India China LAC & International Border Discussions

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Shashank Nayak

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Jeff agrees....
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Why have I trusted @nitingokhale's reporting on the China-India border issues over other, more sensational claims that have since proven unreliable? Because in the years I've known him he's proven to be a patriot with good contacts and no political agenda interested in the facts.

Then again Jeff is more pro GOI .. There are equal numbers who say the same thing extolling Shukla..
Its ultimately upto GOI to officially clarify.. Sources vs Sources will not work..
 

Blue Water Navy

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Now, what does that mean ? Until the situation changes we assume anything based on which political camp we are in ? So, if you are BJP - No intrusion in Galwan valley on India's side of LAC.. If Congress- Chinese troops are holidaying in Galwan valley on India's side of LAC..? Does GOI does not want to set the narrative during a crisis ?
Giving a statement can represent many things. Taking a stand, accepting the Chinese intrusion, or not. CCP is mouthing it but India is silent. If something happens then India can tell it tried to resolve the matter peacefully. And not to mention its an on-going process.
 

ezsasa

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Then again Jeff is more pro GOI .. There are equal numbers who say the same thing extolling Shukla..
Jeff is a patriot , unlike many of his colleagues who deal with India related matters. Him & his think tank “Heritage Foundation” is part of the anti-China group within US think tank community. Most of his “India expert” colleagues are subservient to their ideologies, while majority of them being libtards.

it just so happens that current Indian govt is not bending over backwards to please China. If next Indian govt becomes pro-china, fully expect this chap to be critical of India.

and the worst are our coconuts in Washington in the thunk tank community there, na ghar ka na ghat ka. waste fellows...
 

Shashank Nayak

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Giving a statement can represent many things. Taking a stand, accepting the Chinese intrusion, or not. CCP is mouthing it but India is silent. If something happens then India can tell it tried to resolve the matter peacefully. And not to mention its an on-going process.
Well then, the thing is there could well be chinese troops on India's side of Galwan valley, as GOI has not officially denied it. Lets see how this pans out..
 

right wing

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Both Ajai Shukla and Praveen contine to say that chinese troops are still present inside the Galwan valley on India's side of the LAC. Whereas Nitin Gokhale claims there is no incursion in Galwan valley on India's side of the LAC.
So, the question is, what stops the Government from officially saying "There are no chinese troops in the Galwan valley on India's side of the LAC" ?
Arey the defense minister and home minister have given around half a dozen interviews stating the same , the ladakh MP has said it ..what more higher level of confirmation do we want?
 

IndianHawk

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Remember, 75 F-16s are just a number. What they have in operational condition to fly are just about 40-45 F-16s due to shortage of spares.
The block 52 f16 are even less. Most are older second hand f16s sourced from jordon etc.
 

Hellfire

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I inferred from that post and even the present one is that terrain is out of your reach.
So we will strictly follow military logic..... no bunkum.
What terrain?

Marked. Rough approximation. Let's have the military logic and .... no bumkum.


X1.JPG

Fig 1: LAC as approximately held denoted by red line (for the Lake). Territory of own forces with blue/violet. Enemy forces red.


X2.JPG


Fig 2: Example of placement of 1 x Zu 23/ Bofors L-70 on either banks

X3.JPG

Fig 3: Example of siting of Zu-23/Bofors L-70 on either side. Own bank (from POV) in reverse slope.

Weapons proposed:

Bofors L-70 40 mm - range 12500 meters
Medak 30 mm - range 4000 meters
Zu-23 23 mm - range 2500 meters
14.5 mm FAT (KPVT; if any are around still apart from few sector stores) - range 3000 meters


So time and space has meaning to you. It is very important though.
Interesting. Why, was it an exclusive attribute?

What exactly makes you think that I have neither the concept nor the experience of being able to talk of mountain/desert/high altitude/amphibious/airborne operations?

Capacity to hold a piece of ground also has a factor called enemy - who easy is it for the enemy to take it.
Since you insist:

X4.JPG



Note the word means an ability - in this case, to hold ground. What determines the ability to hold ground in adverse situations wherein an enemy is expected to launch offensive ops?


Principles? Ok the principle simply is to screw the enemy. establish a bridgehead . expand and breakout. It it can be done on Satluj. Chenab, Sindh River or Hakara canal why can not it be done on Pengang Tso.
Look carefully at the maps posted above. Geographical constraints?

Offensive ops across Canals in plains have the advantage in flexibility of choosing the breach/fording points depending on assessment of enemy strong points/weakness where as in case of Pangong Tso? Really? Is that what you are going to throw?


The troops will come by boat. You Zu-23 would have fu**ed by heavy 155mm shelling or a direct shot of RPG or bigger guns on assault boats.
Really????

Please do educate me on the probability of a 155 mm in eliminating a bunker with a 24 inch concretized structure and a 12 inches overhead sand/earth protection, located on a reverse slope/reinforced in plain area? This, a structure giving a 36 inches overhead protection and reinforced for 203 mm caliber.


There will contest to capture the shore. After foothold is established it will be expanded by further penetration and waves of troops will land.
How? Again, you are dissecting and arguing for a case which you have placed on a very weak pedestal.

Your 'contest' will come into play only if you are able to place adequate forces along the banks, as can be appreciated in the maps I have placed above, to deny opposing forces the opportunity to eliminate the 'Landing Force' (so to speak). And when I have said 'capacity' what does it indicate? A handover on a platter? So that the said force is unopposed?


What so big a deal Yaara. If PLA can plan to go to Taiwan and do that why not Pengagng Tso. Why this mental block.
Thanks for teaching me amphibious operations. Apparently I know jack.......!

Now open your own mental block .... I can defend the place. And deny the waterways in that area.

What did Shri Hanuman Ji do over the water? Did he go there to fish ? How did Siyapati Ramchandra Ji overcome water without fishing? All Navies in the world use water for fishing?
Water like earth and air is a medium brother which is used for motion, dynamics, acceleration ... whatever .. simply call that as a movement. Faster movement than on earth... do not you know that ? Unless you belong to the category who consider travelling over water as "Dharma Bhrusta".
Wow.

I doubt even now you would have understood.
Precisely the manifestation of the limitation of the higher leadership in forces too. They think they know better. And assume the other has no clue.

Cheers
 
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Blue Water Navy

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None of them have aesa. All are mechanical pesa with limited range and limited number of tracs.

That's why lca mk1a will absolutely demolish their f16 unless they can get an extensive upgrade.
A little bit off topic. Just curious we are upgrading our fleet of sukhois, right? Which AESA radar we are getting?
 

Yeloblu

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IndianHawk

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cereal killer

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Giving a statement can represent many things. Taking a stand, accepting the Chinese intrusion, or not. CCP is mouthing it but India is silent. If something happens then India can tell it tried to resolve the matter peacefully. And not to mention its an on-going process.
That's why I think GOI is handling all this very calmly. No official statements have come about the exact position of LAC currently. I think we should all wait it out to see how this goes.
 

ezsasa

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A little bit off topic. Just curious we are upgrading our fleet of sukhois, right? Which AESA radar we are getting?
I think it is safe to assume India is not gonna get AESA from Russia, might as well start working on alternative strategies.
Both are not even able to CO-ordinate for a AK factory, where is the question on AESA? I highly doubt it.
 

IndianHawk

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That's why I think GOI is handling all this very calmly. No official statements have come about the exact position of LAC currently. I think we should all wait it out to see how this goes.
Goi is using age old dictum. Speak less and carry a large stick. Chinese understand the stick part much better. Hence disengagement.
 

Blue Water Navy

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I think it is safe to assume India is not gonna get AESA from Russia, might as well start working on alternative strategies.
Both are not even able to CO-ordinate for a AK factory, where is the question on AESA? I highly doubt it.
I don't know for sure but as I heard in the news. GOI has also talked to Israel for this.
 
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