India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[tarunraju]

The intresting thing is, our Indian specialist from top thinktank Mr Ye Hailin thought it's designed from Modi admnistration:
Google translate:

Some netizens asked what to think of India ’s recent actions. From a personal point of view, India ’s provocative actions come from three basic judgments in New Delhi. First, China-US relations have deteriorated irretrievably. The full suppression of China by the United States is an arrow of disengagement. . The second is that China does not and will not regard India as its main threat. The third is that India may copy the achievements of the Donglang incident, and even coerce China to agree to solve the border problem according to the status quo.

The writer must either be delsuional or delusional.

India is fighting your wuhan virus on one front, Kashmir insurgency on another, an economic crisis on another, a migrant crisis on yet another, communal riots on another, and have just been hit by the largest cyclone in the past 100 years, that too in our eastern region.

And you think we'd pick a fight with China? Are you people this delusional?

I have another theory.

Xi Jinping has Jiang Zemin's faction at his throat, sparing no effort to ensure that he gets out after his 10-year term; Coronavirus is his Chernobyl moment (with 1000x more global- and geopolitical impact), he's losing big to the US in his trade-war; is unable to pull off that big Taiwan invasion that he dreamed of; and as of yesterday, the US closed HK special trade terms, stripping Chinese businesses of at least $800 billion in annual transshipment volume taking advantage of HK's independent trade relations.

So Xi now wants to pick a fight with nuclear-triad equipped India to create a major diversion, because he knows Modi won't repeat Nehru's mistakes, there will be an escalation, and that will keep both the CCP and the Chinese masses distracted.

This also explains why there are units from outside PLA Western Theater Command at Pangong Tso.

Frankly, if India wanted to pluck low-hanging strategic fruits, we would hit Pakistan. Your president is feeding you the sweetest hunny.

 

[Hellfire]

Lt Gen HS Panag...
What has happened to this old man...
He is disputing basic details of ground in such a manner that Chinese will start quoting him as an authentic source being former Northern Army Commander.

That is not on... that is being stupid.

He is fit only to weigh eggs and check the belt of officer cadre

 

[Assassin 2.0]

I have watched almost all the Chinese "India specialist" comments very week from cyber, some are from civil thinktanks, some are from government background, Mr Ye Hailin to be said visited all the posts with LAC China side.

All of them were quite surpirsed with recent tension between two nations, they are all guessing why Modi administration is doing so at this time. I don't believe the CCP has willing to mess the things up at this point. We are already busy on virus, economy recovery, HK, Taiwan, USA, Trump now.




I think this is the typical misjudgement because of miscommunication. After Doklam standoff, PLA invested a lots on equipments and infra. along the LAC, it looks like we are planning something big, but it only proves that we are fast reacted by better equipments.

Just like decades ago, when our poor navy left harbor and went throught the Taiwan strait, all best US destroyeres are alraedy there wactching us. It's not because they are preparing hit PLAN all the time, it's just because they had better intelligence and mobilities.

 

[Hijibiji]

Bhai, tell me what is wrong with my words. Our fight is with the CCP regime and the PLA. The common man is not our enemy and eventually, we would want them to be prosperous for longterm peace in the region

Nothing wrong with your words but the funny thing is that rockdog liked it when you said "CCP would implode shortly". I found rockdog liking your post amusing

 

[ezsasa]

I have watched almost all the Chinese "India specialist" comments very week from cyber, some are from civil thinktanks, some are from government background, Mr Ye Hailin to be said visited all the posts with LAC China side.

All of them were quite surpirsed with recent tension between two nations, they are all guessing why Modi administration is doing so at this time. I don't believe the CCP has willing to mess the things up at this point. We are already busy on virus, economy recovery, HK, Taiwan, USA, Trump now.

Since there is not concept of independent think tanks in china, there is obviously a chance that they are not aware of agressive move made by who ever is in control of PLAGF in this sector.

I think this is the typical misjudgement because of miscommunication. After Doklam standoff, PLA invested a lots on equipments and infra. along the LAC, it looks like we are planning something big, but it only proves that we are fast reacted by better equipments.

Just like decades ago, when our poor navy left harbor and went throught the Taiwan strait, all best US destroyeres are alraedy there wactching us. It's not because they are preparing hit PLAN all the time, it's just because they had better intelligence and mobilities.

sure, you can have this argument. but bringing in a APC where the other side is on foot by choice, it's not the case that ITBP does not have access to armoured vehicles. if they had intention for a confrontation they too would have come on armoured vehicles, why would they risk their jawans.

bringing in an APC demonstrates either over compensating for insecurity or the PLAGF commander of that area has no intention of maintaining peace.

two parties when they want to be in sync, match each other as a show of trust.

 

[scatterStorm]

The war may cost PRC $50-60 billion of trade surplus per annum & choking of Malacca straits apart from battle casualties, deployment cost, & perennial hostility to its OBOR project.

Affirm, however Chinese always show some form of message. If the message haven't came yet, it will. But no war is happening. Skirmish is a possibility, but both sides aren't firing any bullets. That's a good thing.

CCP must realize one thing very seriously, "respect must be earned with respect".

Our territory is our internal matter, so CCP must stop there double standards PERIOD

 

[Waanar]

You have CAPFs and BSF for holding territories and rear area security. Alongwith IRBs.

They're supposed to be bound by ROEs and also overstretch the government's funding. Militias provide a pretty big bang for the measly buck.

Just hand guns out, make sure they get food for the time being and assign them sectors guided by maybe the SOF members to make sure they get some semblance of training.

No matter how much you pour in the military, it'll never be able to surpass the numbers required to cover the huge landmass of Tibet to deny blind spots without abandoning some posts elsewhere.
The militia also ends any chance of heavy mobilization of airborne assets and soldiers by the Chinese, no matter what they do, puts any movement at a severe risk and... Yes of course, melding with the civilian population and getting bombed would tilt the world's meter in our favor and fan anti Chini sentiments in local Tibetis.

Train some of the more bright militia members in MANPADS for extra sweat of poor Chinese pilots and cover airspace where our regular radars might not have coverage or just to make doubly sure.

Even the militia will need a good screening procedure to make sure they don't think of every human with small eyes to be "Chinki saala" and don't have hotshots in the midst but overall, I see the benefits outweighing the losses.
An example-

Fuck chinkis

Rohan ji is not going in this militia.


This will also bring a huge wave of nationalism among the people and could be used as the end all be all for the strategy of demographic change in PoK after the war. Please note-

Demographic change is IMPERATIVE if we don't want a repeat of constant bomb blasts across the country and an extended Counter insurgency period after merging those areas.

You think 26/11 was bad?
Imagine what will happen if we don't absolutely crush any chance of insurgency in the territories taken.

 

[rockdog]

Since there is not concept of independent think tanks in china, there is obviously a chance that they are not aware of agressive move made by who ever is in control of PLAGF in this sector.

Mr. Ye Hailin is Chief editor of SOUTH ASIA STUDIES, National Institute of International Strategy, Chinese Academy of Social Sciences (NIIS, CASS), Beijing. He is also director of the Center for Regional Security Studies in School of Advanced International and Area Studies, East China Normal University (ECNU), Shanghai and the chief secretary/ deputy director of the Center for South Asia Studies, CASS. He was elected as standing board member of Chinese Sociality of South Asia Studies in 2010.

[--Redacted: Please do not advertise these websites--]

As far as i know, he is among the group of decision making group to India.

 

[scatterStorm]

Guys how we can counter mighty s400
Theoretically s400 will shoot each and every missile s fired at china along lac ....if deployed
And it should have been deployed if China planning to do something seriously
Again what's about iafs mighty su30 ...and brahmos will it survive aganaist s400
Bdw iaf too believe s s400 is mighty
@Bleh @porky_kicker @sayareakd @ezsasa @Chinmoy

Provided if they've deployed s400 systems near LAC. Which they haven't. Yes its a formidable SAM, but there are measures.

Take the case of Falkland wars:
1. UK SAS was dropped to destroy entire airfield. They did it. Considering our sheer airbone troop size, we might as will do that.
2. But doing so would require swift use of EW, our jets have to defend our transport aircraft, which is tricky.
3. If we find the location, then simple a ballistic salvo such as Brahmos or Prahar can do the thing.

 

[Bhadra]

Read the entire thread from Nitin Gokhale...
=====
Finally, this is why the current standoff is different: One, a lot of planning and thought has gone into the assault from the Chinese side. And two, it is designed to provoke violent response.

One thing is for sure..
Chinese are very sensitive to images of their soldiers or their soldiers being looked down upon (say from a height more than their position)... or someone looking into their eyes... They are used to images of one bowing his head thrice to the Chinese empower. Han ego is hurt easily..
Last time they lost image was in Vietnam...
It appears this time It is going to be Ladakh....
However, I repeat such things makes the tasks of negotiating team difficult where the Chinese officials virtually start shouting....

 

[scatterStorm]

Didn't Israel defeat s300 in Syria. Turkey also destroyed a bunch of russian pantsir systems in syria and libya with drones.

S300 and S400 are very different systems. I suggest you use forum threads to understand why. S400 is still considered formidable. S400 is harder to jam. You need to be close to Jam these systems.

In such case an anti-radiation missile works best, but it can also be intercepted.

 

[ezsasa]

One thing is for sure..
Chinese are very sensitive to images of their soldiers or their soldiers being looked down upon (say from a height more than their position)... or someone looking into their eyes... They are used to images of one bowing his head thrice to the Chinese empower. Han ego is hurt easily..
Last time they lost image was in Vietnam...
It appears this time It is going to be Ladakh....
However, I repeat such things makes the tasks of negotiating team difficult where the Chinese officials virtually start shouting....

oh yes, i was making the same point few year back. in one of these indo-china military excercies, they edited their version of video shown in CGTN in such a way that it looked as of chinese guy was giving instructions to Indian side. they have fragile egos, so they overcompensate. like in this case bringing an APC against a foot patrol. they can justify which ever way they want, but outside world will always view it as over compensating.

 

[Sanglamorre]

Since there is not concept of independent think tanks in china, there is obviously a chance that they are not aware of agressive move made by who ever is in control of PLAGF in this sector.



sure, you can have this argument. but bringing in a APC where the other side is on foot by choice, it's not the case that ITBP does not have access to armoured vehicles. if they had intention for a confrontation they too would have come on armoured vehicles, why would they risk their jawans.

bringing in an APC demonstrates either over compensating for insecurity or the PLAGF commander of that area has no intention of maintaining peace.

two parties when they want to be in sync, match each other as a show of trust.

I'm not sure what their rationale was but bringing APCs in a place they couldn't even turn them was....short sighted, bordering on negligence.

 

[Mikesingh]

12,000 workers to be moved in special trains to complete vital infrastructure projects near China border amidst military standoff

The Ministry of Defence has asked for 11 special trains to transport around 12,000 workers from Jharkhand for road construction near the China border, reported Hindustan Times. The workers would be first taken to Jammu and Chandigarh and then ferried to regions close to the border areas in Uttarakhand, Ladakh, Himachal Pradesh, and Jammu and Kashmir.

The Government could not afford to lose time in the working season, which extends from May to November. They conceded that the standoff is uncertain and may continue for weeks. As such, pending road projects cannot be stalled for an indefinite period. Some work has already started on the strategic Darbuk-Shyok-Daulet Beg Oldie road in Ladakh.

Motr details here....

Road construction along China border to continue despite military standoff

11 special trains to carry 11,815 workers from Jharkhand to areas near China border to complete pending road protects by BRO | OpIndia News

www.opindia.com

We've been in deep slumber since decades, keeping the Chinese in good humour by not doing any construction activity at the border while the Chinese were going all out developing infrastructure at a frenetic pace. Needless to mention there was always that silly excuse why we did not want to construct roads etc there as 'it would facilitate movement of the Chinese'!!

But thankfully we've finally woken to the clear and present danger posed by the Chinese at the borders. Enough of the pacifist approach we've been following! Never mind if Gandhi is turning in his grave. In the present day we need to be realists and not romanticists and idealists living in a world of illusion.

 

[Craigs]

One thing is for sure..
Chinese are very sensitive to images of their soldiers or their soldiers being looked down upon (say from a height more than their position)... or someone looking into their eyes... They are used to images of one bowing his head thrice to the Chinese empower. Han ego is hurt easily..
Last time they lost image was in Vietnam...
It appears this time It is going to be Ladakh....
However, I repeat such things makes the tasks of negotiating team difficult where the Chinese officials virtually start shouting....

That is why with the Chinese there is no point in negotiating. Only danda works.

 

[ezsasa]

I'm not sure what their rationale was but bringing APCs in a place they couldn't even turn them was....short sighted, bordering on negligence.

for now i am filing it under "Overcompensating for their insecurities within".

 

[scatterStorm]

Indian Army miracle workers are pushing tanks up the mountains. According to the Chinese media, Indian T-90S are already in the theater. Now this Kabaddi game will get more interesting.

View attachment 49008
Representative picture of a T-72 with standard combat kit in Ladakh.

I hope they are in the plateau, but they can also be targeted by ATGM very easily if they try to enter a terrain which is restrictive. Considering the video we saw earlier, we can assume PLA would hide its troop in terrain and simply shoot and scoot.

Let just not underestimate our enemy here.

 

[mokoman]

They're supposed to be bound by ROEs and also overstretch the government's funding. Militias provide a pretty big bang for the measly buck.

Just hand guns out, make sure they get food for the time being and assign them sectors guided by maybe the SOF members to make sure they get some semblance of training.

No matter how much you pour in the military, it'll never be able to surpass the numbers required to cover the huge landmass of Tibet to deny blind spots without abandoning some posts elsewhere.
The militia also ends any chance of heavy mobilization of airborne assets and soldiers by the Chinese, no matter what they do, puts any movement at a severe risk and... Yes of course, melding with the civilian population and getting bombed would tilt the world's meter in our favor and fan anti Chini sentiments in local Tibetis.

Train some of the more bright ones in MANPADS for extra torture of Chinese airpower.

Even the militia will need a good screening procedure to make sure they don't think of every human with small eyes to be "Chinki saala" and don't have hotshots in the midst but overall, I see the benefits outweighing the losses.
An example-

Rohan ji is not going in this militia.


This will also bring a huge wave of nationalism among the people and could be used as the end all be all for the strategy of demographic change in PoK after the war. Please note-

Demographic change is IMPERATIVE if we don't want a repeat of constant bomb blasts across the country and an extended Counter insurgency period after merging those areas.

You think 26/11 was bad?
Imagine what will happen if we don't absolutely crush any chance of insurgency in the territories taken.

Militias to hold onto captured territories will throw a spanner in everything because we can throw a lot of bodies at them, that too in civilian areas which they can't bomb.
It'll be impossible for the Chinis to root us out if we're say.... More than the actual population of Tibet.

You ever heard the dissenting local populace? Ever heard of an express dissenting non local but very keen populace?

First of it's kind, I tell you.

Every little lane will be a possible death zone.
I'm sure military commanders who came up with a novel idea like Rashtriya Rifles can find a cheap, effective solution to get us into the fight.

I rather we get back Gilgit Baltistan, that gives us access to afghanistan,cut of china and pakistan which means end of CPEC, no more land route to indian ocean for china.Also the locals would be more welcoming.

Of course all this is a pipe dream.I pray we dont lose any territory in next 50 years.

 

[Suryavanshi]

I'm not sure what their rationale was but bringing APCs in a place they couldn't even turn them was....short sighted, bordering on negligence.

They were lucky we didn't bring gasoline and matchstick with us.
Anyway I think the APCs are still in our possession, or may be negosiation took place and everything went back to normal.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Mr. Ye Hailin is Chief editor of SOUTH ASIA STUDIES, National Institute of International Strategy, Chinese Academy of Social Sciences (NIIS, CASS), Beijing. He is also director of the Center for Regional Security Studies in School of Advanced International and Area Studies, East China Normal University (ECNU), Shanghai and the chief secretary/ deputy director of the Center for South Asia Studies, CASS. He was elected as standing board member of Chinese Sociality of South Asia Studies in 2010.

[--Redacted: Please do not advertise these websites--]

As far as i know, he is among the group of decision making group to India.

Chinese doctrine is written by CCP every person who would like to save his head will only speak CCP line's.
It's the Chinese who have started escalation you guy's are using heavy equipment which showed that local Commander is in no mood to solve issue with talks and second ask your commii super specialist why on earth india would try to create trouble on internationally settled border of sikkim?