IndianHawk
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Or we could capture more area somewhere else along lac and force Chinese to face multiple fronts .
India China LAC & International Border Discussions
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IndianHawk
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Thank God for this hero!!I decided to reactivate Daulat Beg Oldi airstrip without any written permission: Air Marshal (retd) Pranab Kumar Barbora
We had five people in the aircraft — two Air Force pilots, one navigator, a gunner and I — as we flew the AN-32 from Chandigarh. We landed at Daulat Beg Oldi just before 9 in the morning. We kept the entire operation a secret., said Pranab Kumar B...
By Shantanu Nandan Sharma, ET Bureau | Jun 06, 2020, 10.56 PM IST
BCCL - Non Copyright
After the 1962 war, army engineers did a fantastic job in building this landing ground, but a decision was taken not to fly any two-engine aircraft to that height, said Pranab Kumar Barbora replying to a question.
Since early last month, the Chinese troops have moved inside the Indian territory in Ladakh, the flashpoint being Pangong Tso in the east, and the Galwan Valley that overlooks the newly built and highly strategic road from Darbuk to Shyok to Daulat Beg Oldi (DBO). In the cold desert, DBO plays a critical role: it’s next to the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in Aksai Chin as well as the historic Karakoram Pass. Located at an altitude of 16,614 ft, DBO houses the world’s highest airstrip — also called advanced landing ground — which remained non-operational between 1965 and 2008. In May 2008, the airstrip was reactivated when former vice-chief of air staff, Air Marshal (retd) Pranab Kumar Barbora, who was then the Western Air Command chief, landed an AN-32 aircraft there. The entire mission was secret: there was no written order and even the then defence minister AK Antony was kept in the dark. Edited excerpts from an interview with Shantanu Nandan Sharma:
Daulat Beg Oldi airstrip was reactivated after 43 years when you flew an AN-32 transporter in May 2008. Would you share some details on why and how that decision was taken?
It all started in 2008 when I joined as the commander-in-chief of Western Air Command, the jurisdiction of which spread from Ladakh to the deserts of Rajasthan. There were about 60 Air Force stations under me. When we analysed how the Indian Air Force could maximise its logistics support to our Army and paramilitary personnel stationed in that difficult terrain near the LAC, Daulat Beg Oldi cropped up.
We had made plans for Ladakh’s other advance landing grounds, too — for example, Thoise, Chushul and Fukche. But Daulat Beg Oldi stood out for various reasons. First, it’s the highest landing ground in the world. Second, it’s just a few kilometres away from the Karakoram Pass. The airstrip was built in 1962 to check the Chinese as well as to stonewall any incursion from Pakistan from the glacier’s side.
But the landing ground had to be abandoned in 1965. We continued to send helicopters there to drop materials though it was beyond helicopters’ safety margins.
Why was the landing ground abandoned in 1965?
After the 1962 war, army engineers did a fantastic job in building this landing ground, but a decision was taken not to fly any two-engine aircraft to that height. After all, during the take-off, if one engine fails, all are dead. At that time, Packet was the only aircraft that was found suitable to fly to Daulat Beg Oldi, as the two-engine aircraft was modified in India by adding one more small engine. So, it was practically a three-engine aircraft. But Packet was written off in 1965 after the aircraft had gone through its life cycle, so the airstrip also became unused. The area remains hostile. There is less oxygen, there is no vegetation there. The personnel had to walk for days to reach the outpost.
The Disputed Site
But why was no attempt made in 43 years to reactivate Daulat Beg Oldi even as threats from China remained a constant?
At least five attempts were made. When I wanted to reopen the airstrip, I spotted five files. But after examining those, I realised that if I created another file and put up my request in writing, I won’t get a go-ahead. All the earlier files had ended with a ‘No’ for various reasons.
So, I decided to reactivate Daulat Beg Oldi airstrip without any written permission. I decided, let’s not create any file, let nothing be in writing. After all, if you ask for permission, all the old files will be called, and the result will be another ‘No’. Instead, I talked to my counterparts in the Army and select Air Force officers to get a quick study done on the condition of the airstrip and other preparations.
After all, it was not used for 43 years. Soon, I received a report — again all verbal — confirming that there was no major crack on the ground. For our part, we had to take care of a few air elements, as AN-32 is not supposed to land above 14,000 feet. More than the landing, what was problematic was the take-off. What if one engine switched off? We undertook special trainings, albeit quietly, to enhance our safety norm. We weighed in various scenarios: like, what if a tyre needed to be changed without switching off the engines?
Finally, when we came closer to the date of flying — May 31, 2008 — I spoke to the then chief of air staff (Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major) and army chief (General Deepak Kapoor) in Delhi’s Air Force golf course and took their verbal permission. I also briefed the then vicechief of air staff, Pradeep Naik. The defence minister (AK Antony) knew only after we had accomplished the mission.
What happened on the D-day?
We had five people in the aircraft — two Air Force pilots, one navigator, a gunner and I — as we flew the AN-32 from Chandigarh. We landed at Daulat Beg Oldi just before 9 in the morning. We kept the entire operation a secret.
My wife somehow got an inkling, but the spouses of other crew did not know anything about the mission. We spent some time on the top; while returning, one of the senior army officers accompanied us. When we took off from Daulat Beg Oldi, it was like a bumpy camel ride on an unpaved ground. But we successfully lifted the aircraft and landed in Thoise before flying back to Chandigarh. There was a standby aircraft flying around to monitor our plane. We immediately transmitted to Delhi — yes, we have reactivated Daulat Beg Oldi.
We broke the ice and proved a point that we were capable. We surprised the Chinese. Later, in 2013, a four-engine aircraft C-130 Hercules landed there. Look, it’s 2020 now, not 1962.
Antony or Sonia maino will never give permission!!
These are the true warriors who risked their carrier to do the right thing even against an anti national government.
doreamon
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while pushing them in galwan same procedure might have been followed .. But in finger 4 they have tracked road they can come in mass numbers through vehicle which we cnt .
IndianHawk
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No they can't . That is still a single road and only one vehicle can come . Our off road vehicle can amass troops on our side too.
China appoints new PLA commander for India border
Lieutenant General Xu Qiling has been appointed as the new commander of the PLA Western Theater Command Ground Force, or Army
Why did this happen in them middle of dispute?
Was it discussed anywhere on this thread?
According to the map China’s perception of LAC is till finger 4, India’s was till finger 8. That interview with the former CO is pretty clear and he disputed Gen.Panag’s claim of occupation of heights saying that the terrain wasn’t conducive for such an operation.
garg_bharat
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The Chinese are building an aggressive posture in Ladakh. My view is that it is far more than an "incursion". It is a declaration of an intent of war. India must do far more than move troops. India must build its capacity to not only respond but beat back Chinese. It is difficult but possible.
WARREN SS
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If this was the case they might attack gora post on finger 4 and killed entire unit .As far as they did is build camp btw finger 4 an 5 close to ITBP post Which was idle and only left for patrol
We were planning same They pre empt it Now they blocking our patrol
Though they were always Stopped our patrol in previous years aswell
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WARREN SS
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We need Speed Boats in Pangong Tso chinese use same
Raj Malhotra
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RBI allows Bank of China to offer regular banking services in India
In another notification, the RBI said 'Jana Small Finance Bank Limited' too has been included in the Second Schedule.
RBI Giving full Support to Indian Army against China
IndianHawk
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We have Marcos there now with navy boats.
IndianHawk
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Our posture is far more aggressive than Chinese.
We have more men more armour there.
IndianHawk
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SBI also operates in china . What's your point??RBI allows Bank of China to offer regular banking services in India
In another notification, the RBI said 'Jana Small Finance Bank Limited' too has been included in the Second Schedule.www.google.com
RBI Giving full Support to Indian Army against China
Bhadra
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Claude Arpi | India vs China: Time to open some new fronts
Claude Arpi | India vs China: Time to open some new fronts
This history shouldn’t be forgotten when one looks at the present events in Ladakh, though “establishmentâ€, says that nobody should worry
On July 12, 1962, India’s first Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru landed at Delhi’s Palam airport; he was back from a family holiday in Kashmir. The National Herald described the scene thus: “Pandit Nehru returned by a special plane from Kashmir after a week’s holiday. He was accompanied by Mrs Indira Gandhi, Mrs Vijayalakshmi Pandit and his two grandsons. The Prime Minister was looking better after the rest.
“The presspersons literally jumped on the Prime Minister: Chinese troops had encircled an Indian picket in a remote unknown place of Ladakh, the spokesman of the external affairs ministry had just told them: ‘There has been no change in the situation caused by encircled Indian post in the Galwan river valley in Ladakh by Chinese intruders’. But the Prime Minister was cool: ‘No conflict had occurred so far between the Indian and Chinese personnel at the Galwan outpost in Ladakh’.”
The tendency to minimise Chinese intrusions is nothing new; that day at the airport, Nehru explained “some time or the other the Chinese will have to end their encirclement of the Indian outpost to avoid an armed clash”.
A correspondent dared point out that according to the latest Indian protest note the situation was serious, and the PM agreed. “Yes. They are pitched in a high key. Anyhow, so far as I know, nothing has happened, no conflict has occurred,” he said, adding: “Some time or the other the [Chinese] will have to [end the encirclement].”
Nehru was cheerful, and even joked as the correspondents trooped around him, laughingly asking: “Are you now encircling me?”
Two days later, before leaving for Bengaluru, Nehru again told the press: “While there was a risk of a clash between Indian and Chinese forces at Galwan post in Ladakh, I don’t think there will be any major clash.” He then added: “They accuse us and we accuse them. It’s very difficult to say what will happen… There is a risk of a clash, but not a major one.”
The MEA annual report explained India’s position: “In July 1962 Chinese troops encircled an Indian post in the Galwan Valley, [the Indian government has] indicated their willingness to enter into discussions on the India-China boundary question… as soon as the tensions have eased and a suitable climate for talks and discussions is created”. The Chinese troops eventually withdrew from the area.
This background appears interesting as one looks at the present situation in Ladakh, where PLA troops are facing the Indian troops in a similar manner.
The summer 1962 incident sent a false message to the government, and particularly to arrogant defence minister V.K. Krishna Menon, who was on his way to Geneva to meet Marshal Chen Yi, China’s foreign minister; but it made many Indian officials, including then Intelligence Bureau chief B.N. Mullick, believe the Chinese would never attack, or if they did it would be a minor clash.
We know what happened three months later, when a totally unprepared Indian Army had to face the onslaught of the Chinese PLA.
This history shouldn’t be forgotten when one looks at the present events in Ladakh, though today’s “establishment”, like yesterday’s, says that nobody should worry and the issue will be sorted out through negotiations (today it’s called “mechanisms”). But the issue may not vanish that fast.
Ambassador R.S. Kalha, in his book India-China Boundary Issues, has recalled: “Nehru seemed to be convinced that the Chinese would not make any major incursion into Indian-held territory. Perhaps Krishna Menon convinced him so. Nehru told Gen. Thapar (Army Chief) that he had ‘reliable information that the Chinese would not offer resistance if there was a show of force to make them vacate the checkposts’. The events in the Galwan Valley seemed to confirm Nehru’s thesis, when Chinese troops advanced right up to the Indian post, surrounded it, but did not open fire and eventually withdrew.”
The ambassador added: “This was not the message the Chinese wished to convey. They intended it as a warning that they could eliminate any Indian post at any time, but Nehru misread it and reached the opposite conclusion that China would not fight.”
Galwan remained quiet till October 20, the day the PLA launched a massive attack; as a result, 36 Indian soldiers were killed and another 32, mostly wounded, were taken prisoners in Tibet.
Maj. Gen. P.J.S. Sandhu, editor of the fascinating study 1962: A View from the Other Side of the Hill, recently remarked: “Unlike in NEFA, the Chinese did not withdraw even an inch in Ladakh. They stayed put where they had reached: their 1960 Claim Line. In Ladakh, they had claimed about 33,500 sq km of Indian territory; by the end of the war, they had taken control of most of it, except about 450 sq km of area which remain till today as a few disputed pockets.”
What makes the present situation extremely serious is that in Ladakh, while there are 12 “disputed” areas along the Line of Actual Control (LAC), where China’s and India’s “perceptions” differ, the area where the conflict is now taking place was not one of them. In Galwan, the LAC “perceptions” were similar till the beginning of May, when the PLA started planting tents in the area.
What seems obvious is that the PLA’s objective is to block infrastructure construction on the Indian side, regardless of whether they have ever claimed the area before or not.
The question remains: Why has China always refused to inform India of its “perceptions” of the LAC?
In 2000, both sides agreed they would initiate a process for the clarification and determination of the LAC in all sectors; a first meeting took place in March 2000, where maps of the middle sector were exchanged.
On June 17, 2002, both sides met again and maps of the western sector were seen by both sides for about 20 minutes, but during the meeting itself the maps were withdrawn since it was felt that they represented maximalist positions for both sides.
In these circumstances, it is high time for India to not only insist on the immediate exchange of maps of the LAC, but also to select a few points of pressure which could be painful for Beijing – such as Tibet, Taiwan or Hong Kong -- and if necessary, to start applying pressure.
captscooby81
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I don't know where we keep getting this false equivalence No countries soldier is equal to 2 or 3 of another country , This is typical paki thinking who used to say our 1 soldier is equal to 10 indian soldiers . Respect the man in uniform irrespective of which country he belongs to like how Indian soldier is ready to defend his motherland so does Chinese soldier who will defend his country . So its simple 1 IA soldier = 1 PLA Soldier .
This is why tech matters , armour , and all the other things comes into play , If Chinese can shoot our soldiers sitting inside MBT why will they send their soldiers on one to one battles ?
We cant keep covering up our shortfall in weapons modernisation simply by saying we have more soldiers .
How many Indian soldiers cant handle a Chinese rocket onslaught ? no one will be able to fight against that with their body and small weapons .
This is why tech matters , armour , and all the other things comes into play , If Chinese can shoot our soldiers sitting inside MBT why will they send their soldiers on one to one battles ?
We cant keep covering up our shortfall in weapons modernisation simply by saying we have more soldiers .
How many Indian soldiers cant handle a Chinese rocket onslaught ? no one will be able to fight against that with their body and small weapons .
Bhadra
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A Good read
timesofindia.indiatimes.com
Paradigm shift in border management
June 7, 2020, 9:11 AM IST Lt General K J Singh
June 7, 2020, 9:11 AM IST Lt General K J Singh
Paradigm shift in border management
Sino-Indian border, described as Line of Actual Control (LAC), remote and ignored, unlike its TRP hogging cousin, Line of Control (LOC), has literally pole vaulted into our lives. Recounting wisdom of Winston Churchill, “Never let...
Bhadra
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Army revives interest in ITBP command
http://idrw.org/army-revives-interest-in-itbp-command/#more-228738 .
HawkisRight
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Congratulations u have done it
akhil mehta
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Indian Army And Indian Air Force Joint Military Exercise in 2019
Indian Armed Forces Are Well prepared for Any Misadventure done by China or Pakistan
Indian Armed Forces Are Well prepared for Any Misadventure done by China or Pakistan
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Battle of Longewala (and many such battles in history) would be illogical and impossible if we compare invading force viz-a-viz defending side.
You are comparing IA with PLA as if we are also ready to invade China and get back Askai chin and Tibet. Is that our aim?
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