.
You can post this on any forum now as this is a fact.
 

Aniruddha Mulay

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Sed life.
Kalyani promised that he will decrease the weight of ULH and he did but no orders placed yet. No news of Trials either.

Kalyani is a gem but GOI is wasting it
Defence Decode in one of his videos confirmed that Kalyani 155/39 ULH has undergone and successfully completed it's summer trials but it is now awaiting winter trials.
 

cannonfodder

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Abhijeet Dey

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Colonel Chewang Rinchen, MVC, SM

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Colonel Chewang Rinchen MVC & Bar, SM (Kalon Tsewang Rigdzin, 1931 – 1997) was a highly decorated officer in the Indian Army from the Union territory of Ladakh.He was the youngest ever recipient of the Maha Vir Chakra, the second highest Indian gallantry decoration, for his role in the defence of Ladakh in the First Kashmir War. He received the Maha Vir Chakra for a second time after Indo-Pakistani War of 1971, for his role in the conquest of the Turtuk block (a section of the Chorbat. valley), in what came to be known as the Battle of Turtuk. He was one of only six Indian service personnel to have the Maha Vir Chakra twice.
 

mattster

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India is a slow learner.
India's strategy with China for the last half century has been appeasement and hope for the best or wait for the next Chinese leader and try again.

India was hoping that its non-aligned foreign policy will give it leverage with China. It got squat from the Chinese. While India was maintaining its non-aligned stance to avoid pissing off China and Russia - Both China and Pakistan have been closely aligning themselves against India. Now they have probably managed to rope in Nepal as well.

India needs to join Australia, Japan, Taiwan, Indonesia, and the US in defending against China. That means closer cooperation, intelligence sharing, military-to-military contacts, and joint exercises, weapons, and access to naval bases. India probably needs to double its defense spending even if its painful. India should send its cadets for training at West Point and other military academies.

Chinese leaders play Indian PMs like a fiddle - each one talks about peace, building an Asian century, and shared prosperity but they tell the military commanders to punch India in the face without starting a full-blown war every chance they get. The simmering border dispute is a perpetual tool for China's larger strategic goals. as far as containing India. It is not in China's interest, nor has it ever been in China's interest to resolve the border issue. If they really wanted to solve it; they could have done it 30 or 40 years ago.

Hopefully India has finally learnt their lesson.
The only Indian politician who really understood China was George Fernandes.
 

Bhadra

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Will PLA Repat 1962
The Gobar Times is back yet again with a threat of of 1962 on the news that Indian Armed Forces have been allowed "Freedom of Action" on Indo - Tibet border.
In another post last night I have explained why our own ruling dispensation and MEA had deliberately weakened Indian position with respect to our Northern border with China bu bending backwards to Chinese demands of a peaceful border which they themselves had created through military aggression.

Did China Defeat Indian Military in 1962 ? We must seek an answer to need for a demilitarize border in this question. Indian border settlement activities in Ladakh was solely undertaken by IB with CRPF. till they were pushed back from as far ahead as Kizil Jilga. and Dera Haji Lunger. Indian Army came into scene when Chinese had achieved their claim line. On Eastern front the Army was deployed like police in scatterd strength felicilating a Chinese run. The PLA did not defeat the Indian Army but Indian MEA and Indian political establishment.

How Did China Annex Tibet and dictated a border with India? By military aggression and India provided them a free run. There was only police type forces to be run over by the PLA.

How Did China Trap India towards Non Militarization of Border? It was quite clear to the Chinese from 1948 Hydrabad , Goa and J&K operations that new India was quite capable of using military instruments. But afterwards. they could see how Nehru and his cronies like Menon etc had virtually rendred that machine so week. Then Chines embarked on the peacemaking Panchsheel as deceit. Unilateral withdrawal by China was used as a big trap to bring India into a demilitarised border trap.

The mortal fear of 1962 kept MEA and political establishment disengaged with China on borders which was left to the mercy of the PLA. The PLA having achieved an enforced boundary unopposed was thus free.

However subsequently. when Indian Army was allowed to inch forward upto LAC, the PLA got apprehensive . Ceratin incidents like 1967 Nathula, 1986 Op Chequred Board etc further affirmed PLA apprehensions. China then got into diplomatic drive and entrapped India into a BPTA regime. Prime aim was to adoid any exposure of real PLA.

Why is China Apprehensive of Indian Army. PLA is basically a political Army directed towards internal cohesion of China. PLA.s exposures to the Russian and Vietnam armies proved very disastrous. Any military setbacks against Indian Army would further be simply disastrous for PLA specially when China had achived their aims of occupation of Tibet and enforced border with India.. Peace along Indian border thus was always vital to China. For that keeping away Indian Army was a dire necessity.

What Were Indian Compulsions. India having achieved independence was mired into establishing internal stability. Political instability always required support of Communist Parties. New Indian elites were brainwashed with love the great Communist country China, Indian MEA being full of them and nurtured on Nehruvian mold assiduously and trained to conduct Foreign Policy towards meeting objectives of domestics politics. Overall. it was not only PLA but the Indian Political establishment which developed anti Indain Army mindset looking at it as an instrument capable of upsetting their happy apple Cart.

What Should be the Balance Approach. LAC is basically a military line enforced on India by PLA. It is not a diplomatic line. It is a military problem that can only be managed by military means. It can be amanged by Police Forces during peacetime but for every small actions the Army is required to be there for ensuring its integrity and establishing Indian sovereignity. Theefore overall control must rest with Army. Army being a threat to peace is belied by Army managing the LOC without triggering any war so far since 1948.

What should be the diplomatic Appraoch. To achieve a favorable and peaceful LAC that can be adequately protected militarily rather than being an instrument of Chinese coercion and a threat to India;s sovereignty without any prejudice to settlement of boundary with China based on LAC. The boundary question must be kept alive as we are the ones at the receiving end.

India's debacle of 1962 must be buried deep along with Nehru and his MEA establishment by an assertion of Indian sovereignty along India China LAC not necessarily by military means but by a system that can eliminate and mange military threats to LAC and a meaningful management of LAC that suits requirements of our sovereignty rather than diplomacy.
 

Sanatani

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Every article from China has a threatening tone. India must do that. India must not do that.

I do not think this crisis is over. Let us not lull ourselves into a false sense of security.

India needs to really redouble its efforts to build military strength.
I totally agree. All countries and defense forces know that there will be casualities in skirmishes or battles .
China knows it better after their experiences in India(1967) & Vietnam. I don't think they are scared . We need to prepare on a war scale . If things don't detoriate well and good but if tough days are coming better be prepared for the worst scenario.
 

AmitG

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Looks like RS is going to Russia to try to get the Russians to expedite the S-400 delivery. Cant see how they can, given the Covid19 situation unless they give us some from their stock. Dont see the delivery getting expedited as there will be Chinese pressure not to and unfortunately, currently Russia is in no position got stand up to the Chinkis. Wonder if the hafta that India has cleared (read 12 Su-30MKI and 21 Mig 29's) will help.
 

garg_bharat

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Finally GOI is waking up to the security risk posed by Chinese companies operating in India.

While it may not reduce import bill immediately, constant action and import replacement will go a long way.

India needs to increase tariffs on Chinese goods following in the footsteps of EU which has branded Chinese economy as 'State economy' and not 'market economy'.

Which means China has mostly state controlled firms which receive State subsidies. China is dumping its products below cost in foreign markets to kill industries and employment in these countries; and thus create a perpetual dependence on China.
 

Mikesingh

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‘Batman, not bats’: Jibe at China in Army’s Bihar Regiment tribute!

Hours after PM Narendra Modi saluted the valour of the Bihar Regiment in the Galwan Valley skirmish with Chinese troops, a video tweeted by the Army’s Northern Command late Saturday to celebrate the unit’s battle history appeared to take a dig at China with the legend:

“Born to fight. They do what they do. They are not the bats. They are the Batman.”

The 1-minute, 57-second clip begins with the line “Friends, Indians, countrymen, lend me your years” and harks back to the Kargil conflict 21 years ago before going on to illustrate how the Bihar Regiment has its name etched on every major milestone for the Army — 1857, 1948, 1965, 1971 and 1999.

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https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...har-regiment-tribute/articleshow/76501010.cms
 
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garg_bharat

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Looks like RS is going to Russia to try to get the Russians to expedite the S-400 delivery. Cant see how they can, given the Covid19 situation unless they give us some from their stock. Dont see the delivery getting expedited as there will be Chinese pressure not to and unfortunately, currently Russia is in no position got stand up to the Chinkis. Wonder if the hafta that India has cleared (read 12 Su-30MKI and 21 Mig 29's) will help.
In international diplomacy, you have to ask for help before you get it. It is logical that India will try to get a commitment from Russia first (and see if this war situation can be averted by Russia's mediation). If Russia refuses, you will see immediate rush to USA.
 

AmitG

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Finally GOI is waking up to the security risk posed by Chinese companies operating in India.

While it may not reduce import bill immediately, constant action and import replacement will go a long way.

India needs to increase tariffs on Chinese goods following in the footsteps of EU which has branded Chinese economy as 'State economy' and not 'market economy'.

Which means China has mostly state controlled firms which receive State subsidies. China is dumping its products below cost in foreign markets to kill industries and employment in these countries; and thus create a perpetual dependence on China.
The first step the govt should take on the trade front is to ban Huawei from 5G in India. That is a no brainer. Bring in an ordinance or whatever regarding entities from enemy countries and just ban them . The Chinks should be made to realise there will be consequences and we need to hit them where it hurts. Huawei is a source of national pride and strategy for the Chinks and that is why their govt is trying desperately to stop them getting kicked out of market out of market as far as 5G is concerned.
 

AmitG

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In international diplomacy, you have to ask for help before you get it. It is logical that India will try to get a commitment from Russia first (and see if this war situation can be averted by Russia's mediation). If Russia refuses, you will see immediate rush to USA.
True. Lets see how things pan out. The Russians are not happy with the Chinese either but they have been forced into an embrace with them by the west which was really a stupid thing to do.
 

johnq

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One very easy way to end this would be to detonate underground nukes near new Chinese buildings in Galwan Valley (maybe 1/2 km away from their permanent position). This would collapse Chinese tunnels in Ladakh that they have been using for mining (with the secondary purpose of moving soldiers).
 

Karthi

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Capture42.JPG



Chinese J-20 found on Russian borders: "A 5th generation fighter was sent as a scout"

In connection with recent events, namely the conclusion of a possible contract between Russia and India for the supply of Russian T-14 Armata , a small provocative trick was carried out by China towards the Russian Federation. I suppose you know that Russia and China are one of the successful partnerships, but the muscle game is also present here.

According to a military acquaintance : Near the Russian borders, a fifth-generation Chinese fighter J-20 was found, on radars a target was displayed that moved too fast parallel to the border. He did not respond to the signals transmitted by radio; in the near future it was planned to start intercepting at the expense of the existing aircraft, but subsequently the fighter changed its trajectory.

This made it possible to cancel the interception, from assumptions - a Chinese combat aircraft made a short flight near the borders of the Russian Federation in order to demonstrate something to the military apparatus of our state with this gesture.

The only strange thing is that a brand new fifth-generation fighter was sent as a scout, by the way, his stealth technologies could not be saved from Russian radars, but I believe that no one did it.

At the moment, there is still a military confrontation between India and China, for this reason, the Chinese state does not want to sign an agreement on the supply of T-14, since this equipment will greatly affect the combat aspect of the Indian state.

But this agreement is only at the verbal stage, no one stutters its formal signing, since Armata has not yet entered the armed forces of the Russian Federation, let alone the export of this military equipment.

Don't know how authentic this news us if it true then its going to be a good for India, may be that's why Russia somewhat supporting India this time
 
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