India China LAC & International Border Discussions

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Gshvar

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Moving along roads around Pangong lake is time consuming. If Chinese are clever they will secure major heights around the lake and move from middle on the lake to reduce their deployment time.
Drawback: it is only possible in summer. Or may be in winters using ice crawlers.
 

mist_consecutive

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Also Chinese perceive lac at fingure 2. Which we have blocked them from patrolling .

Gokhale is saying china wants to prevent India from going till fingure 8 ( Indian perception of lac is fingure 8 while actual lac is fingure4).

Area west of fingure 4 was and is in our control.
Many Guys here confused What is LAC or What is No mans area
Even though It is discussed to death on this Thread since last week
Dictating what is LAC & Claim line here from my earlier post -

Let's first understand what is LAC, and what is claimed territory.

LAC -
Line of actual control, means what we/Chinese actually have control.
What defines LAC? If troops patrol/have access to the area, it can be pretty much said to be under control since boots on the ground dictate territory.

Claim Line - Line till which we claim to be our territory. Claim line is often different from the actual control line in the disputed area.

Example - LoC is Line of Actual Control by definition because both India and Pakistan realistically control till this line.
Gilgit-Baltistan is under Claim Line which we claim, but we do not have actual control.

Indian LAC - Finger 8 (we patrolled till there)
Chinese LAC - Finger 4 (Chinese patrolled till there in vehicles, they have road till finger 4)

Indian Claim Line - East of Sirijap.
Chinese Claim Line - Finger 2

Agree?
 

WARREN SS

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Let's first understand what is LAC, and what is claimed territory.

LAC -
Line of actual control, means what we/Chinese actually have control.
What defines LAC? If troops patrol/have access to the area, it can be pretty much said to be under control since boots on the ground dictate territory.

Claim Line - Line till which we claim to be our territory. Claim line is often different from the actual control line in the disputed area.

Example - LoC is Line of Actual Control by definition because both India and Pakistan realistically control till this line.
Gilgit-Baltistan is under Claim Line which we claim, but we do not have actual control.

Now coming back to your reply -

Here To explain again

This famous 8 fingers Of LAC

F5,6,7,8 Lies in No man land

PLA claims Upto Finger 2 And India Claims Upto Fingers

1591470689672.png


PLA has Buid Base on Finger 5 Since 1999 And it was constructed the road Till Its Base At finger 5

1591471430887.png


1591471254217.png
 

IndianHawk

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Dictating what is LAC & Claim line here from my earlier post -




Indian LAC - Finger 8 (we patrolled till there)
Chinese LAC - Finger 4 (Chinese patrolled till there in vehicles, they have road till finger 4)

Indian Claim Line - East of Sirijap.
Chinese Claim Line - Finger 2

Agree?


No.
Actual Lac is at fingur 4.
Indian perception of lac till fingure 8.
Chinese perception of lac till figure 2.

India claim line all the way to aksai chin.
Chinese claim line further west than lac.
 

WARREN SS

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Indian LAC - Finger 8 (we patrolled till there)
Nope We Never Gone beyond Finger 5 Because Chinese already had Military base Like ITBP Gora post on Finger 5 Since 1999
Its Almost 60 km on foot If you patrol till Finger 8
Impossible Patrols are not bigger than 5 km

Also as @Shashank Nayak said There is steep bridge From gora camp to finger 4 Which Partically Makes hard To take AFV there
 
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Hari Sud

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Figure work of finger area In the photo attached. Sirijap was lost in 1962, Where 29 Gurkhas and Major Dan Singh Thapa (later brigadier) lost lives until last bullet. Moving from Sirijap to Indian post (established later) is next to impossible. The footpath cannot transport more than a person or two at one time.

Hence where is the threat...... (photo from a post on another website)

B795DC9B-FDAC-42AD-B69C-91DF394C4D19.jpeg
 

IndianHawk

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Figure work of finger area In the photo attached. Sirijap was lost in 1962, Where 29 Gurkhas and Major Dan Singh Thapa (later brigadier) lost lives until last bullet. Moving from Sirijap to Indian post (established later) is next to impossible. The footpath cannot transport more than a person or two at one time.

Hence where is the threat......

View attachment 49524

Like I said fingure 4 jutes into the lake . No vehicle can cross it. Only some foot soldiers
 

Popeye

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We should give threat to chinkis, if they didn't returned, we will demolished cpak road & under construction bhasa dam.
 

mist_consecutive

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Here To explain again

This famous 8 fingers Of LAC

F5,6,7,8 Lies in No man land

PLA claims Upto Finger 2 And India Claims Upto Fingers

View attachment 49522

PLA has Buid Base on Finger 5 Since 1999 And it was constructed the road Till Its Base At finger 5

View attachment 49525

View attachment 49523
Figure work of finger area In the photo attached. Sirijap was lost in 1962, Where 29 Gurkhas and Major Dan Singh Thapa (later brigadier) lost lives until last bullet. Moving from Sirijap to Indian post (established later) is next to impossible. The footpath cannot transport more than a person or two at one time.

Hence where is the threat...... (photo from a post on another website)

View attachment 49524
@WARREN SS @Hari Sud Both of your description of fingers vary, which one is correct?
 

Hari Sud

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jik60

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Interesting times ahead.

China has occupied Indian territory, and this is on completely different levels that of Doklam.
I see there is a growing murmur in population for a statement/clarity upon what is happening on the border, fueled especially by trolls from Pakistan and China and happily joined by India's own anti-national elements itself.

Times are critical ahead because -
  • All the tough talk and strong fist of BJP & India will go down the drain if we allow China to cede our territory. I see a massive negative sentiment towards BJP brewing in the same nationalistic people who supported BJP in the first place.

  • Since times are crucial and we are yet to see the tough times of COVID-19 in coming months embracing India completely, going to war will be a tough, and maybe even a wrong decision.

  • If we just suppress this whole incident and bow down in front of China (which I predict is going to happen :frusty: ), this will be perceived as major weakness & incompatibility of India's military which will not only be credited by China as well as Pakistan in the future, but will also affect our morale massively.
[My Prediction] In the coming months I believe nothing will change at the ground, with both armies digging at eyeball to eyeball positions. Coming winter and snowfall, both armies will slowly pull out troops with forward positions reinforced with all-weather bunkers by Chinese so that they can maintain their presence. India too will do the same albeit at a lesser scale than Chinese.

Slowly things will be forgotten and it will be daily business as usual with China practically have been altered ou LAC without any fight from India.

This episode will be cashed majorly by Congress and other opposition parties with a great amount of success. Govt. will change, Indians will forget, but the World will remember we Indians are a nation of cowards who never had an appetite for fighting.


I realized one brigade will come after me saying no Indian territory has been occupied by Chinese. Providing OSINT satellite imagery, which was already posted via tweets in this thread.

View attachment 49517
View attachment 49518View attachment 49519
Wow!! gr8 post. These kinds of personal opinions should be made pinned onto the walls of Redfort. the most amusing part is the linkages of the events by the writer from capturing of large land by chinkis to a gov/regime change in India, like a average Nextflix series.

I sometimes feel that the paid corona viruses and porkies online bots do better job in their propaganda than our self righteous, omniscient armchairs, in the name of OSNIT.

This is the only truth and fact to shove upto.........
 

Bhadra

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So now that the Border Personnel's Meeting at Lt Gen level has ended and there is no official brief on it so far, some tidbits have started coming out from the media.

India Today has reported that the major demand of Indian sides were ;

1. Restoration of Status quo to what it was in Apr 2020 in Ladakh.
2. China must pull out military close to LAC
3. Bid to Change Status quo at Pengang Tso must end.
4. Withdrawal of China from Finger4 Area and removing all shelters.
5. All past agreements should be respected.

So folks what do you make out from the Indian demands/ What in your opinion is the focus of Indian diplomacy and Indian military leadership. What in your opinion is reflected in these demand and where the Chinese would get stuck up and why>

Is this the maximalist "First Offer" of Negotiation process ? If so what is your guess on settlement offers? Where can the issue settle?

An India Today Video is here. The major highlight of the video is the beautiful anchor calling Galwan River as Galwan Lulla / Galwan Nulla * pronouncing it as a Lulla. God save defense reporting in India. Gaurav Sawant also calls it Nullah (Nalla)... calling a river a nullah is a sin.

 
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Tridev123

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I would like people with access to relevant information to please explain -
1.How much can China and the PLA throw into Tibet for deployment against India?. They obviously cannot and will not transfer their entire army to fight
India. In the worst case scenario what type of manpower strength are we
looking at?. The PLA army organisation is different from ours and other western
countries(UK) and comparing divisions or corps would not be suitable. So in
terms of simple soldier count what can Beijing throw at us?. We will not go into
comparing equipment numbers as I accept China may have an edge.

2.In the worst case scenario against their stated numbers of soldiers what is our
strength?. How do we match up in terms of trained soldiers. Can we at least
equal them numerically?.

If the answer is an Yes and we do match them in numbers the common man in India will feel reassured. I believe that our 1 battle hardened jawan is atleast equal to 2( never seen combat) PLA soldiers.

The Chinese may have more equipment in terms of tanks, artillery, mbrl etc. but
battles are not won purely on superior numbers. Good tactics and planning can play a decisive role. The Second World War has many instances of armies having
lessor numbers of equipment winning against larger opponents because of superior tactics. The fighting spirit of the soldiers also play an important part. The
British used our soldiers to fight against the Nazis precisely because of our warrior
qualities. We saved their ass many times in the World Wars.

If small Vietnam can lift their finger to the Chinese, India is a far bigger adversary.
We need to be confident. The Chinese usually like to win their wars without fighting. Scaring their enemies and psychologically defeating them and getting them to
retreat without a fight is their speciality. Give them a good fight and they will run away like dogs with their tails tucked between their legs.
 

indus

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Chinese are playing a psychological game with us. They hardly have intent to capture territory. Only playing hardball with us because differences in perception on LaC can be utilized as a negotiation tactic in the current situation. The real intention is to prevent India from joining the USA camp as the West tries to pin down China on Corona spread. Second reason is our hard stance on taking back PoK. Probably India was preparing for an operation which China seems to have conveinently stopped for now.
 
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