India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[hit&run]

My dear Sir, I would have agreed with you on all points but for the fact that Who is responsible for the management of LAC is a national agenda of highest importance.. you are underplaying that by subterfuges..

To transfer LAC to Army or put ITBP under command is a matter of reform from the previous system which is proving counter-productive.. This a simple matter of reforms but is stuck up for a few posts of DG, IGs and DIGs. This a simple reform affecting national sovereignty...

Why such things are happening on LAc is a national issue and raising question on that is nationalism. Trying to suppress those questions is simply being anti-national...

Please take questions as the questions rather than attacking motives... by not answering questions one is either trying to hide something or incapable of leadership.. bulldozing on national security issues is harmul..

I know when ITBP policy change happened what kind of threat perception was assumed at that time. There are threads available on this forum on that issue.

With the advantage of Hindsight it is easier to comment. The policy change on on ITBP couldn’t have been taken without consulting all stake holders. If you are privy on army’s dissent on it then present it here. Nonetheless it is a non issue that you have been dragging unnecessarily

This on the loop asking me to answer question raised by Panag and Shukla is not going to make me yield. May be if they could have behaved and remained non political there was a chance but not anymore.

 

[incognito]

I think we need to be smart and try to destabilize the China - Pak economic corridor, again that is our territory, and where China has invested heavily. We need to hurt them where it pains them the most. A war with one is a declared war with the other. China is playing a game to ensure we don’t speed up our development.

 

[WARREN SS]

Is it a valid strategy to use cruise missile against MBRLs ? Seems overkilll. There is the issues of cost + do we have enough ?

We Will Hit With Whatever We have That only Strategy you have In war against Stronger adversary

Single brahmos Carries 300 kg Warhead 2-3 Will be Enough for Whole battalion

One Regiment has 72 active +72 refill =144 Missiles
We have 2 Regiments
We have 288 Missiles in Chinese front Enough To destroy there Major Air bases at Tibet

This is Why I think PLA Will Twice before Using Any Multiple Launch Rocket System
Because It basically a Tactical Prahaar class missile

 

[Karthi]

My friend Ship also moving target in the Sea Brahmos has Terminal active Seeker

It Designed To knock out ships at speed of

40 knots

74.08 kph

You should also consider the shape and volume of the target , ship is comparatively easy target . And in high altitudes systems may not be accurate

 

[SRao]

WLR with some short range Missiles may be helpful , Brahmos may be costly we need 350-400 Km low cost rockets to overwhelm them .


And I strongly feel we need 100-400 Km loitering Munitions to Loiter around the mountains and to hit commie Terrorists army arsenal ,

Asking as a layman- why wouldn't cheaper options like Akash or Nag/Pinaka etc be as effective in these areas?

 

[Bhadra]

So, if 20,000 Pakistani troops with mechanized infantry have pitched camp right at the Punjab border, then, wouldn't Rajnath give a presser (as events might lead to a war, requiring defense of the nation), or would he hide behind protocol saying.. "Well its peacetime, let Motabhai handle the press"

Lack of basic understanding..

In that case, the cabinet will decide it is wartime and entire border including BSF will be placed under Army.... Army will take charge and Rajnath will brief Media..

But in the present case, the LAC has not been placed under MoD .. why is Rajnath jumping the gun... I am trying to bring out the predicament of a situation of "kare Koi air Bhare Koi"...

I dare say the Army Generalship must rise to the occasion and firmly demand end of such a nonsense of the system..

General Rawat and Gen Narawane must put forward this aspect firmly and strongly to eliminate this dangerous dichotomy on LAC.

 

[ladder]

I did say that ITBP may form part of the team and it does....
Army forms the team because it is a military matter. And that does not place LAc under command Army during peacetime...
Try and understand this rather than raising that time and again..

Or take it this way -- everything there is military matter and ITBP has no business to be there ... now happy ??

Chinese intrusion in Ladakh, ITBP asks for flag meet - Indian Express

In a deep incursion, Chinese troops have entered the Indian territory in Daulat Beg Oldi (DBO) sector in eastern Ladakh and erected a tented post, setting the stage for a face-off with Indian troops.

archive.indianexpress.com

To answer your previous post, ITBP do go for flag meeting with PLA.
Nothing to do with PLA being under their MoD.

So why IA went for Colonel, Brigadier and Lt. Gen meeting this time?

But that does not bring LAC during management during peace under Army. Every single thing that happens on LAC during peace has military implications wherein ITBP will shed its role.

Border personnel meeting is a mechanism under agreements that states Army personnel will meet each other to discuss the issues... that is how PLA comes..

Border personnel meeting is a mechanism under agreements that states Army personnel will meet each other to discuss the issues... that is how PLA comes..

Above is what you said.

So, why is ITBP invited, large heartedness of IA to share stinky Chinese Tea?

I said ITBP can and has independently call for flag meeting with PLA, and gave proof.

And your answer

I did say that ITBP may form part of the team and it does

You seem to be confused.

I can understand the magnanimity of IA to conduct Flag meeting, Border meeting for LAC for which, according to 'you' it is not entrusted upon it's management during 'peace time' and for which you didn't find 'gazette notification'.

Ha Ha......

 

[WARREN SS]

You should also consider the shape and volume of the target , ship is comparatively easy target . And in high altitudes systems may not be accurate

Well you always has Air burst Thermo baric mode

Brahmos Is Accurate as 1 m
Terminal active Seeker assures Lock on target before hitting it

To hit Lets say 200 km beyond LAC there MLRS Will has To come Near LAC

We Also Has Air Option Of Stand of then

 

[daya]

People have sentiments and sentiments over the time start fading if government don't support them.
Few months down the line the dispute goes cold people will forget about it and will move on and will buy whatever shit they want to.
If government of india can ban / make life of Chinese companies difficult for india then we can boycott them and is there a alternative to Chinese products?

No alternate to Chinese products is available. The local lala used to siphon hard earned money of lower-middle class Indian people, by selling products on huge margins, which were manufactured locally. However, the electronics and electric Items were came into reach only after China start manufacturing these in enormous quantities. The European/American/Japanese electronic/electrical products were too costly to purchase by lower-middle class Indian. It is a bitter truth that no one wants to purchase a 32 inch LED TV in 40000. If cheap option is available, be it Chinese one, the lower-middle class person will naturally buy that.

 

[daya]

Bombers are a pointless platform platform to have in the age of AEW&C and BVRAAMs.

Air superiority may be another issue, but, intercepting volley of incoming bombs is not a easier job.

 

[AMCA]

The last pic ,midgets with inflated ego,need to burst that balloon

They are SFF paratroopers not some chinki ping pong PoWs.

 

[daya]

After all, the politician has lots of value for an IPS policeman. Generals have no political utility.... so simple.. their voices can be muted...

Actually the bureaucrats have hijacked the system. Basically, they are THE BOSS despite of which party is ruling.

 

[cereal killer]

Is it a valid strategy to use cruise missile against MBRLs ? Seems overkilll. There is the issues of cost + do we have enough ?

No its not it is a very costly thing to do. But then again these kind of standoffs are necessary so that Indian defence planners can plug any shortcomings in future. MBRLs should be primary focus of our Indigenous arms industry. I read in an article quite a while ago that Porkies have stationed chinese made Hatf 9/Nasr MBRLs near Sialkot to target Chamb-Jaurian as well as Akhnoor sectors.

 

[Bhadra]

I know when ITBP policy change happened what kind of threat perception was assumed at that time. There are threads available on this forum on that issue.

With the advantage of Hindsight it is easier to comment. The policy change on on ITBP couldn’t have been taken without consulting all stake holders. If you are privy on army’s dissent on it then present it here. Nonetheless it is a non issue that you have been dragging unnecessarily

This on the loop asking me to answer question raised by Panag and Shukla is not going to make me yield. May be if they could have behaved and remained non political there was a chance but not anymore.

Fine it may be a non-issue for you but it is a very vital issue for me..

As I feel very strongly about it .. it is my moral responsibility to raise or drag it as you say in the interest of national security... I am entitled to it..

ITBP was never raised for the present role.. however now they have a present role and grown from six to sixty battalions. ... They can continue doing their job by being under command Army while on LAC..

They have now become a force for India China LAc along four thousand km border, threat perception is no more like UK and HP where they were earlier.. so everything is new and their role and task should be treated accordingly.. No where they should be an independent agency..

The implication of being under command are very simple - Their employment, deployment and activities are well known to the Army, what is happening on LAC is known to Army as reporting channels are through Army and all their operational activities are decided by Army.. Waht is such a big hassle about it ?

That is all ... No one is taking away their jobs... no one is asking to disband them..

And when I say reform what I mean the govt must reconsider and change their previous decision... Why make a big issue .. situation demands so..

 

[IndianHawk]

People have sentiments and sentiments over the time start fading if government don't support them.
Few months down the line the dispute goes cold people will forget about it and will move on and will buy whatever shit they want to.
If government of india can ban / make life of Chinese companies difficult for india then we can boycott them and is there a alternative to Chinese products?

People also remember repeated offense. Previously Chinese perfidy was played down by media .now it's out in open. People are becoming aware. Few more incident like this and china will be itched in public memory as enemy no.1 just like pakistan.

Regarding Chinese product read my next post.

 

[daya]

Not invalid. political or anti-national questions !! Very simple nationalist questions ??

Afsaron ne gend ko Army ke paale me daal diya... Unse jo dhilai hui, usko ek taraf kar khud saaf bach nikle.

 

[Ultramarine]

Old photos of 1967 Nathu La and Cho La clashes!!
Sry if these photos are posted earlier!!
View attachment 49633
Indian troops with Chinese PoWs!! View attachment 49634View attachment 49635View attachment 49636

The last picture is of establishment 22, aka the SFF. The two guys are tibetans and the army officer towering over them is an US officer, whose name escapes me at the moment, on deputation to India to train them as est 22 was formed initially with significant US contribution.

 

[WARREN SS]

Guys Give Govt And Military leader Ship some Chill

Its not Ordinary Circumstances

Chinese Planned this Covid And actions Related to it

Govt Is Engaged In all Fronts

As Far As Action goes Yesterday MEA shared Some Information With US And russians

Army also Given media a Alert on Reporting things

 

[Bhadra]

Border personnel meeting is a mechanism under agreements that states Army personnel will meet each other to discuss the issues... that is how PLA comes..

Above is what you said.

So, why is ITBP invited, large heartedness of IA to share stinky Chinese Tea?

I said ITBP can and has independently call for flag meeting with PLA, and gave proof.

And your answer

I did say that ITBP may form part of the team and it does

You seem to be confused.

I can understand the magnanimity of IA to conduct Flag meeting, Border meeting for LAC for which, according to 'you' it is not entrusted upon it's management during 'peace time' and for which you didn't find 'gazette notification'.

Ha Ha......

No bold letters .. that is considered improper and bad manners,,,

We all do our jobs but the only question is that we must do it in a coordinated manner.. and for coordination, only one agency can be made responsible ... that is it. There are no egos involved..

 

[SRao]

Lack of basic understanding..

In that case, the cabinet will decide it is wartime and entire border including BSF will be placed under Army.... Army will take charge and Rajnath will brief Media..

But in the present case, the LAC has not been placed under MoD .. why is Rajnath jumping the gun... I am trying to bring out the predicament of a situation of "kare Koi air Bhare Koi"...

I dare say the Army Generalship must rise to the occasion and firmly demand end of such a nonsense of the system..

General Rawat and Gen Narawane must put forward this aspect firmly and strongly to eliminate this dangerous dichotomy on LAC.

The issue here is why Rajnath and not Shah? Hmm, yeah, this does seem to be very important, especially the chinese would need to be given the message by the right person. From the chinese side, I have no idea whether it was ding-pong who is addressing their media, or is it ching-chong, or maybe ling-song. Who cares.

We seem to be hung up on protocols more than the babus we despise.

Actually, in this case, Rajnath addressing the press is better than Shah doing so, from Modi gvt's perspective. Pappu and his legions in the media and elsewhere would have gone hammer and tongs at the very sight of Shah- the hatred is very deep rooted. Even institutions like the SC would have suo-moto waded in and start asking questions! Rajnath, oth, looks like a deer caught in the headlights.

Jaishanker is too light weight. And all others in BJP are just chamchas, attributing everything to Modi's 56inch chest, riding on his coat-tails to power.