India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[IndianHawk]

Because we limited the conflict to kashmir and refused to cross the LOC which stopped us from counter occupation of Pakistani territory at other places.
In chinese case they are building up all over Indo-china border and they will not limit the conflict to laddakh and won't hesitate in invading from other places.
Basically Pakis knew our psyche and we don't fully know chinese psyche.

We keep paki conflict to Kashmir because we are dominant in that conflict. In 65 when we were in trouble initially we did cross not just loc but international border and reached lahore.

With china if we can't dominate a front we will certainly open another. But as of now we are dominate them heavily.

 

[right wing]

I think we are seeing a US policy since Bush II of polarization (with us or against us). India increasingly leaned towards USA/West which I think is natural too. But India lost traditional ally USSR/Russia in the process. The power balance in Asia is upset which may not get restored without some upheaval.

Either India grows stronger and protects its turf; or India makes concessions to neighbours. We will see soon which India emerges from these turbulent times.

When did India lose Russia? Even amidst these things the Russian deputy FM had detailed meetings with Indian ambassador on supply timelines.
Plus Russia needs our money to even survive with its paltry GDP ..they need us not we need them.
Our cosmonauts completed training and their teams have been cleared to land for brahmos tests.
Rarely thus Russia have such broad scale cooperation with any other nation.

 

[Jailor]

We keep paki conflict to Kashmir because we are dominant in that conflict. In 65 when we were in trouble initially we did cross not just loc but international border and reached lahore.

With china if we can't dominate a front we will certainly open another. But as of now we are dominate them heavily.

In 65 pakistan didn't have nuclear ambiguity, hence they knew our psyche.
Secondly in kargil, initially we weren't Dominant but on back foot and under severe pressure hence there were calls for crossing LOC and expanding conflict, it was only later that tide turned in our favour thanks Pakistani short sightedness in planning and the fortress of Pakistanis became their coffins as supply line was broken and PAF couldn't counter IAF as they weren't "Pakistani soldiers" but mujahid freedom fighters.

 

[IndianHawk]

Serpentine air ducts are ready.
Uttam AESA will be ready by then.
Canopy Material and yellow tint Coating is Ready
Engine will be ordered
Designed is probably in the final stage.
Paint is ready.
Composite materials are ready. (A Professor of my mine was in it as well)
DSI intake are planned for ORCA so they are probably ready for AMCA.


Don't expect the first prototype to be full on stelath 5+ gen, we will need 2 to 5 prototypes to perfect it.

Geometric stealth ( shape technology ) is ready. Work was going on over stealth skin .
Our composite game is too notch in the world already with lca having more composite than f35.
DSi intake may come with mwf itself. Not that big of a deal . They just limit too speed .

Most of the internal sensors are getting ready for other programs.
Digital rwr is done for su30. Irst and dual color maws are coming for su30 and mwf. Laser warning already for su30. Ew suite initially can be taken directly from D29 developed for mig29 upg. Or maybe upgraded for mwf already. F414 is ready and reliable.

Soup is ready .

Lots of people are going to be surprised with what comes out of AMCA.

 

[IndianHawk]

In 65 pakistan didn't have nuclear ambiguity, hence they knew our psyche.
Secondly in kargil, initially we weren't Dominant but on back foot and under severe pressure hence there were calls for crossing LOC and expanding conflict, it was only later that tide turned in our favour thanks Pakistani short sightedness in planning and the fortress of Pakistanis became their coffins as supply line was broken and PAF couldn't counter IAF as they weren't "Pakistani soldiers" but mujahid freedom fighters.

Lol you think paf didn't enter in kargil !!

Paf f16 flew to attack Indian forces but ran away when faced with mig29! We had absolute air superiority over them.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Because we limited the conflict to kashmir and refused to cross the LOC which stopped us from counter occupation of Pakistani territory at other places.
In chinese case they are building up all over Indo-china border and they will not limit the conflict to laddakh and won't hesitate in invading from other places.
Basically Pakis knew our psyche and we don't fully know chinese psyche.

All the territory is mountains.They will still be needing the ratio of 1:10.

Their AF will never have an edge over IAF.

Their Arty will not be that effective.

IAF will take out their Arty position regularly.

They have no experience of mountain warfare.

Their reserve troops are not acclamatised.

They have international pressure on them.

 

[IndianHawk]

All the territory is mountains.They will still be needing the ratio of 1:10.

Their AF will never have an edge of IAF.

Their Arty will not be that effective.

IAF will take out their Arty position regularly.

They have no experience of mountain warfare.

Their reserve troops are not acclamatised.

They have international pressure on them.

Forget having 10:1 ratio against India they are outnumbered by us right now.

 

[another_armchair]

better to develop indigenous capability ( may be too late???)

Would be happier if IA had about 500-800 BM-21's.

Imagine raining down 4 tons of HE on the enemy by a battery of 6 launchers.

They are cheap, low on maintenance and have devastating power.

We need the numbers. Super duper quality at a little less than a crore per shell can wait.
Saturation fire by PLA's rocket arty will simply take out our entire M-777 battery at one go.

Wonder what is the status of this project.

Indian Army wants ” Desi BM-21-Grad ” Multiple Rocket Launcher for Mountain terrain – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Forget having 10:1 ratio against India they are outnumbered by us right now.

i wont attack India if i was a Chinese General.

In battlefields economy dont matter much

Example..USSR against Germany WW2..Vietnam war.. Afghanistan war..Israel Arab war..Korean war..etc

 

[Jailor]

Lol you think paf didn't enter in kargil !!

Paf f16 flew to attack Indian forces but ran away

Yeah, in your imaginary world everyone runs away from us, everyone else is incapable and coward.

 

[IndianHawk]

Yeah, in your imaginary world everyone runs away from us, everyone else is incapable and coward.

Eh that's history of kargil. As described by iaf itself and accepted world over. Lol.

 

[ninja hattori]

I think we are seeing a US policy since Bush II of polarization (with us or against us). India increasingly leaned towards USA/West which I think is natural too. But India lost traditional ally USSR/Russia in the process. The power balance in Asia is upset which may not get restored without some upheaval.

Either India grows stronger and protects its turf; or India makes concessions to neighbours. We will see soon which India emerges from these turbulent times.

Russia has suffered tremendously after crimea annexation,

now even turkey is playing Russia like anything,

turkey irked NATO by buying S400,

before that Russian ambassador

Andrei Karlov ​

was shot dead,

and now Turkish drones doing naagin dance in Libya over Russians,

and we bought s400 from Russia as just part of balancing act we do and use Russia's veto power,

Russia will remain neutral,

and again we were friends with USSR not RUSSIA,

we paid that friendhip kindly by amending our constitution with SSR,

SOCIALIST SECULAR and INTEGRITY in preamble

and all this OFB and DPSUs u see are part of that socialist strategy,

that friendship has the blood and sweat of everyone here,

that made us go begging to WB two times,

and this socialist word was the one responsible what we had seen in the economic independence of our country in 1991 under PV Narsimha rao, not the clown Manmohan singh.

Our economies with china were equal till then but they opened there market before us.

While we were busy in trade unionism and labour laws strengthening on USSR model,

We suffered on human development and were charged on will by Russians for our defence at exorbitant rates.

 

[IndianHawk]

I think we are seeing a US policy since Bush II of polarization (with us or against us). India increasingly leaned towards USA/West which I think is natural too. But India lost traditional ally USSR/Russia in the process. The power balance in Asia is upset which may not get restored without some upheaval.

Either India grows stronger and protects its turf; or India makes concessions to neighbours. We will see soon which India emerges from these turbulent times.

Russian economy is half or 1/3 of India depending upon how you look at it.

There is really nothing much for Russia to offer us or anyone else other than oil and arms. But west sales even better arms. So naturally the Russia will have to either step up in massive way ( ssbn ssn ) or it will fade away.

 

[ninja hattori]

In 65 pakistan didn't have nuclear ambiguity, hence they knew our psyche.
Secondly in kargil, initially we weren't Dominant but on back foot and under severe pressure hence there were calls for crossing LOC and expanding conflict, it was only later that tide turned in our favour thanks Pakistani short sightedness in planning and the fortress of Pakistanis became their coffins as supply line was broken and PAF couldn't counter IAF as they weren't "Pakistani soldiers" but mujahid freedom fighters.

correction

they were indeed soldiers

as said by ISI general

 

[Jailor]

All the territory is mountains.They will still be needing the ratio of 1:10.

Their AF will never have an edge over IAF.

Their Arty will not be that effective.

IAF will take out their Arty position regularly.

They have no experience of mountain warfare.

Their reserve troops are not acclamatised.

They have international pressure on them.

Points 1 and 2 are speculations, chinese jets outnumber us massively,
and just assuming that their arty won't be effective is wishful thinking.

We might have a few trump cards up our sleeves too.
Anyways i was just commenting on your point of a few under armed Pakistani soldiers holding positions against IA for months, and that our current situation is not comparable to kargil wrt operational constraints put by Indian government compared to ambiguous PLA and CCP.

 

[garg_bharat]

When did India lose Russia? Even amidst these things the Russian deputy FM had detailed meetings with Indian ambassador on supply timelines.
Plus Russia needs our money to even survive with its paltry GDP ..they need us not we need them.
Our cosmonauts completed training and their teams have been cleared to land for brahmos tests.
Rarely thus Russia have such broad scale cooperation with any other nation.

The scale of cooperation with Russia is quite small at present. One indicator - no Air India flight to Moscow for last two years.

Air connections between Russia and India are at smallest in quite some time.

We need to stop looking at GDP through a Western lens. A country that has export of 450 billion USD cannot have a GDP of just 1.3 trillion. And we are talking of a very diversified economy like Russia.

 

[Jailor]

Eh that's history of kargil. As described by iaf itself and accepted world over. Lol.

You are a deluded chap, but whatever makes you happy.

 

[IndianHawk]

Would be happier if IA had about 500-800 BM-21's.

Imagine raining down 4 tons of HE on the enemy by a battery of 6 launchers.

They are cheap, low on maintenance and have devastating power.

We need the numbers. Super duper quality at a little less than a crore per shell can wait.
Saturation fire by PLA's rocket arty will simply take out our entire M-777 battery at one go.

Wonder what is the status of this project.

Indian Army wants ” Desi BM-21-Grad ” Multiple Rocket Launcher for Mountain terrain – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

Despite all the hype . Rockets don't work well in mountains.

We have to develop vertical dive for bramhos to be able to hit accurately in the mountains .

Simple rockets aren't going to be effective .

 

[BeEverVectorMan]

In 65 pakistan didn't have nuclear ambiguity, hence they knew our psyche.
Secondly in kargil, initially we weren't Dominant but on back foot and under severe pressure hence there were calls for crossing LOC and expanding conflict, it was only later that tide turned in our favour thanks Pakistani short sightedness in planning and the fortress of Pakistanis became their coffins as supply line was broken and PAF couldn't counter IAF as they weren't "Pakistani soldiers" but mujahid freedom fighters.

During kargil things had been trick then INDIAN PM Vajpayee was in a notion of peacemaker and someone close had even told him iss baar noble prize for peace pakka aapka, as IA had repeatedly briefed that they need to cross the LAC as it would have heavy causalities and India did suffered causalities...what I never liked it that PM shook hand with bastard musharaf

Sorry for going off topic

 

[IndiaRising]

So now shook law claims to have access to confidential army sitreps