India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[ninja hattori]

psyops by global timed,

it means they are concerned about there own movements, it seems like they are working like swiggy to pick and land troops without letting them know where they landed


see the whole video it seems they are transporting vips not soldiers, u will laugh ur hearts out

 

[Indrajit]

Battle of Longewala (and many such battles in history) would be illogical and impossible if we compare invading force viz-a-viz defending side.

You are comparing IA with PLA as if we are also ready to invade China and get back Askai chin and Tibet. Is that our aim?

There are always exceptions to the rule but his point is well made and while our soldiers may do better, our calculations must not count on it.

 

[fire starter]

lol

 

[IndianHawk]

I don't know where we keep getting this false equivalence No countries soldier is equal to 2 or 3 of another country , This is typical paki thinking who used to say our 1 soldier is equal to 10 indian soldiers . Respect the man in uniform irrespective of which country he belongs to like how Indian soldier is ready to defend his motherland so does Chinese soldier who will defend his country . So its simple 1 IA soldier = 1 PLA Soldier .

This is why tech matters , armour , and all the other things comes into play , If Chinese can shoot our soldiers sitting inside MBT why will they send their soldiers on one to one battles ?

We cant keep covering up our shortfall in weapons modernisation simply by saying we have more soldiers .

How many Indian soldiers cant handle a Chinese rocket onslaught ? no one will be able to fight against that with their body and small weapons .

While it's true mountain warfare it's depended on men. Men who are acclimated to the hights.
And numerical superiority of those men.

As rockets / artillery all are not very effective in high cliffs and valleys.

 

[Mikesingh]

It's Time the Army Gets The ITBP Under Its Command

Was it an intelligence and command failure by the ITBP that has led to earlier and the ongoing stand-offs and the Chinese build-up along the LAC? It is well known that the paramilitary force is not adequately equipped including intel gathering mechanisms to meet the challenges posed by the PLA all along the LAC and beyond.

The army has recently revived its demand to take over the operational command of the paramilitary force, which is under the home ministry. This turf war between the defence ministry and the home ministry over the control of the ITBP has been raging for quite some time but has now gained momentum in the midst of the escalating tension between Indian and Chinese troops in Ladakh.

It is incumbent that the ITBP be put under operational command of the army to ensure better patrolling and security along the LAC especially at sensitive areas which have witnessed transgression by the PLA and face-offs in the past. Moreover, the orientation of the force is essentially towards policing tasks which needs to be changed and made more operationally oriented.

However, the home ministry myopically cites international conventions that paramilitary forces guard the borders and the army remains behind the first line of defence. This is absurd as deployment should depend on the situation on ground and the threat perception. Blindly following what other countries are doing with their border set-up is a lame argument with Shah maintaining that the 90,000-strong paramilitary force was raised specifically for 'guarding' the Chinese frontier after the India-China war. The 'guarding' here means
prevention of encroachments and smuggling, unauthorized movement of goods, weapons, personnel and such like non-traditional threats in the border areas.

The LAC is a live boundary, and should be manned accordingly. The PLA platoon that camped in Depsang was no group of local herdsmen or Yak smugglers or in any way could be construed as non-traditional threat. Therefore it required more than a police force response.

Additionally, the Army has a comprehensive intelligence setup and has the wherewithal for intelligence gathering which the ITBP sorely lacks. Inter-communication between Army and ITBP is adhoc and is mainly provided from Army resources. ITBP’s integral radio equipment is incompatible with equipment currently in use by the Army.

ITBP as the first responder to a conventional tactical situation without requisite assets and combat support would make the Chinese interpreting it as a tacit acceptance by India that the LAC is not of paramount importance that needs to be guarded by military forces resulting in literally a walk-over in certain areas as has happened in the past.

The bottom line is, get the ITBP under command of the army especially in all potentially disputed areas.

 

[Jailor]

Battle of Longewala (and many such battles in history) would be illogical and impossible if we compare invading force viz-a-viz defending side.

Bro, battle of longewala was a ill planned attack by pakistan and there tanks got stuck in sand, this has quite much to do with dumb and wishfull paki leadership and a bit of luck as we got IAF support which scored direct hits on stuck paki tanks, it doesn't happen every time, there were some very close and fiercely fought battles against same pakistani soldiers.
Major chandpuri has to take a decision, we were ill equipped to face paki mechanised infantry, so we either had to flee on foot which meant pakis will easily catch and slaughter the retreating us or use our defensive advantage and try and kill as many as possible as reinforcements were many hours away.
Iaf was able to direct one aircraft to bust paki tanks and this was the game changer.
Its a glorious battle but shouldn't be considered a standard.
We shouldn't underestimate PLA specially when they have a slight advantage in weapons.

 

[ezsasa]

As rockets / artillery all are not very effective in high cliffs and valleys.

how so? You are talking about transportation logistics or something else.

 

[ninja hattori]

last year integrated exercise,

 

[Tridev123]

I don't know where we keep getting this false equivalence No countries soldier is equal to 2 or 3 of another country , This is typical paki thinking who used to say our 1 soldier is equal to 10 indian soldiers . Respect the man in uniform irrespective of which country he belongs to like how Indian soldier is ready to defend his motherland so does Chinese soldier who will defend his country . So its simple 1 IA soldier = 1 PLA Soldier .

This is why tech matters , armour , and all the other things comes into play , If Chinese can shoot our soldiers sitting inside MBT why will they send their soldiers on one to one battles ?

We cant keep covering up our shortfall in weapons modernisation simply by saying we have more soldiers .

How many Indian soldiers cant handle a Chinese rocket onslaught ? no one will be able to fight against that with their body and small weapons .

Bro, nobody is disputing your logic. Only having more soldiers cannot compensate for lack of heavy weapons etc.
If I was comparing force levels of India and Pakistan then I too would list out our superiority in numbers as well as weapons, both quantity and quality.

But please tell me, can we match Chinese production rates for a variety of weapons be it for the army, airforce or navy. They commission more ships in a year than what we commission in 5 years.

Do you want me to list out our deficiencies vis-a-vis China?. Their economy is 5 times larger than ours. It will take us years to match them.

An example. If Nepal were to be attacked by China how do you build morale. By
listing out the absolute one sided equipment superiority of the Chinese or by extolling the world renowned fighting spirit of the Ghurkha soldiers who even when
outnumbered made the British retreat. How do you raise the morale of a country?.

By listing out the advantages and good qualities of the country and not the defects.

India has a younger population profile than China meaning more eligible men for
recruitment to the armed forces.

If the na mard Pakis can say that 1 meat eating Muslim Pakistani soldier is equivalent to 10 plant eating Hindu soldiers why can't we make a distinction between our battle hardened Indian soldier most of whom have done counter
insurgency duties and faced live bullets and an Chinese soldier who hasn't had any previous combat experience.
Forgive me for using certain phrases to describe our soldiers but this is the way the bas**ds Pakis describe our troops. PDF is full of similar phrases used for Indians.

I am trying to increase our nation's morale by looking at possible counter steps to Chinese superiority in both technology and weapons numbers.

Increasing the strength of the army to raise the costs for China is not a crazy idea.
What options do we have?. Please elaborate. Other than using the nuclear bomb how can we match Chinese quantity and quality in the short term.

 

[ladder]

lol

Although looks similar, that's not the rear end of a giant megaphone. Lesson for the soldier and the propaganda army.

 

[IndianHawk]

how so? You are talking about transportation logistics or something else.

Transportation on road will be under attack from both sides severely.
But soldier will find alternate ways on foot , by off road vehicles etc to capture favorable heights.

Soldiers will also be paradropped to wherever possible.

Soldiers dispersed in such a way can't be attacked by rockets and artillery as they will be shielded by mountains will hide in cliffs and hangers. Etc

Ultimately who ever can flood the area with more soldiers will win in the end.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

 

[Skyh3ck]

We need Speed Boats in Pangong Tso chinese use same

Ha ha .. indian government will not sanction any budget to acqure boat.. it's even very hard to get budget for mountain gear for army. .. normal politician thinks what is the use of boats and navy on mountains..

 

[mokoman]

Transportation on road will be under attack from both sides severely.
But soldier will find alternate ways on foot , by off road vehicles etc to capture favorable heights.

Soldiers will also be paradropped to wherever possible.

Soldiers dispersed in such a way can't be attacked by rockets and artillery as they will be shielded by mountains will hide in cliffs and hangers. Etc

Ultimately who ever can flood the area with more soldiers will win in the end.

what about air support , i read that we have a slight edge there . How good are their anti aircraft weaponry ? .

I think if there is a conflict it will be bloody , and it will end in stalemate . They will fire the first shot , we will fight them off but wont cross the LAC like in kargil .

 

[IndianHawk]

Bro, nobody is disputing your logic. Only having more soldiers cannot compensate for lack of heavy weapons etc.
If I was comparing force levels of India and Pakistan then I too would list out our superiority in numbers as well as weapons, both quantity and quality.

But please tell me, can we match Chinese production rates for a variety of weapons be it for the army, airforce or navy. They commission more ships in a year than what we commission in 5 years.

Do you want me to list out our deficiencies vis-a-vis China?. Their economy is 5 times larger than ours. It will take us years to match them.

An example. If Nepal were to be attacked by China how do you build morale. By
listing out the absolute one sided equipment superiority of the Chinese or by extolling the world renowned fighting spirit of the Ghurkha soldiers who even when
outnumbered made the British retreat. How do you raise the morale of a country?.

By listing out the advantages and good qualities of the country and not the defects.

India has a younger population profile than China meaning more eligible men for
recruitment to the armed forces.

If the na mard Pakis can say that 1 meat eating Muslim Pakistani soldier is equivalent to 10 plant eating Hindu soldiers why can't we make a distinction between our battle hardened Indian soldier most of whom have done counter
insurgency duties and faced live bullets and an Chinese soldier who hasn't had any previous combat experience.
Forgive me for using certain phrases to describe our soldiers but this is the way the bas**ds Pakis describe our troops. PDF is full of similar phrases used for Indians.

I am trying to increase our nation's morale by looking at possible counter steps to Chinese superiority in both technology and weapons numbers.

Increasing the strength of the army to raise the costs for China is not a crazy idea.
What options do we have?. Please elaborate. Other than using the nuclear bomb how can we match Chinese quantity and quality in the short term.

Chinese economy is barely 2.5 times higher than India .
They can only put limited equipment in tibet. Terrain doesn't permit heavy deployment. Where are they going to put their tanks ! On Mountain cliffs??

BTW we have more tanks than them .

Their supply lines are 1500+ long. Our cruise missile will destroy those lines where will chines supply come then??

Read the geography of tibet.

 

[Indrajit]

I don't know where we keep getting this false equivalence No countries soldier is equal to 2 or 3 of another country , This is typical paki thinking who used to say our 1 soldier is equal to 10 indian soldiers . Respect the man in uniform irrespective of which country he belongs to like how Indian soldier is ready to defend his motherland so does Chinese soldier who will defend his country . So its simple 1 IA soldier = 1 PLA Soldier .

This is why tech matters , armour , and all the other things comes into play , If Chinese can shoot our soldiers sitting inside MBT why will they send their soldiers on one to one battles ?

We cant keep covering up our shortfall in weapons modernisation simply by saying we have more soldiers .

How many Indian soldiers cant handle a Chinese rocket onslaught ? no one will be able to fight against that with their body and small weapons .

I agree and I regret that we have as a country been absolutely stupid while dealing with the reality of China. That UPA was stupid and reckless about national security considerations is well known but the truth is that Modi has even less of an excuse . The Chinese made it clear with the very first meeting when with Xi in India being serenaded by Modi, Chinese troops were doing what they always have been. If that wasn’t a message, I don’t know what is. Modi and co. haven’t learnt from history. Bravado is not enough if you don’t have the muscle to back it up.

The economy wasn’t great for Modi but even a simple rupee or two cess on fuel specifically aimed at improving military preparedness would have gone a long way. The fact is that the Chinese have most of the cards and they know it. Our leaders have failed us and continue to fail us. We can at best hope for the Chinese to withdraw somewhat and we will then be shown that as some great victory while just waiting for the next incursion. Doklam taught us nothing, we are in no better state now after that and with the stress on our economy, we won’t be doing anything the next few years. We are in a tough spot and no amount of lipstick on that pig will make a difference.

 

[IndianHawk]

Ha ha .. indian government will not sanction any budget to acqure boat.. it's even very hard to get budget for mountain gear for army. .. normal politician thinks what is the use of boats and navy on mountains..

We already have Marcos with navy boats there.

 

[muralidon924]

politburo and Xi jinping preaching others about power in hand of a small group

 

[ezsasa]

Ha ha .. indian government will not sanction any budget to acqure boat.. it's even very hard to get budget for mountain gear for army. .. normal politician thinks what is the use of boats and navy on mountains..

what is needed there are good, ramming boats. Boats that can give and take ramming, irrespective of the speed.

Because that’s what is going to happen next.

 

[ninja hattori]

was curious y an exercise was conducted just a month before last years modi xi summit,

amd named Changtan prahar,

this what I found,

Tibetan Changtang[edit]

​

The Changtang Nature Reserve​

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​

Most of the Tibetan Changtang is now protected nature reserves consisting of the Chang Tang Nature Reserve, the second-largest nature reserve in the world, and four new adjoining smaller reserves totaling 496,000 square kilometres (192,000 sq mi) of connected nature reserves that represent an area almost as large as Spain. Since the reserves have been established there has been a welcome increase in the numbers of endangered species. The protected areas stretch across parts of the Tibet Autonomous Region, Xinjiang and Qinghai in China.
Located in the Nagqu prefecture, the average elevation of Tibetan Changtang is as high as 5,000 meters. The Nagqu Horse Festival is the most important festival here.

Ladakhi Changtang​

Only a small part of Changtang crosses the border into Ladakh, in India. It is, however, on a historically important route for travellers journeying from Ladakh to Lhasa, and now has many different characteristics due to being part of India.
As in the rest of Ladakh, Changtang has been experiencing many socio-economical developments since the late twentieth century. Ladakh is one of the regions most exposed to international mass tourism in India. Centuries-old cultural and social fabrics are now changing rapidly, influenced by consumerist and modern lifestyles. This is becoming a source of both concern and hope for the populace of the region. Another major influence in the region is Tibetan settlement at the behest of the Tibetan government-in-exile. The settlement was first established in 1963 with almost 3,000 residents but today it has more than 7,000 settlers. For administrative purposes, the Ladakh settlement is divided into two, Sonamling and Changtang.
The Changthang Wildlife Sanctuary is home to many rare species of flora and fauna, which are well cared for in this wildlife sanctuary. The sanctuary is located at high altitude in the Ladakh district of Jammu and Kashmir.
The Changtang Wildlife Sanctuary is surrounded by Three large and world-famous water lakes, the Tsomoriri, the Tsokar Lake and the Pangong Tso.
Tsomoriri is one of the huge mountain lakes in the southeastern part of Ladakh. Karzok village at 4,560 metres (14,960 ft) above sea level is situated on the northwest bank of this lake and is claimed to be the world's highest year-round inhabited village. The Tsokar Lake lies in the Rupshu valley and it is the famous Salt Lake of Ladakh.
The Changtang Wildlife Sanctuary has natural grasslands and a wide variety of more than 200 species of wild plants grow in the higher pastures of this area, most of which is edible for animals.
​

Hamlets[edit]​

Changtang hamlets were established when many Tibetan nomads, mostly from western Tibet, fled and settled down in the adjoining places of Ladakh. There are more than 3,500 Tibetan refugees residing in the Changtang region who depend primarily on livestock, with agriculture being their secondary occupation. These nomads were organized into the Tibetan refugee settlements in 1977 by the Central Tibetan Administration, Dharamsala, with help from Government of India and the state government at nine different places: Nyoma, Kagshung, Goyul, Hanley, Sumdho, Samedh, Karnag, Chushul and Churmur. These settlements are scattered across the high-altitude plateau with an average elevation of 4,700 metres (15,400 ft). The temperature in the region varies from −5 to −35 °C (23 to −31 °F) in winter and up to a maximum of 30 °C (86 °F) in summer. Large areas of Changtang are semi-arid, with very little vegetation growth in the whole region. Agricultural lands and pastures are confined to limited areas along the riverbanks (Yatoo et al., 2014). The average snowfall is less than 10 mm (0.39 in) occurring usually during the months of December, January and February. Unusual and excess snowfall as happened in March 2012, can be fatal to the livestock of the nomads. Sometimes, goats and sheep cannot get access to the grass for grazing for period up to 15 days. This constitutes the most critical part of the year for the nomads (Yatoo et al., 2014).
Education in Ladakh is looked after entirely by the SOS Tibetan Children Village, one of the non-profit institutions providing education to the Tibetan children. There is a facility for crèche to tenth standard. Most of students attend day school, but there are also boarding facilities for very poor students and those from nomadic camps. Almost all children get a chance to go to school, and the general education level of the children is fairly good. The settlements have one modern allopathic hospital and one Tibetan medical and Astro clinic. There is also a bird sanctuary.
​

Changthang Wildlife Sanctuary[edit]​

The Changthang Wildlife Sanctuary (or the Changthang Cold Desert Wildlife Sanctuary) is a high altitude wildlife sanctuary located in the Ladakhi adjunct of the Changtang plateau in the Leh District, Jammu and Kashmir. It is important as one of the few places in India with a population of the kiang or Tibetan wild ass, as well as the rare black-necked crane.
The Changtang Cold Desert Wildlife Sanctuary is part of the Hindu Kush Himalaya, the natural enchantress.
The altitude of the sanctuary varies from 4,300 to 5,800 metres (14,000 to 19,000 ft), and the topography is formed of deep gorges and vast plateaus. There are around 11 lakes and 10 marshes in the Changtang Cold Desert Sanctuary, and the majestic Indus River flows through the sanctuary, dividing it into two parts.
The cold desert of this wildlife sanctuary is sparse but the marginal conditions have resulted in species with some remarkable characteristics. Seven rare and endangered plants which some believe have medicinal properties were discovered here by C.P. Kala. Three of these species are listed as vulnerable and one as endangered on the IUCN Red List (Arnebia euchroma, Geranium sibiricum, Lancea tibetica, Lloydia serotina, and Ephedra gerardiana).[SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP]
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Other geographic features[edit]​

The Tso Moriri is among the highest lakes in the world of its size. Tso Moriri is spread over an area of 120 km[SUP]2[/SUP] (46 sq mi), with a maximum depth of 40 m (130 ft) and situated at an altitude of 4,525 m (14,846 ft). In November 2002, the lake was designated as a Ramsar site.
The Pangong Tso is situated at a height of around 4,240 m (13,910 ft). It covers an area of 134 km[SUP]2[/SUP] (52 sq mi) (from India to China). The water in India is salty, in China interest not, but in spite of that, during the winter the water freezes.
The Pashmina goat is famous for its ultra fine Cashmere wool. Pasmina in Persian means 'made from wool' and in Kashmiri it translates to 'soft gold'. This breed of goat inhabits the Changthang plateau and therefrom gets its name. Pashmina shawls are hand spun in Kashmir and Nepal.​

Seems whole of the establishment has its eyes set somewhere else.