India China LAC & International Border Discussions

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Nick Diniz

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The Chinese belligerence seems to be towards securing CPEC . This should have been factored in when starting to target Gilgit Baltistan. No way were the Chinese going to keep quite or out of it. I think it’s time for India to get into the western camp. Get the US to keep the Pakis under leash while India deals with China. Trump would be all to happy to have India solidly in the anti China camp.
 

Cartel Boss

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A well equipped and well supported infantry is sufficient to hold off China. As long as India can prevent China from advancing, India will be able to achieve its offensive objective against Pakistan.
 

Gautam Sarkar

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“Indonesia on Friday rejected a Chinese offer for negotiations on the South China Sea, as Jakarta reiterated that it had no overlapping claims with Beijing in its exclusive economic zone."

Translation: we do not accept your historic rights claim.

 

Cartel Boss

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“Indonesia on Friday rejected a Chinese offer for negotiations on the South China Sea, as Jakarta reiterated that it had no overlapping claims with Beijing in its exclusive economic zone."

Translation: we do not accept your historic rights claim.

Indonesia should follow Australia's lead and enter in a military pact with India.
 

Gautam Sarkar

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Indonesia should follow Australia's lead and enter in a military pact with India.
There was some talks of a trilateral between Indonesia-India-Australia. Mostly to do with MDA, HDR, rotational patrolling etc. Don't know what happened to it. MEA hardly talks about it anymore, Aussies are very interested still as evidenced in their most recent press releases and think tanks, Indonesia is quiet about it too.

Curiously India-Indonesia signed an agreement recently for the development of the Sabang port. The location is very strategic.
 

tarunraju

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Chinese are playing a psychological game with us. They hardly have intent to capture territory. Only playing hardball with us because differences in perception on LaC can be utilized as a negotiation tactic in the current situation. The real intention is to prevent India from joining the USA camp as the West tries to pin down China on Corona spread. Second reason is our hard stance on taking back PoK. Probably India was preparing for an operation which China seems to have conveinently stopped for now.
Well, this is a shitty way of "preventing India from joining the US camp."

India will double-down on luring western industries away from China. A company shifting its factory from Guangdong to Gujarat would have no impact from the situation in Ladakh.

Also, as a reassurance to investors, India will militarize more heavily along the Chinese frontier, so they can never make advances.
 

Blue Water Navy

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Well, this is a shitty way of "preventing India from joining the US camp."

India will double-down on luring western industries away from China. A company shifting its factory from Guangdong to Gujarat would have no impact from the situation in Ladakh.

Also, as a reassurance to investors, India will militarize more heavily along the Chinese frontier, so they can never make advances.
But taking back our POK is a valid point though.:hmm:
 

Bhadra

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It might be just a coincidence that India's acclaimed and so touted Left - Libart intellectual Elite's Magazine would publish a symposium on China in Apr2020. When China was in the thick of Corona accusations and countries in the world were rethinking of realigning their foreign policies this or that way with respect to China. Seminar Magazine would solicit favourable views of Indian elites.

The monthly symposium selects a current subject and before asking their chosen intellect on it formulates the "Problem".

So here is the problem, somewhat well articulate. It is unfortunate for them that the events have proved some of their fundamentals wrong. After going on the page click on "Problem"...

 

tarunraju

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tarunraju

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Indonesia should follow Australia's lead and enter in a military pact with India.
The US should midwife an Asian NATO, called IOTO (Indian Ocean Treaty Organization), with India, Australia, and Indonesia as founding members. Only the US could stitch something like this together without actively participating in it.

Actually, given BIOT, both the UK and the US could be part of IOTO, too.

This should be both a trading and military bloc. Eventually other ASEAN states and certain Far East states should gravitate.
 

cereal killer

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The US should midwife an Asian NATO, called IOTO (Indian Ocean Treaty Organization), with India, Australia, and Indonesia as founding members. Only the US could stitch something like this together without actively participating in it.

Actually, given BIOT, both the UK and the US could be part of IOTO, too.

This should be both a trading and military bloc. Eventually other ASEAN states and certain Far East states should gravitate.
Instead don't involve US & UK & have IOTO with India Japan & Australia Vietnam Singapore Taiwan Indonesia & other SE Asia countries. That will be more than enough to counter China. China will never be able to assert itself as a global power & will be in Check.
 

Shashank Nayak

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Jharkhand Government is airlifting BRO workers from Leh.
Workers say, "We are from Jharkhand. We had come to work in Chamlung in Leh. Now that our work has stopped because of the pandemic, we are stuck here. We wrote to our CM Hemant Soren for his help&he is taking us back to our villages. We are very very grateful for his help." Some blame lies with centre too, in not keeping them continuously employed...
 

Kumata

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Workers say, "We are from Jharkhand. We had come to work in Chamlung in Leh. Now that our work has stopped because of the pandemic, we are stuck here. We wrote to our CM Hemant Soren for his help&he is taking us back to our villages. We are very very grateful for his help." Some blame lies with centre too, in not keeping them continuously employed...
agree if what workers said is true but BRO is actively starting the work there and i don't agree that these workers were not paid for the duration of non-work. Having said that with govt trying to push infra build on Leh, it did not make any sense to airlift these workers.... ON the opposite... why soren is only interested in airlifting workers from Leh.. there are many workers in other states who are struggling to reach home....

TBH, I can trust a snake for a second but not soren and khangressi eco system.. there is more to it that what's being portrayed ...
 

AMCA

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I decided to reactivate Daulat Beg Oldi airstrip without any written permission: Air Marshal (retd) Pranab Kumar Barbora


We had five people in the aircraft — two Air Force pilots, one navigator, a gunner and I — as we flew the AN-32 from Chandigarh. We landed at Daulat Beg Oldi just before 9 in the morning. We kept the entire operation a secret., said Pranab Kumar B...

By Shantanu Nandan Sharma, ET Bureau | Jun 06, 2020, 10.56 PM IST






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After the 1962 war, army engineers did a fantastic job in building this landing ground, but a decision was taken not to fly any two-engine aircraft to that height, said Pranab Kumar Barbora replying to a question.
Since early last month, the Chinese troops have moved inside the Indian territory in Ladakh, the flashpoint being Pangong Tso in the east, and the Galwan Valley that overlooks the newly built and highly strategic road from Darbuk to Shyok to Daulat Beg Oldi (DBO). In the cold desert, DBO plays a critical role: it’s next to the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in Aksai Chin as well as the historic Karakoram Pass. Located at an altitude of 16,614 ft, DBO houses the world’s highest airstrip — also called advanced landing ground — which remained non-operational between 1965 and 2008. In May 2008, the airstrip was reactivated when former vice-chief of air staff, Air Marshal (retd) Pranab Kumar Barbora, who was then the Western Air Command chief, landed an AN-32 aircraft there. The entire mission was secret: there was no written order and even the then defence minister AK Antony was kept in the dark. Edited excerpts from an interview with Shantanu Nandan Sharma:


Daulat Beg Oldi airstrip was reactivated after 43 years when you flew an AN-32 transporter in May 2008. Would you share some details on why and how that decision was taken?


It all started in 2008 when I joined as the commander-in-chief of Western Air Command, the jurisdiction of which spread from Ladakh to the deserts of Rajasthan. There were about 60 Air Force stations under me. When we analysed how the Indian Air Force could maximise its logistics support to our Army and paramilitary personnel stationed in that difficult terrain near the LAC, Daulat Beg Oldi cropped up.
We had made plans for Ladakh’s other advance landing grounds, too — for example, Thoise, Chushul and Fukche. But Daulat Beg Oldi stood out for various reasons. First, it’s the highest landing ground in the world. Second, it’s just a few kilometres away from the Karakoram Pass. The airstrip was built in 1962 to check the Chinese as well as to stonewall any incursion from Pakistan from the glacier’s side.
But the landing ground had to be abandoned in 1965. We continued to send helicopters there to drop materials though it was beyond helicopters’ safety margins.

Why was the landing ground abandoned in 1965?
After the 1962 war, army engineers did a fantastic job in building this landing ground, but a decision was taken not to fly any two-engine aircraft to that height. After all, during the take-off, if one engine fails, all are dead. At that time, Packet was the only aircraft that was found suitable to fly to Daulat Beg Oldi, as the two-engine aircraft was modified in India by adding one more small engine. So, it was practically a three-engine aircraft. But Packet was written off in 1965 after the aircraft had gone through its life cycle, so the airstrip also became unused. The area remains hostile. There is less oxygen, there is no vegetation there. The personnel had to walk for days to reach the outpost.

The Disputed Site
The Disputed Site
But why was no attempt made in 43 years to reactivate Daulat Beg Oldi even as threats from China remained a constant?
At least five attempts were made. When I wanted to reopen the airstrip, I spotted five files. But after examining those, I realised that if I created another file and put up my request in writing, I won’t get a go-ahead. All the earlier files had ended with a ‘No’ for various reasons.
So, I decided to reactivate Daulat Beg Oldi airstrip without any written permission. I decided, let’s not create any file, let nothing be in writing. After all, if you ask for permission, all the old files will be called, and the result will be another ‘No’. Instead, I talked to my counterparts in the Army and select Air Force officers to get a quick study done on the condition of the airstrip and other preparations.

After all, it was not used for 43 years. Soon, I received a report — again all verbal — confirming that there was no major crack on the ground. For our part, we had to take care of a few air elements, as AN-32 is not supposed to land above 14,000 feet. More than the landing, what was problematic was the take-off. What if one engine switched off? We undertook special trainings, albeit quietly, to enhance our safety norm. We weighed in various scenarios: like, what if a tyre needed to be changed without switching off the engines?
Finally, when we came closer to the date of flying — May 31, 2008 — I spoke to the then chief of air staff (Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major) and army chief (General Deepak Kapoor) in Delhi’s Air Force golf course and took their verbal permission. I also briefed the then vicechief of air staff, Pradeep Naik. The defence minister (AK Antony) knew only after we had accomplished the mission.

What happened on the D-day?
We had five people in the aircraft — two Air Force pilots, one navigator, a gunner and I — as we flew the AN-32 from Chandigarh. We landed at Daulat Beg Oldi just before 9 in the morning. We kept the entire operation a secret.
My wife somehow got an inkling, but the spouses of other crew did not know anything about the mission. We spent some time on the top; while returning, one of the senior army officers accompanied us. When we took off from Daulat Beg Oldi, it was like a bumpy camel ride on an unpaved ground. But we successfully lifted the aircraft and landed in Thoise before flying back to Chandigarh. There was a standby aircraft flying around to monitor our plane. We immediately transmitted to Delhi — yes, we have reactivated Daulat Beg Oldi.
We broke the ice and proved a point that we were capable. We surprised the Chinese. Later, in 2013, a four-engine aircraft C-130 Hercules landed there. Look, it’s 2020 now, not 1962.
 

Absolut_Vodka

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Only logical step for Indian army is to go into Chinese incursion site in huge numbers and beat them up across LAC/pre Apr 2020 position.

This is the best way to regain 2-4km that Chinese has come inside, and it's not a huge escalation as far as border fights go.
 
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