India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[Skyh3ck]

Let us start from 1947 and much prior to that from General Zorawar Singh and even the travel of Huen Tsang.

Why don't we claim territory till and including Kailash.. it was no man's land hardly anyone lived there.. but Hindus have pilgrimage for thoysands of years on this ares.. Chinese are towards the eastern coast.. .Hindus and Indians always fail to claim

 

[Abhijeet Dey]

 

[SRao]

This map doesn't show any Chinese camp west of figure 4.

It is a bit surprising that even experts like Nitin use words like "did not cross the LAC". Which LAC is he talking about? India's definition of LAC at F8? If so, they have not only crossed it, but are camping within it. Is it China's definition of LAC?If so, then the China have now full control of areas that they always wanted- their version LAC ( I am assuming F4 was their version, and not F1!). So if he is referring to this "new" LAC, then yeah, both India and China are on either side of this LAC - at F4.

 

[doreamon]

Huh? Definitely a lack of comprehension- not sure on who's end.

You are saying China was controlling areas east of F4, but all these years, like a very good neighbor, "allowed" India to patrol there. Simply out of the goodness of their hearts. Chinese were nice and generous and friendly to us Indians, Thank you. And since now they have decided to stop being generous and charitable, and have decided to actually camp out there permanently, we are crying foul? That's what you comprehend of the situation?

Time for us Indians, all of us, to wake up and smell the coffee.

India asserts LAC passes through finger 8 and china claims it passes through finger 2 .
India had previously patrolled till Finger 8, but had been largely confined to Finger 4 due to lack of access. China had made tracked road till finger 4 since 1999...
It was just after Finger 4 that a smaller Indian patrol team encountered a much larger Chinese group on May 10. Despite all the drills, the stand-off deteriorated into violence, with injuries sustained on both sides. In 2017, this was also the location for the stone-pelting incident by the two patrol teams on August 15.

They harbour a grudge from Galwan, when we pushed back, and so wanted a lesson to be taught ..
Its nt as simple as u assert like china has occupied indian territory while coward indians were watching .. Get over ur emotions .Take a chill pill .

 

[WARREN SS]

But we need to somehow bridge the deficiency of not being able to take our vehicles along, because of the ridge at F4. We need a supply line east of F4, otherwise we cant do much when the Chinese come in force to attack..

Attack on One Front Will be Replied on different fronts
As Far as Agreement goes

Gora Post Already well entrenched after this Ancident

What We Need Is Speed Boats Or Light Patrol Boats Like Chinese In Lake
Chinese Also using boasts For Ambush raids

the Propaganda Picture they posted You can see Patrol boats in back end

 

[Blue Water Navy]

Yeah!! Yeah!!! Let them bring all of their machinery. Why left those radars behind which can detect f22 raptors?!! To detect our mki's.

If CCP have so much obligations with India then why not fire and take it by themselves?!! As they consider themselves as a superpower. So, show the world their military capability.

Or, no they are a peace loving nation and a responsible superpower.

If its their stand at this. Then surely they are !!!

But surely as any common man would understand. As while the world is fighting their factory made virus. They are onto land and stock grabbing. Is this a RESPONSIBLE superpower?

For those who from the west want us (India & China) to go to war. That's really ain't gonna happen. Because CCP won't fight. And India won't fight either if they don't fire.

But then again a big BUT if they fire, we will make sure or our most respected organization in our country IA will make sure that we put a Brahmos into their ass*s. Even if for the name Brahmos we only have half of the copyright.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

It is a bit surprising that even experts like Nitin use words like "did not cross the LAC". Which LAC is he talking about? India's definition of LAC at F8? If so, they have not only crossed it, but are camping within it. Is it China's definition of LAC?If so, then the China have now full control of areas that they always wanted- their version LAC ( I am assuming F4 was their version, and not F1!). So if he is referring to this "new" LAC, then yeah, both India and China are on either side of this LAC - at F4.

Nitin said China has infact crossed across the LAC at Finger 8 and camped near F4. He said that China crossed the LAC only at Pangong lake, and not elsewhere like Galwan valley, Hot springs... etc

 

[mokoman]

No I dont know how many soldiers have reached the area(ofcourse, not enoug to prevent all those red camps you are seeing on the maps being posted by others here!). So, tell me how many have reached there? And yes, what are they doing? I know what they were not doing till last month- not letting China have a free reign till F4.

You are acting like they reached Delhi .
Our gov/military are "doing the needfull".
As for why we cant kick them out , we cant afford an escalation. They are not like Pakistan .
Also i don't think there was an intelligence failure like in kargil . They simply moved a few Km in , a big breach of trust .

I guess we building the road was the trigger.

 

[IndianHawk]

It is a bit surprising that even experts like Nitin use words like "did not cross the LAC". Which LAC is he talking about? India's definition of LAC at F8? If so, they have not only crossed it, but are camping within it. Is it China's definition of LAC?If so, then the China have now full control of areas that they always wanted- their version LAC ( I am assuming F4 was their version, and not F1!). So if he is referring to this "new" LAC, then yeah, both India and China are on either side of this LAC - at F4.

LAC is at fingure 4. But even that is not exact as China says lac is at fingure2 while we say lac is at fingure8.

So both try to patrol across fingure 4 whenever possible. Now Chinese are trying to block our patrol after fingure 4 . Which we are seeing as change in status quo!

 

[Abhijeet Dey]

Why don't we claim territory till and including Kailash.. it was no man's land hardly anyone lived there.. but Hindus have pilgrimage for thoysands of years on this ares.. Chinese are towards the eastern coast.. .Hindus and Indians always fail to claim

Read the story below which is being circulated in whatsapp groups:

Lesson from story : It is the local Indians, who themselves are responsible for slavery of our nation for 1000 years by siding with Enemies.

The year was 1555. Portuguese colonial power was at its peak in the 1500’s. They destroyed Zamorins of Calicut. Defeated the Sultan of Bijapur. Took away Daman from the Sultan of Gujarat, Established a colony in Mylapore, Captured Bombay and made Goa as their headquarters. And while they were at it, pretty much unchallenged, they even ruined the ancient Kapaleeswarar Temple to build a Church over it.

Their next target, the super profitable port of Mangalore.

Their only bad luck, just 14 kilometers south of Mangalore was the small settlement of Ullal - ruled then by a feisty 30 year old woman - *RANI ABBAKKA CHOWTA*

Initially, they took her lightly and sent a few boats and soldiers to capture and bring her back to Goa - Those boats never came back.

Shocked and enraged, they sent a huge fleet of ships this time, under the command of much celebrated Admiral Dom Álvaro da Silveira - The admiral soon returned, badly injured and empty handed.

Thereafter, another Portuguese fleet was sent - only a few injured from the crew managed to make it back.

Then the Portuguese went on to capture the Mangalore port and the fort anyways, perhaps planning to tackle Rani Abbakka Chowta from the convenient distance of the Mangalore fort.

After the successful capture of Mangalore, a huge army under João Peixoto, an experienced Portuguese General was sent to Ullal.

The brief was simple: Subjugate Ullal and capture Abbakka Chowta.

The plan was foolproof- there was no way a 30 year old lady with a few men could withstand the might of an army of thousands with advanced weapons.

*The Portuguese reached Ullal and found it deserted. Abbakka was nowhere in sight.*

_*They roamed around, relaxed and thanked their stars - Just when they were about to call it a victory - Mrs Chowta attacked with 200 of her chosen men - there was chaos all around and many portuguese lost their lives even without a fight.*_

General João Peixoto was assassinated, 70 Portuguese were captured and the rest just ran away.

*So if you’re Abbakka Chowta, who’s just defeated a large army of aggressors, killed a general, captured fighters and defended her city - What will you do?*

- Rest and enjoy the moment right?

- Right?

- No!

*Rani Abbakka Chowta, rode with her men towards Mangalore that same night, and laid a siege of the Mangalore fort - She not just broke inside the fort successfully - but assassinated Admiral Mascarenhas the Chief of the Portuguese power there and forced the remaining Portuguese to vacate the fort.*_

She didn’t just stop at this but went on to even capture the Portuguese settlement at Kundapura, a full 100 kms, north of Mangalore - Just to make a point.

The Portuguese finally managed to get back at Abbakka Chowta by convincing her estranged husband, (a traitor) to betray for money. She was arrested and put in the prison where she revolted again and was killed while trying to escape.

*Abbakka Chowta was a Jain who fought against the Portuguese for four decades, with an army comprising of both Hindus and Muslims, a full 300 years before the First War of Indian Independence in 1857.*

What did we Indians do to her, as a mark of our respect and gratitude? - We just forgot her.

We didn’t name our girls after her. We didn’t even teach her stories to our kids.

Yes, we did release a Postal Stamp in her name, named a boat after her and erected 2 statues - yes just 2 statues in the whole of India for someone who should be our national hero.

The Indian Coast Guard ship ICGS Rani Abbakka the 1st of a series of five inshore patrol vessels built at Hindustan Shipyard Ltd is named after Abbakka Mahadevi.

We might have got to read a chapter about her in our text books, had she been a European or an American.

Many talk about her being the last Indian to have the power of the agni-ban. In all this cacophony, our generation has lost a great hero - a great source of inspiration.

Still wondering why you’ve not heard about her yet?

 

[mist_consecutive]

Nihilistic approach at its best. Lack Objectivity

Also known as realistic thinking after multiple years of analysis of Indian military behavior.
More of a discussion/personal view of the situation hence lack objectivity thereof.

But wait, nihilistic approach? What did we do apart from chest-thumping and crying foul after Pakistan (tried to) attacked our military installations and attacked our jets with long-range BVRs? Was not such a balant aggression punishable at least two-fold?

Isn't that temporary blue camp is the reason why we are mobilizing forces ! So how exactly is it lost. ??

Yes. Temporary sure, but it is a Chinese incursion into our territory. Lost because we have (yet) not retrieved those positions.

That blue camp you are showing is not ahead of lac its exactly on lac afaik. And it's a temporary camp. No concrete structure!

Second you blacked a huge area upwards the camp showing Chinese control. That's not how it works. 50-60 Chinese soldier can't control that much area at best they can defend their temporary camp for a while.

Third in the end who will out more soldier will control more area as it's all temporary area and neither tanks can be mobilised here.

The blue camp is ahead of LAC by ~1 km if not more. Yes no concrete structure because it was recently occupied.

I blacked out the area because if Chinese control the western, eastern & north-eastern sides of finger-4 then India practically has no access to those heights. It's as good as under Chinese control because we cannot access this area, whereas Chinese can easily (via drain valley to peaks).

Please pardon me, making and editing satellite images is a tedious job.

Third, yes that is universally true for any territory. Tanks are not needed but boots on the grounds(temporarily) are. Currently, it is under Chinese boots.

This map doesn't show any Chinese camp west of figure 4.

I posted the satellite imagery from 27th May, it shows Chinese camps. Pay attention to Mr. Nitin A.Gokhale's statement -

But the Chinese now want to prevent India from going to its own perception of the LAC.

Chinese are not allowing us to reach what they perceived as LAC, i.e., finger 4 from the diagram.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

It is a bit surprising that even experts like Nitin use words like "did not cross the LAC". Which LAC is he talking about? India's definition of LAC at F8? If so, they have not only crossed it, but are camping within it. Is it China's definition of LAC?If so, then the China have now full control of areas that they always wanted- their version LAC ( I am assuming F4 was their version, and not F1!). So if he is referring to this "new" LAC, then yeah, both India and China are on either side of this LAC - at F4.

You are wrong. China doesn't want this area. They want the whole world.

 

[daya]

Why don't we claim territory till and including Kailash.. it was no man's land hardly anyone lived there.. but Hindus have pilgrimage for thoysands of years on this ares.. Chinese are towards the eastern coast.. .Hindus and Indians always fail to claim

Yes, we should do this immediately. Our all sacred books depicts Kailash Mansarovar as a prime pilgrimage for hindus. Even, the policing and postal activities were taken care by India from 1919 to 1952 by Indian government and a Postal stamp issued by Maharaja of Jammu Kashmir shows Tibet under control of Maharaja, itself. Though, the authenticity of Postal Stamp is still to be verified.

 

[IndianHawk]

But we need to somehow bridge the deficiency of not being able to take our vehicles along, because of the ridge at F4. We need a supply line east of F4, otherwise we cant do much when the chinese come in force to attack..

How will chinese come with?? Fingure is a blockage . No vehicle can cross it as of now. It jutes into the water.

 

[rajesh agarawal]

LOL!! Dude I didn't even noticed it until now.

But that is not it what gave it away.

Yeah that is my lastname. Any problem ?

 

[IndianHawk]

I blacked out the area because if Chinese control the western, eastern & north-eastern sides of finger-4 then India practically has no access to those heights. It's as good as under Chinese control because we cannot access this area, whereas Chinese can easily (via drain valley to peaks).

We have access to those heights from other sides. Also we can always paradrop troops there.

Secondly Chinese making a temporary camp doesn't make territory there as we too routenly camp east of lac. That's what happens there.

It will be only be Chinese if we allow Chinese to build the permanent structures for future marking.
That's why we are not budging from standoff.

You should read on previous standoffs . They are all related to trying to make permanent structure.

There is no possession without permanent structure. And that will lead to war.

 

[IndianHawk]

Chinese are not allowing us to reach what they perceived as LAC, i.e., finger 4 from the diagram.

Also Chinese perceive lac at fingure 2. Which we have blocked them from patrolling .

Gokhale is saying china wants to prevent India from going till fingure 8 ( Indian perception of lac is fingure 8 while actual lac is fingure4).

Area west of fingure 4 was and is in our control.

 

[WARREN SS]

Also Chinese perceive lac at fingure 2. Which we have blocked them from patrolling .

Gokhale is saying china wants to prevent India from going till fingure 8 ( Indian perception of lac is fingure 8 while actual lac is fingure4).

Area west of fingure 4 was and is in our control.

Many Guys here confused What is LAC or What is No mans area
Even though It is discussed to death on this Thread since last week

 

[cereal killer]

Read the story below which is being circulated in whatsapp groups:

Lesson from story : It is the local Indians, who themselves are responsible for slavery of our nation for 1000 years by siding with Enemies.

Interesting read Salute to brave queen but I doubt Portuguese to attack in thousands that's a bit too much unless they were aided by Indians themselves. Anyways nobody is aiding with Chinese here. Some are Chinese bots, some suffer from inferiority complex & some just underestimate Indian Army. Scars of 1962 perhaps.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Your Report Lack Facts

First there Is No altercation of LAC or What India Presume as LAC

Finger 4 Is area Which was Never in control by Indian forces
We used To Patrol there So is PLA

While PLA Always had Camp at finger 5 Since 2004 Which Connected by road See Satellite image

We use To Patrol Till 4 Which We doing Even now

Clash no clashes We Will patrol on Finger 4

To Stop Are patrol Chinese Will actually ha s To Get in Action

India Is Also build Infrastructure in Gora Camp rapidly after this Incident Lies btw F4 And F3

View attachment 49520

Let's first understand what is LAC, and what is claimed territory.

LAC - Line of actual control, means what we/Chinese actually have control.
What defines LAC? If troops patrol/have access to the area, it can be pretty much said to be under control since boots on the ground dictate territory.

Claim Line - Line till which we claim to be our territory. Claim line is often different from the actual control line in the disputed area.

Example - LoC is Line of Actual Control by definition because both India and Pakistan realistically control till this line.
Gilgit-Baltistan is under Claim Line which we claim, but we do not have actual control.

Now coming back to your reply -

First there Is No altercation of LAC or What India Presume as LAC

Indian LAC is said to be at finger 8, we used to patrol beyond finger-4 regularly which is clear from videos (Doklam ITBP-PLA fight) and numerous others.
Chinese LAC is at finger 4, they have made roads till finger 4 and patrol on the vehicle. Chinese do not venture beyond finger-4.

Finger 4 Is area Which was Never in control by Indian forces
We used To Patrol there So is PLA

What do you mean by control? We used to patrol beyond finger 4, PLA used not to patrol beyond finger 4.
No one had control, or both had control over finger 4.

We use To Patrol Till 4 Which We doing Even now

Wrong, and that is the part of the dispute. Chinese has camped between the valley of finger-3 & finger-4 (was under Indian control because Chinese never came there for patrolling/claiming it). Due to it, we do not have any access to the area beyond finger 4 (which was our LAC as we patrolled till there).