India China LAC & International Border Discussions

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Bhadra

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Read my above post helina is almost ready .

All this talk about accuracy and max range are issue of hot desert .for laddakh there is no such issue. They can mount helina on rudra and lch and put them there
What about the issue of minimum range .... Has that been resolved...
Will DRDL or someone start a faulty missile production only for ladakh... where not even a single missile may be fired..
 

Sridhar_TN

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They’ve grown big economically. Militarily they are weaker than Russia.
But with enough time and money and if left unchecked, they could grow in the military domain too, in the decades to come.

This definitely worries the current powers to be.
When I say ‘they’, I mean China.
 

cereal killer

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The whole world has benefited from US trade policies . If a new country replaces USA
will the same generosity exist?? I don't think India is viewed as a threat in the same league
as China which is an economic and military threat.
I think US certainly will try to contain India as well though not at the level of Chinese but economically like how they treated Japan in the 1980’s. It is foolish to think that US will ever let go of its hegemony.
 

Assassin 2.0

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The whole world has benefited from US trade policies . If a new country replaces USA
will the same generosity exist?? I don't think India is viewed as a threat in the same league
as China which is an economic and military threat.
World is bound to change in next 30-50 years. Whether we like it or not.
USA for it's own interest likes to have a unipolar world But that status have been slowly and slowly getting diluted. I don't think we should be scared of rise of new different countries.
Eventually India will also be the biggest factor in creation of multipolar world.
 

LETHALFORCE

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I think US certainly will try to contain India as well though not at the level of Chinese but economically like how they treated Japan in the 1980’s. It is foolish to think that US will ever let go of its hegemony.
India does a good job of containing itself. Why should USA let it's hegemony go??
If another country was in USA's position it would let it go?? As long as dollar is the
premier world currency nothing will change anytime soon.
 

LETHALFORCE

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World is bound to change in next 30-50 years. Whether we like it or not.
USA for it's own interest likes to have a unipolar world But that status have been slowly and slowly getting diluted. I don't think we should be scared of rise of new different countries.
Eventually India will also be the biggest factor in creation of multipolar world.
multipolar world is a nice fantasy similar to the non aligned movement. Neither the
democratic countries or communst countries want a multipolar world , how
this will ever happen is a mystery??
 

AMCA

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What about the issue of minimum range .... Has that been resolved...
Will DRDL or someone start a faulty missile production only for ladakh... where not even a single missile may be fired..
In case you don't know Spike ATGM failed in 8 out of 9 tests conducted by army in hot desert conditions in 2009 but it still got inducted for use at LoC.
 

LETHALFORCE

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Assassin 2.0

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multipolar world is a nice fantasy similar to the non aligned movement. Neither the
democratic countries or communst countries want a multipolar world , how
this will ever happen is a mystery??
World increasingly becoming multipolar, says Jaishankar

The 21st century world is increasingly becoming multipolar and is unlikely to return to bipolarity, External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar said on Tuesday





Press Trust of India

Washington

October 2, 2019UPDATED: October 2, 2019 09:04 IST



External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar

The 21st century world is increasingly becoming multipolar and is unlikely to return to bipolarity, External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar said here on Tuesday, predicting that a strategic appreciation of the emerging global landscape would bring India and the US closer.



Preparing for a more competitive and complex era will require a different mindset and for a nation like India, it would be in addition to changes induced by its climb up the global power hierarchy, Jaishankar told a Washington audience in a major foreign policy speech "Preparing for a Different Era".



The minister was addressing the gathering at the Centre for Strategic and International Studies, a top American think-tank.



As a broad approach, it will lead to the primacy of long-term thinking over short-term calculations, he said, adding it would encourage undertaking deep structural changes and ambitious socio-economic initiatives that can transform both habits and attitudes.



"In this world, what are presumed to be intractable challenges will have to be addressed, not ducked," he said, citing recent changes in Jammu and Kashmir as an example to this approach.



Emphasising upon the emergence of a multipolar global scenario, Jaishankar said it is difficult "foresee a return to a bipolar" world, even amid the sharpening contradictions between China and the West.



It is because the landscape has now changed irreversibly, he noted.



"Other nations are independently on the move, including India. Half of the twenty largest economies of the world are non-western now. Diffusion of technology and demographic differentials will also contribute to the broader spread of influence.





"We see the forces at play that reflect the relative primacy of local equations when the global construct is less overbearing," he said.



The minister traced the phenomena of emerging global multipolarity to origin the space yielded by the West.



"The reality is that the space yielded by the West has been filled by many players, not just China. Furthermore, both the US and China have a use for third parties and the politics of the day will now drive multipolarity even faster," Jaishankar said.



Considered as India's foremost strategic thinker, Jaishankar said the beneficiaries of the phenomena will be the G20powers and those of that level. Powers like Russia, France and UK having prior advantages will get a fresh impetus, he added.



"Some like India can aspire to an improved position. Others like Germany would increase their weight through collective endeavours,: said Jaishankar.



"But it will also be a world of a Brazil or a Japan, of a Turkey or an Iran, a Saudi Arabia or an Australia, each having a greater say in their vicinity and perhaps, even beyond. The dilution of alliance discipline will only further facilitate this process," he said.



The top Indian diplomat said the emerging global multipolar order will have a complex architecture with its own merit.



"What will emerge is a more complex architecture, characterized by different degrees of competition, convergence and coordination. It will be like playing Chinese Checkers with many more participants, but who are still arguing over the rules," said Jaishankar.



But he also listed the risks.



"A multipolar world that is intensely competitive and driven by balance of power is not without its risks. Europe, with its World War experiences, is especially chary. Even dominant powers favour such balancing only as a specific solution and not as a general approach. For that reason, international relations envisage collective security as a safety net," he said.



Even if that does not always work, broader consensus through wider consultations would function as Plan B, he said adding: "Those most unsettled at the prospect of multipolarity with weaker rules are the nations that have long functioned in the comfort of an alliance construct."



Unlike for the historically independent players, it is understandably difficult for them to accept that the compulsions of inter-dependence are a good enough substitute, he said.



"Others may contemplate this prospect with greater nervousness, but an India perhaps with a sense of opportunity as well. An individualistic world means that the entrenched order is more open to newer players. Long-standing group positions may become less rigid. That the format of play is also more bilateral strengthens the inclination to make accommodations," he said.



"This has been more in evidence in the security domain, especially maritime cooperation, counter-terrorism or in export controls. Whether it is the Indo-US nuclear deal, the partnership in Afghanistan or the Malabar Exercise, they reflect a departure from the old group-think to a more contemporary pragmatism. It could now extend to be the economic domain as well," Jaishankar said.





According to Jaishankar, as the world moved in the direction of greater pluralism, pragmatic result-oriented cooperation has begun looking attractive. India today has emerged as a leader among such multilateral groups, because it occupies both the hedging and the emerging space at the same time, said Jaishankar.



An ability to reconcile its security interests with its political and developmental ones allows it great maneuvering space, he said, adding: "The different era is one of focused agreements, specific agendas, flexible arrangements and greater customization. Comfort is the new commitment."


( i found this article interesting and gives some insights about multipolar world)
 

cereal killer

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India does a good job of containing itself. Why should USA let it's hegemony go??
If another country was in USA's position it would let it go??
India's biggest issue is poverty. India's potential is enormous just like China. Americans will in no way make any country become equal in the international arena if it is able to say no to it. Even Israel in it Lavi project got the kick when it threatened its F-16 program’s potential sales.

Same goes with France when it did not align with it in the war of Iraq. They even renamed French fries :).
 

Gandaberunda

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India's biggest issue is poverty. India's potential is enormous just like China. Americans will in no way make any country become equal in the international arena if it is able to say no to it. Even Israel in it Lavi project got the kick when it threatened its F-16 program’s potential sales.

Same goes with France when it did not align with it in the war of Iraq. They even renamed French fries :).
French fries were never of a French it's Belgian. 😂
 

LETHALFORCE

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India's biggest issue is poverty. India's potential is enormous just like China. Americans will in no way make any country become equal in the international arena if it is able to say no to it. Even Israel in it Lavi project got the kick when it threatened its F-16 program’s potential sales.

Same goes with France when it did not align with it in the war of Iraq. They even renamed French fries :).
why should USA be so generous and make anybody a equal?? Even NATO allies do not get
full access to US weapons.
 

cereal killer

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why should USA be so generous and make anybody a equal?? Even NATO allies do not get
full access to US weapons.
I am just making a point. I know The No. 1 will always keep an eye on the No. 2 to make sure that he can stay as the No. 1. Who is the No. 2 does not matter. It could be any country with such potential. It's like a nature rule. I am saying our interests should be first & foremost.
 

AMCA

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do you believe the issues were not resolved before the purchase?? Or they really ever existed??
They may have resolved the issues but so is the case with Nag ATGM.
BTW we have a history of procuring faulty equipments ranging from T90 and Mig23 to crappy INSAS and sea eagle missiles.
Here is a report from 1997:
 

IndianHawk

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What about the issue of minimum range .... Has that been resolved...
Will DRDL or someone start a faulty missile production only for ladakh... where not even a single missile may be fired..
This minimum distance thing was always a duplicitous requirement. What is minimum distance capability of spike ?
 

Bhadra

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China believes India wants Aksai Chin back. PLA has likely secured 40-60 sq km in Ladakh

This a detailed analysis by a former Army Commander Northern Command. In spite of his political affiliation and anti-Modi political instance, whatever has been highlighted in the article has lot of substance in it and should not be brushed aside.

Whatever may be the actual situation on ground two points I too wish to highlight which deserves attention.

First - If there has been such a build-up of Chinese troops it can not happen over night. Nor can such movement be construed as a routine activity. The way deployment is taking place and reaction are emerging, it is clear Indian Army had no knowledge of this build-up. That is a clear cut intelligence failure on the part of R&AW and the IB. Heads are going to fall...

Second - The LAC management is with ITBP but not under command of the Army. How can Army be kept away from the management of such volatile LAC. The question arises that if the ITBP is not under command of the Army then the reporting channels are not through Army. Then how does one expect Army to keep abreast of the situation on LAC?

Is this a repeat of fiasco prior to 1962 when BN Malik, the director of IB kept the Army in dark about whatever was happening while playing with CRPF as a military force and then suddenly pushed Army on to slaughter platform.

Two days ago, an article has appeared in a prominent paper (quoted by me in Police thread) wherein a hue a cry has been raised about govt not appointing DG ITBP etc. I think the IPS and CAPF brass know about the fiasco that has taken place and are finding excuses in advance. Are they raising alibis?

If indeed such a scenario is present, I can assuredly tell that it is a plain conspiracy on the part of bureaucracy and Army perhaps has been put into a tight situation. There is no medal for guessing what will happen to Modi regime ??

There is still time and the conspiracy needs to be nipped in the bud. Guilty men of 2020 have to be found.

India China-LAC with ITBP but not under command Army is an inexorable sin. Whatever may the case this is a height of bureaucratic selfishness and one man up ship of IPS brasses under a man of the caliber of Ajit Dobhal. Now , if the situation is that what will happen is no one's guess. Loss of one piece of territory would be a disaster...
 
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IndianHawk

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India does a good job of containing itself. Why should USA let it's hegemony go??
If another country was in USA's position it would let it go?? As long as dollar is the
premier world currency nothing will change anytime soon.
Dollar doesn't help as USA is getting de industrialized. Dollar was made global currency when USA was the largest industrial power . Now china is largest manufacturer in the world by a lot.

Infact powerful dollar is one of the reasons why manufacturing is failing in USA. Who will us stuff with dollar being so high.

Result more unemployment stagnant wages in USA even as cost of living is sky high all thanks to mighty dollar .

USA can't bring back manufacturing and generate mass employment untill dollar remains global currency. Though USA can keep printing more dollars and import stuff from. World over to satisfy it's middle and upper classes.
 
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