India China LAC & International Border Discussions

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Sridhar_TN

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Give me options .... Not that the issue can not be resolved... The problem of the population is in India first. What do you do with 34 Crore Muslims ? If we are bound to manage them then why not some more?
I’m asking you. I don’t have a clue on how that’s going to go down. Having a fetish for annexing back POK, which can be claimed as rightfully India’s. Agree with that.

What do you do with the people then. Add more of them? Hoe can we manage some more? Soon, you will have a movement from within for a separate country.

How about forming new provinces/regions within Pakistan( meaning dividing Pakistan into new countries with a democracy based theme) , and encouraging a one time permanent move to Pakistan for Indian citizens. Market that as a naya and prosperous Pakistan which will develop into a super awesome country. 😂😂
 

Bhadra

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Indian army under British colonial rule was perfect indian civilian killing machine.
in British Indian Army was the principal military of the British Indian Empire before its decommissioning in 1947. It was after 1947 that indian army for republic of india existed before that they were serving interest of foreign powers for money and pension.
They ruthlessly slaughtered lakhs of local people.
Even in jaliyanwalabagh it was indian army which killed people at shoot at sight order.
Anyway who cares if we paid them technically the goal of British empire was to milk resources out of isn't it and there was no sovereign government of india. Every tax which was collated it was collected in the name viceroy of india nothing was indian in it only blood was indina.
Technically when Indian people were dying from hunger in bengal we were playing for ww2.
And indiq provided one of the highest number of soldiers and raw materials to foreign nations.

Why Indian's can't stop glorifying that indian killing machine of colonial era. ✋
Indian Army was the supreme and Ultimate instrument of state power under the British and continues to be the same even now.

After the Mutiny of 1957, I know of very few incidents when Indian Army was used to kill Civilian ) Jalinwala Bagh and Orders to Fire on Lal Kurti workers of Khan Abdul gaffar Khan in Frontier Province which Indian Soldiers refused to obey and Hav Chandar Singh Garhwali was jailed for that in mandley... are but countable on finger tips.

Indian Police was the political killer machine and continue to e so. I thing the largest civilian killing took place in British Campaign to eliminate Thuggary in Central Province and Suppression of Sanyasi Movement in Bihar and Bengal..

Otherwise, economic devastation, destruction of local industry, agrarian policy and Taxation, lack of employment, draughts and femines, plagues and epidemics were the major killers... followed by military campaigns which killed and maimed lakhs of Indians,,,,

The problem is making huge statements without adequate knowledge base is a dangerous thing to do...
 

WARREN SS

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Bhadra

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Annexing pok will gave us more headache . More Money need. Spend on them . Annexing pok is not profitable for us now .
This has to be weighed in terms of cost-benefit analysis. To me it is better to finish the problem than fight another thousand years Jihadi wars. These Jihadi wars are tying down the progress of Indian civilization.
 

Sridhar_TN

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This has to be weighed in terms of cost-benefit analysis. To me it is better to finish the problem than fight another thousand years Jihadi wars. These Jihadi wars are tying down the progress of Indian civilization.
To do that, you start a movement within first, cleaning up the wahabi fanatized folks. South India, UP, MP, Delhi etc... I mean an agency sanctioned op either by RAW or IB or some new division. Infiltrating all the madrasas and Sunni school of thought

Transform the entire wahabi population into a malleable and weaker fabric , who are more focused on participating in the economy rather than practicing 1rst century style living. Even the saudis don’t do that. You have folks in The US from India who are so hardcore about not watching tv. For fucks sake. These guys are worse than any Arab person I’ve met. Even the Arabs are a lot more progressive.

With respect to Pakistan, divide. Just as subbu samy has said. Make it into smaller democratic areas. Enshrine principles of democracy and secularism there. This jihadist attitude and wahabi mentality will disappear once and for all if there is enough money flowing into the average household.
 

Bhadra

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I’m asking you. I don’t have a clue on how that’s going to go down. Having a fetish for annexing back POK, which can be claimed as rightfully India’s. Agree with that.

What do you do with the people then. Add more of them? Hoe can we manage some more? Soon, you will have a movement from within for a separate country.

How about forming new provinces/regions within Pakistan( meaning dividing Pakistan into new countries with a democracy based theme) , and encouraging a one time permanent move to Pakistan for Indian citizens. Market that as a naya and prosperous Pakistan which will develop into a super awesome country. 😂😂
POK and GB can be two more UTs....
It would add only two more MPs to Indian Parliament.
Declare Muslims as the Majority community in Gilgit and Baltistan as also in UT of Kashmir. They should not be allowed a minority status as they are not minority there.
Amalgamate POK with UT of Kashmir and Jammu based on contiguous territories based on the residential status of 1947.

Problems is not an amalgamation of POK and GB but that is Pakistan.... which should note accepted by India.... those who are gone are gone ... they can exist as three independent states...
 
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FGFAPilot1

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Actually i did self assessment and its spot on, while you spinned things, worthless self boasting has been actually as a historical fact suicidal, that's why self assessment is required not ego satisfaction,

All those victories goes to british empire not INDIAN empire.
I didn't talk about gun/weapon economics, i talked about modern weapons technology,industrial base, tactics and discipline which British introduced and the planning and leadership by British officers in battles.

Yep, i looked at all of them and found out outdated tactics and no gains/conquests of any kind and incapable to put on a organized front against onslaught and DEFEATS.

Maharana LOST as simple as that, he was brave and all but he did not win, also its mewar he fought for my contention was organized front for INDIA, also what about afghan hindu kingdom or todays Pakistan or Delhi or UP, why only boast about deserts of rajasthan ?
If rajasthan was green like UP, Bihar it would have the same fate as Delhi.

Maratha empire or Maratha confederacy, ok here we have innovative guerilla tactics but comparatively short lived came too late, again became too unorganised and egoistic towards the end.
Also even in maratha empire territories were still under muslim nawabs, they just accepted maratha supermacy so on ground for Indians jehadi atrocities continued and they weren't free.

Sikh empire again came too late truly rose in power vaccum post maratha-afghan war in which both armies destroyed each other, maratha empire was never the same again.
Sikh empire came into being due to brutal atrocities of jehadis, by the time it became powerful, even more modern, disciplined colonialist powers had started coming to India.

My point still stands they couldn't even think of conquest outside India until/unless they were lead there by Britishers.

That's literally what i said "they used subcontinent people to conquer subcontinent" and somehow people boast about it.


No, British Indian army trained by Britishers, transported there in British navy boats, using guns, ammo, artillery developed by British technology, lead by British officers and battles plans and tactics devised by Britishers, Indians just took Orders of there colonial masters and not to mention fighting BRITISH WAR not Indian war.
I mean how can they conquer Europe when they themselves were already conquered and not free?

Let me trigger you a little they were slave soldiers who followed their colonial masters order to fight into a battle which wasn't there's.
I never said they weren't Brave, if that's what you are confusing.

1000 years is a long time for such a Huge population to be under foreigners, yet we failed to evolve and organise ourselves to free our land, let alone conquering outside India, and people rather than SELF ASSESSMENT keep on boasting.
It kind of still plagues us in modern history.
My last post on this thread.

I completely agree, this isn't self loathing, it is introspection. One thing we as a civilization lack is the ability to develop and mount proper defense. We have still to figure out that some times aggression which is preemptive is important and this is reflected in the large swathe of land which we politically consider our own but do not control.

We can all debate about what the actual boundaries of 'India' are but we cannot disregard that we still have not been able to administer our own political boundary which we officially have a stand on. What use is our knowledge and skill when anyone from outside can take control and use our own qualities and skill against us. China has a good foothold in the narrative inside our boundary such that a large section of our population and our administrative and academic population is highly leftist, we have zero narrative creating power even in our own land.

I only hope that along our eastern border with China we do not start to balkanize.

It may be true that nothing serious is happening in the Ladhak sector and we our the ones provoking China, but I wager that this is an opportune time where the narrative against China can be very easily created since they have a negative perception around the world at the moment.

Since almost everyone agrees that we are now generally in a more advantageous position why don't we start salami slicing into our own territory?
 

amit204

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Annexing pok will gave us more headache . More Money need. Spend on them . Annexing pok is not profitable for us now .
Annexation means only capture the strategically important points may be 10% of the area.
1. we need a land route to afgan for sure.
2. we need to own the security of CPEC, and charge money to Chinese since it will go through the Indian own lands after annexation.At that point all the important business route and India will be at the equal table to decide how to bend the CPEC business routes to India favour.

I dont think we need to own the remaining 90% land of PoK. This will serve the best purpose for India. and World will say India did nothing, and India quietly acquire important 10% area. Pak will get face saving that we defeat India and prevent PoK annex. Both side win win.
 

Karthi

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This has to be weighed in terms of cost-benefit analysis. To me it is better to finish the problem than fight another thousand years Jihadi wars. These Jihadi wars are tying down the progress of Indian civilization.
Don't worry we can take back it within two or three decades . We need to gain strength to control UN, and should have economic might to make others stay with us . Don't be in a hurry. Patience bro patience , 75 year is nothing in the history of our country
 

Karthi

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Annexation means only capture the strategically important points may be 10% of the area.
1. we need a land route to afgan for sure.
2. we need to own the security of CPEC, and charge money to Chinese since it will go through the Indian own lands after annexation.At that point all the important business route and India will be at the equal table to decide how to bend the CPEC business routes to India favour.

I dont think we need to own the remaining 90% land of PoK. This will serve the best purpose for India. and World will say India did nothing, and India quietly acquire important 10% area. Pak will get face saving that we defeat India and prevent PoK annex. Both side win win.

It will certainly attract the wrath of China . We need to concentrate on our economy now wait for an opportunity / perfect reason to attack Porks , defeat them take back pok similar like 1971 .
 

Gshvar

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Request Need get all 144 M777
ASAP
Request can be made To get US Army Stock on lease New DPP 2020 insure it
Made 1000-2000 Spice 2000 kits to integrate With MKI's and Mirage and UPG
Request New Vacum sabots from Russians

More Spike ER and Kornet E
This is the only thing which pisses every one off. Buy from here, then buy from there but don't develop own systems and equipment. I will agree to disagree that India lacks talent. The problem and the biggest hurdle with Indian security apparatus and weapon Industry is pressure from US. They won't allow you to build your own technology. Because many politicians in India have a baggage of favor from US. The day you start developing systems some minister will be asked to change it's portfolio. And this had been happening past 70 years. I expect this trend to change from last year.

The best reason and need behind developing own system is:

1. continuous supply + tech advancement + job+ independence in weapon systems+etc
2. Confidence
3. Secrecy of electronic signatures in case of electronic weaponry , radar and communication devices

You use one communication equipment or jamming device it's signature and data get recorded by the adversary and it becomes compromised to be used for the next event.

Pakistan exposed all it's equipment and their electronic signature on 27th February last year and now their whole air fleet is compromised. And will take decade for them to replenish it.

There is a large requirement in the armed forces, and unless until India doesn't start developing it's own there will be intrusion and bully. But once every one realizes your weapon development capability, may be no one will even try to intrude, forget firing the bullet.
 

amit204

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It will certainly attract the wrath of China . We need to concentrate on our economy now wait for an opportunity / perfect reason to attack Porks , defeat them take back pok similar like 1971 .
I dont think that china will object PoK annex.
1. China is frustated with Pak, since Pak has more loyalty to CIA and white house.
2. Despite putting more dollars to the CPEC there is very little progress.
3. China had repeatedly request India to join CPEC, since they know if India join, India can balance the white house influence and make CPEC real and sutainable.
4. So China will allow India to annex PoK, as in longer term this is the only way to make CPEC stable, sustainable and alive able.

Without India support, CPEC is only a far fetched dream will never see the day to light.
1. India will put money behind Iran port and make it a competitive.
2. USCIA/White house will pressurize the Pak, Afgan, balock to destablize CPEC.
 

WARREN SS

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This is the only thing which pisses every one off. Buy from here, then buy from there but don't develop own systems and equipment. I will agree to disagree that India lacks talent. The problem and the biggest hurdle with Indian security apparatus and weapon Industry is pressure from US. They won't allow you to build your own technology. Because many politicians in India have a baggage of favor from US. The day you start developing systems some minister will be asked to change it's portfolio. And this had been happening past 70 years. I expect this trend to change from last year.
You missing the point Having A Indigenous Platform is Ok But To Fight war you need Best Available Platform It doesn't matter where you get them from

In war What Matter is to Achieve Objectives of the war
Every thing is Secondary

USA And Europeans Are Pioneer's in Weapon industry for 100 years

Don't expect India To catch them Soon

It doesn't matter Bullet is Indian or Exported If Its Killing your enemy
We Just started real free market industrialization in 1990
There is a large requirement in the armed forces, and unless until India doesn't start developing it's own there will be intrusion and bully. But once every one realizes your weapon development capability, may be no one will even try to intrude, forget firing the bullet.
So Do we had these Capability in previous wars

how many Nato nations have them

Geopolitics And Technical industry are to different theaters
 

cereal killer

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Annexation means only capture the strategically important points may be 10% of the area.
1. we need a land route to afgan for sure.
2. we need to own the security of CPEC, and charge money to Chinese since it will go through the Indian own lands after annexation.At that point all the important business route and India will be at the equal table to decide how to bend the CPEC business routes to India favour.

I dont think we need to own the remaining 90% land of PoK. This will serve the best purpose for India. and World will say India did nothing, and India quietly acquire important 10% area. Pak will get face saving that we defeat India and prevent PoK annex. Both side win win.
I agree but GB is not 10% area of PoK it is a big chunk of land. It is strategically more crucial as we can have direct access to Afghanistan via Wakhan corridor & central Asia. Even if Pak control its so called Azad Kashmir let them have it. We don't want too many Muslims in already a muslim dominated region. I wish it happens soon. Our Economy will be sky rocketed for sure.
 

amit204

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I agree but GB is not 10% area of PoK it is a big chunk of land. It is strategically more crucial as we can have direct access to Afghanistan via Wakhan corridor & central Asia. Even if Pak control its so called Azad Kashmir let them have it. We don't want too many Muslims in already a muslim dominated region. I wish it happens soon. Our Economy will be sky rocketed for sure.
I hope experts ( Raw, Dhoval, Army) who are getting payed for this have already a much better plan. we can only guess the high level thoughts. But at large the annexation theme will be focus on limited capture but maximum benefits.
 

cereal killer

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I hope experts ( Raw, Dhoval, Army) who are getting payed for this have already a much better plan. we can only guess the high level thoughts. But at large the annexation theme will be focus on limited capture but maximum benefits.
Yeah It will require a big operation certainly bigger than Kargil. With both S400 & Rafale coming to India in next couple of years the power balance will shift totally towards India. Timing has to be accurate & I am sure Plans are already in place. Pak Army dominates those portions & occupy heights. If India pulls this off then we will have announced ourselves as the Global power.
 
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