India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[Lancer]

Excellent Thread on Patel's Final Warning regarding China - so prescient and visionary.



"The Chinese Government has tried to delude us by professions of peaceful intention...even though we regard ourselves as the friends of China, the Chinese do not regard us as their friends." - India's Sardar Patel, one month before his death in 1950.

 

[tarunraju]

One very easy way to end this would be to detonate underground nukes near new Chinese buildings in Galwan Valley (maybe 1/2 km away from their permanent position). This would collapse Chinese tunnels in Ladakh that they have been using for mining (with the secondary purpose of moving soldiers).

Any N-tests will affect our delicate civil nuclear cooperation regime. Our best bet at scaring chicoms is to test delivery systems (K-4 SLBMs, maybe a new >7000 km MRBM with MIRV capability, etc,). If we want to do "tests," it will have to be simulations with oversight from foreign states such as the French or the Americans, but those won't scare chicoms.

 

[garg_bharat]

View attachment 50908


Chinese J-20 found on Russian borders: "A 5th generation fighter was sent as a scout"

In connection with recent events, namely the conclusion of a possible contract between Russia and India for the supply of Russian T-14 Armata , a small provocative trick was carried out by China towards the Russian Federation. I suppose you know that Russia and China are one of the successful partnerships, but the muscle game is also present here.

According to a military acquaintance : Near the Russian borders, a fifth-generation Chinese fighter J-20 was found, on radars a target was displayed that moved too fast parallel to the border. He did not respond to the signals transmitted by radio; in the near future it was planned to start intercepting at the expense of the existing aircraft, but subsequently the fighter changed its trajectory.

This made it possible to cancel the interception, from assumptions - a Chinese combat aircraft made a short flight near the borders of the Russian Federation in order to demonstrate something to the military apparatus of our state with this gesture.

The only strange thing is that a brand new fifth-generation fighter was sent as a scout, by the way, his stealth technologies could not be saved from Russian radars, but I believe that no one did it.

At the moment, there is still a military confrontation between India and China, for this reason, the Chinese state does not want to sign an agreement on the supply of T-14, since this equipment will greatly affect the combat aspect of the Indian state.

But this agreement is only at the verbal stage, no one stutters its formal signing, since Armata has not yet entered the armed forces of the Russian Federation, let alone the export of this military equipment.

Don't know how authentic this news us if it true then its going to be a good for India, may be that's why Russia somewhat supporting India this time

Russia is now an orthodox Christian country, quite a leap from communism. Russia and China getting together in the long term is IMPOSSIBLE.

 

[Akula]

Defence Decode in one of his videos confirmed that Kalyani 155/39 ULH has undergone and successfully completed it's summer trials but it is now awaiting winter trials.

Short clip of Kalyani ULH firing

 

[johnq]

Any N-tests will affect our delicate civil nuclear cooperation regime. Our best bet at scaring chicoms is to test delivery systems (K-4 SLBMs, maybe a new >7000 km MRBM with MIRV capability, etc,). If we want to do "tests," it will have to be simulations with oversight from foreign states such as the French or the Americans, but those won't scare chicoms.

The price might be worth it if it saves the lives of thousands of Indian soldiers and puts a permanent end to all Chinese mining activities at India China border. The Chinese will also stop fighting if the metals/minerals they are so interested in under Ladakh and elsewhere are contaminated with radioactive byproducts of a detonation. This is simply about Chinese greed. The Chinese will not be able to dig any future tunnels in the area either if it is radioactive (underground) for hundreds of years. They will lose interest and go away. In any case, the political fallout will be limited as the detonations will be underground on Indian territory.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

Will PLA Repat 1962
​

The Gobar Times is back yet again with a threat of of 1962 on the news that Indian Armed Forces have been allowed "Freedom of Action" on Indo - Tibet border.
In another post last night I have explained why our own ruling dispensation and MEA had deliberately weakened Indian position with respect to our Northern border with China bu bending backwards to Chinese demands of a peaceful border which they themselves had created through military aggression.

Did China Defeat Indian Military in 1962 ? We must seek an answer to need for a demilitarize border in this question. Indian border settlement activities in Ladakh was solely undertaken by IB with CRPF. till they were pushed back from as far ahead as Kizil Jilga. and Dera Haji Lunger. Indian Army came into scene when Chinese had achieved their claim line. On Eastern front the Army was deployed like police in scatterd strength felicilating a Chinese run. The PLA did not defeat the Indian Army but Indian MEA and Indian political establishment.

How Did China Annex Tibet and dictated a border with India? By military aggression and India provided them a free run. There was only police type forces to be run over by the PLA.

How Did China Trap India towards Non Militarization of Border? It was quite clear to the Chinese from 1948 Hydrabad , Goa and J&K operations that new India was quite capable of using military instruments. But afterwards. they could see how Nehru and his cronies like Menon etc had virtually rendred that machine so week. Then Chines embarked on the peacemaking Panchsheel as deceit. Unilateral withdrawal by China was used as a big trap to bring India into a demilitarised border trap.

The mortal fear of 1962 kept MEA and political establishment disengaged with China on borders which was left to the mercy of the PLA. The PLA having achieved an enforced boundary unopposed was thus free.

However subsequently. when Indian Army was allowed to inch forward upto LAC, the PLA got apprehensive . Ceratin incidents like 1967 Nathula, 1986 Op Chequred Board etc further affirmed PLA apprehensions. China then got into diplomatic drive and entrapped India into a BPTA regime. Prime aim was to adoid any exposure of real PLA.

Why is China Apprehensive of Indian Army. PLA is basically a political Army directed towards internal cohesion of China. PLA.s exposures to the Russian and Vietnam armies proved very disastrous. Any military setbacks against Indian Army would further be simply disastrous for PLA specially when China had achived their aims of occupation of Tibet and enforced border with India.. Peace along Indian border thus was always vital to China. For that keeping away Indian Army was a dire necessity.

What Were Indian Compulsions. India having achieved independence was mired into establishing internal stability. Political instability always required support of Communist Parties. New Indian elites were brainwashed with love the great Communist country China, Indian MEA being full of them and nurtured on Nehruvian mold assiduously and trained to conduct Foreign Policy towards meeting objectives of domestics politics. Overall. it was not only PLA but the Indian Political establishment which developed anti Indain Army mindset looking at it as an instrument capable of upsetting their happy apple Cart.

What Should be the Balance Approach. LAC is basically a military line enforced on India by PLA. It is not a diplomatic line. It is a military problem that can only be managed by military means. It can be amanged by Police Forces during peacetime but for every small actions the Army is required to be there for ensuring its integrity and establishing Indian sovereignity. Theefore overall control must rest with Army. Army being a threat to peace is belied by Army managing the LOC without triggering any war so far since 1948.

What should be the diplomatic Appraoch. To achieve a favorable and peaceful LAC that can be adequately protected militarily rather than being an instrument of Chinese coercion and a threat to India;s sovereignty without any prejudice to settlement of boundary with China based on LAC. The boundary question must be kept alive as we are the ones at the receiving end.

India's debacle of 1962 must be buried deep along with Nehru and his MEA establishment by an assertion of Indian sovereignty along India China LAC not necessarily by military means but by a system that can eliminate and mange military threats to LAC and a meaningful management of LAC that suits requirements of our sovereignty rather than diplomacy.

It’s hard to believe the blindness to the events that has taken place and people calling every single move as bending over backwards. This is the kind of war mongering attitude that will drive you into a brick wall.

The present GOI has not betrayed or bent over backwards for anyone. This is the only govt in 60 odd years that has stood up to China in doklam in another country’s turf . Let that sink in.

The present situation with the Chinese is that there are NO Chinese’s troops in Indian territory. How difficult is that to get Through your heads. When the Galwan clashes happened, the all party meet statement has clearly conveyed that this who killed 20 Indian troops have been punished equally. Intelligence assessment from around the world peg the Chinese casualties at 30 plus.

We are not withdrawing from the leh Ladakh areas. THAT would be bending over backwards. On the CONTRARY, we have amassed more troops, tanks , fighter jets and attack helis to the border. THAT is called resolve. Not bending over backwards. We have amassed so much troops at the border that we’ve ensured even in the future, no such drama can take place regardless of who is in power.
This is not the Congress govt to bend over backwards.

With regards to the statement that modi made, the mea released a clarification immediately after saying his words are being taken out of context. I’ve explained this before. You don’t go to war because you feel like it. You go to war when you’re sure you can win. On the contrary You defend whenever war is thrust upon you. And we defended.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

View attachment 50908


Chinese J-20 found on Russian borders: "A 5th generation fighter was sent as a scout"

In connection with recent events, namely the conclusion of a possible contract between Russia and India for the supply of Russian T-14 Armata , a small provocative trick was carried out by China towards the Russian Federation. I suppose you know that Russia and China are one of the successful partnerships, but the muscle game is also present here.

According to a military acquaintance : Near the Russian borders, a fifth-generation Chinese fighter J-20 was found, on radars a target was displayed that moved too fast parallel to the border. He did not respond to the signals transmitted by radio; in the near future it was planned to start intercepting at the expense of the existing aircraft, but subsequently the fighter changed its trajectory.

This made it possible to cancel the interception, from assumptions - a Chinese combat aircraft made a short flight near the borders of the Russian Federation in order to demonstrate something to the military apparatus of our state with this gesture.

The only strange thing is that a brand new fifth-generation fighter was sent as a scout, by the way, his stealth technologies could not be saved from Russian radars, but I believe that no one did it.

At the moment, there is still a military confrontation between India and China, for this reason, the Chinese state does not want to sign an agreement on the supply of T-14, since this equipment will greatly affect the combat aspect of the Indian state.

But this agreement is only at the verbal stage, no one stutters its formal signing, since Armata has not yet entered the armed forces of the Russian Federation, let alone the export of this military equipment.

Don't know how authentic this news us if it true then its going to be a good for India, may be that's why Russia somewhat supporting India this time

It's authentic, Russia and China have problems, I am not talking about authenticity of article but relations.
There was BRF guy post here na, do you all think Chinese bastards will loose their place?
Also russia main interest is recreation OF USSR type country.
And every strategist YES EVEN THOSE INFLUENCES KREMLIN there want re-emergence of Russia empire.
You all know usual countries that have problem with it, but China too has problem with it.
They can't then become center of the world then, but also will not react too much if Russia empire emerges.
But, will start again their nibbling and preparing for many years of conflict.
They can live with it.
Becuase according to Chinese jokers world is divided into three empires, yes according to them.
USA
Russia
And them corona bastards.
So, they will play.
India does not at all have problem with Russia empire or whatever.
WE had lived with USSR just side of afghans for decades.
The thing MOST IMPORTANT is to destroy China, one must make sure russia remain neutral.
Only, then we can do that because rest of the world is HELL BENT IN CLUBBING THEM TOGETHER, because it suits them.
Yes, China is bad and Russia too is bad, Yes both are monsters.
This WINE EVERY WESTERNER IN MINDSET OR IN SKIN is drinking since "it is easy if you can kill two birds with one bullet", this is not good for us.
I don't know who is russia india trade guy here in India or in Russia but both of them are DUFFERS OF HIGHEST KIND and must be removed.
I again once say, Russia has problems with Chinese.
But Russia has no problem with India.
India must make sure, that they want to join QUAD because of China not because of Russia.
If QUAD brings Russia too, then India must take it's leadership and tell the countries it is for China only.
Jabardasti Dushman banane Mein maja aata hai tum INDIAN logon ko.

 

[Akula]

Will PLA Repat 1962
​

The Gobar Times is back yet again with a threat of of 1962 on the news that Indian Armed Forces have been allowed "Freedom of Action" on Indo - Tibet border.
In another post last night I have explained why our own ruling dispensation and MEA had deliberately weakened Indian position with respect to our Northern border with China bu bending backwards to Chinese demands of a peaceful border which they themselves had created through military aggression.

Did China Defeat Indian Military in 1962 ? We must seek an answer to need for a demilitarize border in this question. Indian border settlement activities in Ladakh was solely undertaken by IB with CRPF. till they were pushed back from as far ahead as Kizil Jilga. and Dera Haji Lunger. Indian Army came into scene when Chinese had achieved their claim line. On Eastern front the Army was deployed like police in scatterd strength felicilating a Chinese run. The PLA did not defeat the Indian Army but Indian MEA and Indian political establishment.

How Did China Annex Tibet and dictated a border with India? By military aggression and India provided them a free run. There was only police type forces to be run over by the PLA.

How Did China Trap India towards Non Militarization of Border? It was quite clear to the Chinese from 1948 Hydrabad , Goa and J&K operations that new India was quite capable of using military instruments. But afterwards. they could see how Nehru and his cronies like Menon etc had virtually rendred that machine so week. Then Chines embarked on the peacemaking Panchsheel as deceit. Unilateral withdrawal by China was used as a big trap to bring India into a demilitarised border trap.

The mortal fear of 1962 kept MEA and political establishment disengaged with China on borders which was left to the mercy of the PLA. The PLA having achieved an enforced boundary unopposed was thus free.

However subsequently. when Indian Army was allowed to inch forward upto LAC, the PLA got apprehensive . Ceratin incidents like 1967 Nathula, 1986 Op Chequred Board etc further affirmed PLA apprehensions. China then got into diplomatic drive and entrapped India into a BPTA regime. Prime aim was to adoid any exposure of real PLA.

Why is China Apprehensive of Indian Army. PLA is basically a political Army directed towards internal cohesion of China. PLA.s exposures to the Russian and Vietnam armies proved very disastrous. Any military setbacks against Indian Army would further be simply disastrous for PLA specially when China had achived their aims of occupation of Tibet and enforced border with India.. Peace along Indian border thus was always vital to China. For that keeping away Indian Army was a dire necessity.

What Were Indian Compulsions. India having achieved independence was mired into establishing internal stability. Political instability always required support of Communist Parties. New Indian elites were brainwashed with love the great Communist country China, Indian MEA being full of them and nurtured on Nehruvian mold assiduously and trained to conduct Foreign Policy towards meeting objectives of domestics politics. Overall. it was not only PLA but the Indian Political establishment which developed anti Indain Army mindset looking at it as an instrument capable of upsetting their happy apple Cart.

What Should be the Balance Approach. LAC is basically a military line enforced on India by PLA. It is not a diplomatic line. It is a military problem that can only be managed by military means. It can be amanged by Police Forces during peacetime but for every small actions the Army is required to be there for ensuring its integrity and establishing Indian sovereignity. Theefore overall control must rest with Army. Army being a threat to peace is belied by Army managing the LOC without triggering any war so far since 1948.

What should be the diplomatic Appraoch. To achieve a favorable and peaceful LAC that can be adequately protected militarily rather than being an instrument of Chinese coercion and a threat to India;s sovereignty without any prejudice to settlement of boundary with China based on LAC. The boundary question must be kept alive as we are the ones at the receiving end.

India's debacle of 1962 must be buried deep along with Nehru and his MEA establishment by an assertion of Indian sovereignty along India China LAC not necessarily by military means but by a system that can eliminate and mange military threats to LAC and a meaningful management of LAC that suits requirements of our sovereignty rather than diplomacy.

According to Trishul blog, these are two areas which India surrendered to Chinese without firing a single bullet.

Jelep La: 27 21 56.61 N, 88 51 48.42 E
Longju: 28 39 39.67 N, 93 22 22.66 E

 

[Sridhar_TN]

According to Trishul blog, these are two areas which India surrendered to Chinese without firing a single bullet.

Jelep La: 27 21 56.61 N, 88 51 48.42 E
Longju: 28 39 39.67 N, 93 22 22.66 E

When was this surrendered?

 

[Akula]

When was this surrendered?

1962 war

 

[Sridhar_TN]

1962 war

We’ve surrenderd more in the last decade and a half. A few pages back I posted a tweet that has all the passes surrendered quietly during congress rule.

 

[ARVION]

1962 war

That's what I am telling this was a 1962 blunder

 

[Akula]

We’ve surrenderd more in the last decade and a half. A few pages back I posted a tweet that has all the passes surrendered quietly during congress rule.

Is there any map which show the areas we lost due to Salami Slicing after 1962 war?

 

[Sridhar_TN]

Is there any map which show the areas we lost due to Salami Slicing after 1962 war?

Not too sure there

 

[ARVION]

Is there any map which show the areas we lost due to Salami Slicing after 1962 war?

Since 1990s china is trying to infiltrate and creating havoc at LAC many no man's land could have fallen to them correct me if I am wrong

 

[Mikesingh]

According to a military acquaintance : Near the Russian borders, a fifth-generation Chinese fighter J-20 was found, on radars a target was displayed that moved parallel to the border.

Hmmm...the Chinese J-20s are supposed to be '5th generation stealth fighters' but are lit up like Christmas trees on radar screens?? WTF? Lol! Nuff said!!

 

[Sridhar_TN]

Since 1990s china is trying to infiltrate and creating havoc at LAC many no man's land could have fallen to them correct me if I am wrong

Problem is we allowed them. For so long the political leadership were literal traitors. All they wanted was to cover their asses and sit in their thumbs. This govt is a lot different. At least we took this head on and are not backing down.
ANI consistently reports migs, sukhois, apaches, chinook in Ladakh now... ideas distributed shows artilleries moving in to the area. That is by no means a deescalation.

This is military chest thumping. India’s daring the chinks. This has not been done before. If it was the congress schmicks in power, they would ha e withdrawn troops altogether. Something a lot of people are forgetting.

 

[ARVION]

So the Chinese J-20s are '5th generation stealth fighters' that are lit up like Christmas trees on radar screens?? Lol! Nuff said!!

They could have low rcs than rafale f 18 or eurofighter but higher than the f 35 and su 57

 

[ganesh177]

Still using the word casualties.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

View attachment 50910

Still using the word casualties.

We returned 21 bodies. American intelligence indicates more have died because of injuries.
These lying bastards...