India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[LETHALFORCE]

I am just making a point. I know The No. 1 will always keep an eye on the No. 2 to make sure that he can stay as the No. 1. Who is the No. 2 does not matter. It could be any country with such potential. It's like a nature rule. I am saying our interests should be first & foremost.

No empire in the world has welcomed an equal. Number one always has to watch
number 2. The whole world economic, energy , trade centers around USA. America
has entrenched itself in a way where no one will be able to replace easily.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

Absolutely this is just US propaganda. Not going to happen. US wants to maintain a unipolar world & considers China a big threat to its hegemony. India on the other hand wants a multipolar world where its interests are its priority. In the long run US & west views both China & India as its future challengers. The problem with China is it views itself as a leader of Asia & doesn't considers India as its equal & wants to dominate the region. India obviously doesn't want China to get all too powerful & tries to maintains balance. US wants to use India as a tool against China to keep itself as a sole superpower. I think Indian leadership is smart enough to know this.

So, you think our Govt. don't know this.

That's why we are purchasing one rifle from Russia and one from US.

That's why we are purchasing missile defense system S400 from Russia and sub-marine killer MH60 Romeo choppers from US.

India is so upfront about it that it even said in a joint conference of India & US.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Dollar doesn't help as USA is getting de industrialized. Dollar was made global currency when USA was the largest industrial power . Now china is largest manufacturer in the world by a lot.

Infact powerful dollar is one of the reasons why manufacturing is failing in USA. Who will us stuff with dollar being so high.

Result more unemployment stagnant wages in USA even as cost of living is sky high all thanks to mighty dollar .

USA can't bring back manufacturing and generate mass employment untill dollar remains global currency. Though USA can keep printing more dollars and import stuff from. World over to satisfy it's middle and upper classes.

USA has a printing press . It can print all the money it needs to get thru these hard times.
No other country has this luxury.

 

[cereal killer]

So, you think our Govt. don't know this.

That's why we are purchasing one rifle from Russia and one from US.

That's why we are purchasing missile defense system S400 from Russia and sub-marine killer MH60 Romeo choppers from US.

India is so upfront about it that it even said in a joint conference of India & US.

Read the last line I my reply. Indian foreign policy is all about balance. We like to fly under the radar.

 

[IndianHawk]

USA has a printing press . It can print all the money it needs to get thru these hard times.
No other country has this luxury.

Yup but that money can only be used to import more stuff as USA manufacturing can't succeed because of might of dollars. So even as dollar remains strong USA is actually loosing both industries and middle class . Why do you think there is so much unrest in USA now .

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Yup but that money can only be used to import more stuff as USA manufacturing can't succeed because of might of dollars. So even as dollar remains strong USA is actually loosing both industries and middle class . Why do you think there is so much unrest in USA now .

USA has reoriented it's economy , it is more service and technology based.
Manufacturing is being shifted to Mexico. US middle class has been declining
but this will change once economy springs back.

 

[IndianHawk]

They’ve grown big economically. Militarily they are weaker than Russia.
But with enough time and money and if left unchecked, they could grow in the military domain too, in the decades to come.

This definitely worries the current powers to be.

China is already a bigger economy than USA. It will catch up in military tech in next two decades.

By then India would surpass USA too in gdp ppp.

So we will have a world with four major poles.
China India USA and EU ( if it remains together).

That's by definition a multipolar world.

 

[IndianHawk]

USA has reoriented it's economy , it is more service and technology based.
Manufacturing is being shifted to Mexico. US middle class has been declining
but this will change once economy springs back.

By definition service and tech don't need much people but few high skilled people.
You need manufacturing to sustain mass employment and middle class.

 

[Bhadra]

This minimum distance thing was always a duplicitous requirement. What is minimum distance capability of spike ?

If you know about the weapon system, then asking such a question is a sin. I can not kill a tank up to 800 meters in front of me then I might as well not have that missile.

How has spike come in between? Spike has been bought because DODO have failed to deliver anti tank missile since 1964 when they first started working on one... even with a minimum range of 800 meters..

Spike is a minimum 200 m range missile... which is covered by 84mm Carl Gustav... Indian Army can not cover a blind zone more than that... Huh

 

[IndianHawk]

If you know about the weapon system, then asking such a question is a sin. I can not kill a tank up to 800 meters in front of me then I might as well not have that missile.

How has spike come in between? Spike has been bought because DODO have failed to deliver anti tank missile since 1964 when they first started working on one... even with a minimum range of 800 meters..

Spike is a minimum 200 m range missile... which is covered by 84mm Carl Gustav... Indian Army can not cover a blind zone more than that... Huh

I don't know man . There was lots of mud sliding between Israel and drdo over these issues. I have forgotten what they were fighting about.

 

[hit&run]

I like this fear.

Looks like Chinese whispered into his ears.

He is giving Casus belli to China when none exist.

Chinese incursion every year counts in tens if not hundreds.

All this mental gymnastics, was concluded with following political rant.

Last but not the least, once the status quo has been restored, we must hold the Narendra Modi government and the military accountable for the intelligence failure, the loss of territory, if any, that has taken place, and the asymmetry with respect to our capability vis-a vis China.

He is the same person who barks ad nauseam about poor infrastructure. Now cleverly opting on ‘an egg first or hen first’ fallacy to cover his agenda.

He wants Indian army to first secure Chinese ingression points then develop infrastructure.

Moron will then again criticise army on Chinese counter reaction for being aggressive without sustainable logistical support.

Con-man like him give propaganda tips to adversary and create pressure on government that may have few other things in hand to look after.

He want briefing from GOI so that he can give more spins to charm his librandu followers. Not to mention he is compulsive Modi hater who can only criticise.

The guarded bravado he has used is to not sound army chider and predicts slatemate which make all his analysis moot and criticism cynical.

His usual BAKWAAS on 370 which he is doing since day one and implying that India will capture Askai Chin with vague timeline and at the same time making it look imminent is nothing but chicanery.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

By definition service and tech don't need much people but few high skilled people.
You need manufacturing to sustain mass employment and middle class.

many new technologies and industries are being developed. The traditional
factory line manufacturing of 100 years ago has changed.

 

[another_armchair]

Your own link says 22 Apache cost 1.4 billion including infrastructure and spares. Please read it carefully.

Multiple sources put the 22 Apache + 15 Chinooks deal at upwards of $3 billion.

The $1.4 billion is not specific about inclusions.

Moot point however was to highlight prioritizing precious little budget to fulfill more pressing requirements than a big fat ticket purchase which could have waited.

Regardless, doubt if we will ever know whether Army stomped its feet and demanded the 6 Apaches or the push came from MoD itself to close a deal to give Namaste Trump a happy ending. IMO, it was the latter.

Anyway, with no Govt. source to cite the actual money paid for the 22 + 6, I rest my case as this will drag on forever and derail the thread.

 

[vampyrbladez]

China believes India wants Aksai Chin back. PLA has likely secured 40-60 sq km in Ladakh

China believes India wants Aksai Chin back. PLA has likely secured 40-60 sq km in Ladakh

Ladakh is the only area where physical military collusion can take place between Pakistan and China.

theprint.in

This a detailed analysis by a former Army Commander Northern Command. In spite of his political affiliation and anti-Modi political instance, whatever has been highlighted in the article has lot of substance in it and should not be brushed aside.

Whatever may be the actual situation on ground two points I too wish to highlight which deserves attention.

First - If there has been such a build-up of Chinese troops it can not happen over night. Nor can such movement be construed as a routine activity. The way deployment is taking place and reaction are emerging, it is clear Indian Army had no knowledge of this build-up. That is a clear cut intelligence failure on the part of R&AW and the IB. Heads are going to fall...

Second - The LAC management is with ITBP but not under command of the Army. How can Army be kept away from the management of such volatile LAC. The question arises that if the ITBP is not under command of the Army then the reporting channels are not through Army. Then how does one expect Army to keep abreast of the situation on LAC?

Is this a repeat of fiasco prior to 1962 when BN Malik, the director of IB kept the Army in dark about whatever was happening while playing with CRPF as a military force and then suddenly pushed Army on to slaughter platform.

Two days ago, an article has appeared in a prominent paper (quoted by me in Police thread) wherein a hue a cry has been raised about govt not appointing DG ITBP etc. I think the IPS and CAPF brass know about the fiasco that has taken place and are finding excuses in advance. Are they raising alibis?

If indeed such a scenario is present, I can assuredly tell that it is a plain conspiracy on the part of bureaucracy and Army perhaps has been put into a tight situation. There is no medal for guessing what will happen to Modi regime ??

There is still time and the conspiracy needs to be nipped in the bud. Guilty men of 2020 have to be found.

India China-LAC with ITBP but not under command Army is an inexorable sin. Whatever may the case this is a height of bureaucratic selfishness and one man up ship of IPS brasses under a man of the caliber of Ajit Dobhal. Now , if the situation is that what will happen is no one's guess. Loss of one piece of territory would be a disaster...

Coming from a military family, I salute and thank all veterans like @Bhadra for their selfless service and this of course extends to Lt. Gen. Panag (Retd.) but I must rebut him in his opinion piece.


Go through this thread please.

BTW we have 11 Divisions vs PLA's 1.5 Divisions. There are no satellite images showing Chinese ingress into Indian territory.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

So we will have a world with four major poles.
China India USA and EU ( if it remains together).

That's by definition a multipolar world.

EU is being considered one pole but cracks are developing and also in NATO

 

[Bhadra]

Looks like Chinese whispered into his ears.

He is giving Casus belli to China when none exist.

Chinese incursion every year counts in tens if not hundreds.

All this mental gymnastics, was concluded with following political rant.



He is the same person who barks ad nauseam about poor infrastructure. Now cleverly opting on ‘an egg first or hen first’ fallacy to cover his agenda.

He wants Indian army to first secure Chinese ingression points then develop infrastructure.

Moron will then again criticise army on Chinese counter reaction for being aggressive without sustainable logistical support.

Con-man like him give propaganda tips to adversary and create pressure on government that may have few other things in hand to look after.

He want briefing from GOI so that he can give more spins to charm his librandu followers. Not to mention he is compulsive Modi hater who can only criticise.

The guarded bravado he has used is to not sound army chider and predicts slatemate which make all his analysis moot and criticism cynical.

His usual BAKWAAS on 370 which he is doing since day one and implying that India will capture Askai Chin with vague timeline and at the same time making it look imminent is nothing but chicanery.

Sorry sir, such bull shit would not do. His arguments are required to be put down or rebutted by facts and facts only or a military logic ...

Not this way of exercising your fundamental right to write rubbish...

Tell us there was no Intelligence failure and Army was told in advance about such a build up...
Let us begin from there...

 

[vampyrbladez]

Sorry sir, such bull shit would not do. His arguments are required to be put down or rebutted by facts and facts only or a military logic ...

Not this way of exercising your fundamental right to write rubbish...

Tell us there was no Intelligence failure and Army was told in advance about such a build up...
Let us begin from there...

As per OSINT Satellite images, this is the current position of troops on both sides.

 

[hit&run]

Coming from a military family, I salute and thank all veterans like @Bhadra for their selfless service and this of course extends to Lt. Gen. Panag (Retd.) but I must rebut him in his opinion piece.


Go through this thread please.

BTW we have 11 Divisions vs PLA's 1.5 Divisions. There are no satellite images showing Chinese ingress into Indian territory.

His whole article is full of vague claims blaming India for current Chinese aggression.

He thinks China thinks India is thinking to capture Askai Chin but does not have capabilities to invade which he knows clearly but innocent Chinese don’t therefore India must stop all infra projects to get back to post 1962 status quo which poor Chinese have been breaching and must be allowed to do so which he won’t talk about rather will blame India for the same as well.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

His whole article is full of vague claims blaming India for current Chinese aggression.

He thinks China thinks India is thinking to capture Askai Chin but does not have capabilities to invade which he knows clearly but innocent Chinese don’t therefore India must stop all infra projects to get back to post 1962 status quo which poor Chinese have been breaching and must be allowed to do so which he won’t talk about rather will blame India for the same as well.

I have been seeing a lot of Indian media articles all towing the Chinese line.
Chinese propaganda busy in India or lot of anti nationals in the media??China
building the narrative of India being the aggressor maybe trying to influence
a anti-modi view?

 

[ataru09]

Meanwhile our friends in USA are getting worked up.
It's almost like USA is looking at every chance now to screw china.lol


Don't take it seriously though. Lol

How about joint Indo US patrols on the Mexico border to combat illegal immigration?