India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[another_armchair]

When we don't even manufacture guns or bullets or anything else this will always be the situation when
we have limited indigenous industry

If Forces had their own money printing press, they would happly order online.
Sadly, that is not the case.

If MoD had its own printing press, it would happily oblige with a little resistance and after taking a cut.

Where do both end up ? MoF.

What does MoF do? Leans on MoD not to clear purchases.

What does that result in? Unspent money going back to the Govt. kitty, MoF patting the Babus & Forces getting serious stick from CAG.

So if there is hiccup in supply of belt fed ammo for a certain weapon, don't jump and blame OFB yet.
Maybe there is a SME supplier of belt links whose dues haven't been paid and he simply cannot burn any more cash and decides to down shutters or refuses to supply till old dues are cleared.

At least Tonbo CEO had the courage to step out of the line and call out the MoD & MoF for payment delays.

Tonbo can do it because they are a global OEM supplier. They aren't dependent on MoD alone for revenue but yes, it definitely helps their bottomline. Better than doing screw driveri or license production by BEL & its affiliates after paying an astronomical sum towards royalty and misc charges to foreign OEMs. Tonbo can criticize the Govt or at least gripe about it in public.

Can a local supplier whose dal roti depends on local defence orders dare do that?
No.

 

[mokoman]

People don't understand THAAD is one big red line which will make the bat shit eaters go bresk . Remember how they went full redpilling about economic sanctions over Soko when USA deployed THAAD in southern korea more closely to cover japan korea and also give protection to its CBGs from any land based BM threats emerging from China especially the so called carrier killer DF-21

THAAD deployed in Ladakh or Arunachal will give complete protection from Chinese BM from deep mainland territory

i think that was only because the THAAD radars will allow US to see deep into mainland china. Same advantage wont hold if placed in india .

 

[akhil mehta]

M777 assembly plant already working in India (by mahindra) mahindra already delivered 6 M777 last year . Production stopped because of coronavirus. If india is ordering more M777 howitzer gun means more guns for Army and with emergency supply of parts to india . India can assembled gun quickly means Double production = 100 M777 in a mouth (possible)
And
M777 is a British product developed by BAE SYSTEMS. India British are close ally. They will help us.

Indian Army’s M777 regiment to get 3 made-in-India guns

Of the 18 howitzers with which the army is raising its first regiment, 15 are being supplied by BAE Systems and three by its Indian partner Mahindra Defence, said the second official, also on condition of anonymity.

www.hindustantimes.com

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Vodka brothers .


I think the Russians will drop us first before we drop them , when they start selling arms to Pakistan .

Russians have been seeling arms to Pakistan for almost 15 years what they could not sell
they had Ukraine sell . India is not a top ten trading partner of Russia they must have
dropped us but we did not realize it??

Russia’s Top Trading Partners 2021

Russia’s top trading partners in 2021 key statistics including trade deficits & surpluses by country

www.worldstopexports.com

1. China: US$56.8 billion (13.4% of Russia’s total exports)
2. Netherlands: $44.8 billion (10.6%)
3. Germany: $28 billion (6.6%)
4. Turkey: $21.1 billion (5s%)
5. Belarus: $20.5 billion (4.9%)
6. South Korea: $16.4 billion (3.9%)
7. Italy: $14.3 billion (3.4%)
8. Kazakhstan: $14.1 billion (3.3%)
9. United Kingdom: $13.3 billion (3.1%)
10. United States: $13.2 billion (3.1%)
11. Poland: $12.4 billion (2.9%)
12. Japan: $11.4 billion (2.7%)
13. Finland: $10.1 billion (2.4%)
14. India: $7.3 billion (1.7%)
15. Belgium: $6.8 billion (1.6%)

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Now I don't think we should discard Russia totally here. In case of a conflict with Pakistan US may not fully support us. Everyone will play games which suits them here.

Russia may choose pakistan chinese pressure will be on them

 

[Knowitall]

Is there any confirmation on this at all like from any news outlet.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

If Forces had their own money printing press, they would happly order online.
Sadly, that is not the case.

If MoD had its own printing press, it would happily oblige with a little resistance and after taking a cut.

Where do both end up ? MoF.

What does MoF do? Leans on MoD not to clear purchases.

What does that result in? Unspent money going back to the Govt. kitty, MoF patting the Babus & Forces getting serious stick from CAG.

So if there is hiccup in supply of belt fed ammo for a certain weapon, don't jump and blame OFB yet.
Maybe there is a SME supplier of belt links whose dues haven't been paid and he simply cannot burn any more cash and decides to down shutters or refuses to supply till old dues are cleared.

At least Tonbo CEO had the courage to step out of the line and call out the MoD & MoF for payment delays.

Tonbo can do it because they are a global OEM supplier. They aren't dependent on MoD alone for revenue but yes, it definitely helps their bottomline. Better than doing screw driveri or license production by BEL & its affiliates after paying an astronomical sum towards royalty and misc charges to foreign OEMs. Tonbo can criticize the Govt or at least gripe about it in public.

Can a local supplier whose dal roti depends on local defence orders dare do that?
No.

if you have seen my posts for last few decades you would see i always prefer
indigenous weapons even with their flaws.(which can always be fixed later)

 

[scatterStorm]

People don't understand THAAD is one big red line which will make the bat shit eaters go bresk . Remember how they went full redpilling about economic sanctions over Soko when USA deployed THAAD in southern korea more closely to cover japan korea and also give protection to its CBGs from any land based BM threats emerging from China especially the so called carrier killer DF-21

THAAD deployed in Ladakh or Arunachal will give complete protection from Chinese BM from deep mainland territory

If we deployed THAAD, say goodbye to our BMD, or a the very least make the current push to "self reliance" a joke. Plus DRDO won't be happy either, considering we've pored crores of rupees in BMD too.

PAD can do the same right? AAD can cover lower stages of terminal interception. AAD was so successful that it actually used PAD as target. PAD at terminal stage! AAD can intercept cruise missiles too. I don't see THAAD do that, considering there recent test in 2019 was some para dropped terminal stage simulating object.

Besides PAD and AAD both uses Swordfish radar (For mid course corrections).

 

[BeEverVectorMan]

Right a good investment for PoK anyways. Koi toh pitega hi. Either master or slave

Both of them will be banged this time saala bahoot hogaya ek terrorist create karta hai toh dusara virus

 

[Spindrift]

I think the Russians will drop us first before we drop them , when they start selling arms to Pakistan .

I hope you do realize that "selling" involves money (the buyer needs to give money to the seller) and the Pakis don't have any (money) and the Russians aren't going to give them things for free.

 

[cereal killer]

Russia may choose pakistan chinese pressure will be on them

Well we can all speculate but we all know US will always take a measured response in case of Indo-Pak conflict. Most of our equipment is still Russian made so we need to slowly phase them out not all of a sudden.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Well we can all speculate but we all know US will always take a measured response in case of Indo-Pak conflict. Most of our equipment is still Russian made so we need to slowly phase them out not all of a sudden.

better to develop indigenous capability ( may be too late???)

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I hope you do realize that "selling" involves money (the buyer needs to give money to the seller) and the Pakis don't have any (money) and the Russians aren't going to give them things for free.

they will take soft loans from china, they always find a way
IMF,ADB etc....

 

[Jailor]

if you have seen my posts for last few decades

How f****** old are you?

 

[BeEverVectorMan]

That's the problem we have on our parts if we make why our politician feels they can't earn through deals if buyer ka zamana hai toh seller ka bhi zamana hai
Trust your engineers and have faith in them too ...we too can make weapons which will be as effective as others

 

[mokoman]

Russians have been seeling arms to Pakistan for almost 15 years what they could not sell
they had Ukraine sell . India is not a top ten trading partner of Russia they must have
dropped us but we did not realize it??

I dont think the russians sold anything of value to pakistan . I remember reading bout some drama on improved Pak-Russia relationship , it really had riled us up.

Plus joint programs with the Russians gave us brahmos , reactor for nuclear sub , they are also training our astronauts , i would'nt say they dropped us , but in case of war maybe they will backstab us silently .

 

[LETHALFORCE]

How f****** old are you?

PM me don't want to derail thread.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I dont think the russians sold anything of value to pakistan . I remember reading bout some drama on improved Pak-Russia relationship , it really had riled us up.

Plus joint programs with the Russians gave us brahmos , reactor for nuclear sub , they are also training our astronauts , i would'nt say they dropped us , but in case of war maybe they will backstab us silently .

all chinese planes in pakistan come with russian engines. mid air refueller from Ukraine(russian copy)
Pakistan missiles mostly from russian SCUD origins.,brahmos we never got the source codes.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

Empty posturing by Russia. It knows Europe Canada would oppose Russian entry anyway.

Even BOJO is dead set against Russian entry..

 

[Aaj ka hero]

For Chinese who are on high ground this thing happened twenty years ago can be repeated again.
And also russia don't like China first of all.
Also, Russia troops are stationed near their NEW FOUND ALLY China border and with their tanks and what not and ALSO IT'S ONE OF THEIR BIGGEST concentrations so, I don't see any bonhomie here.
So, Russia will not do anything, we better be concerned about spare parts supply from them and I think that has not stopped untill now.
Let's see if this thing goes hot.