India China LAC & International Border Discussions

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Sridhar_TN

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You do talk like one, don't preach your peace shit on defence forum, again can you please do it anywhere else.

Also watch other videos of how arrogant Chinese are they think they are if superior race and act like that in other countries, your Gandhian philosophy took us nowhere, and exactly because of that some country wakes up and starts claiming our land as their, by encroaching inside our borders.
I will preach it right here. What’re you going to do about it?
Being sensible is not being Gandhian. Get that through your thick head.
Oneword you learnt :’Gandhian’ and using it everywhere.
You want to talk tough, talk about tough shit that needs to be done in the border.
The chinks encroached into Indian land because we were pussy footing for so long at the border and allowed them to come in. If the governments for the past 60 years had done something about it, it wouldn’t have happened. There’s nothing Gandhian about that.

If you play as per your way, forget the amreekis, even Russia would turn its back on us. We would be a certified grade A third world shithole like Pakistan who just love harassing everybody.
 

Sridhar_TN

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Tejas mk1A is further delayed till December import lobby is pushing for emergency foreign imports instead of increasing the production of homegrown Tejas which is the best replacement for mig21 bison
Wait, my understanding was Mk1A was not due till 2 more years....
 

Chandragupt Maurya

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Tejas Has AESA Radar, Quadriplex digital fly by wire system, ultra Modern cockpit, 90% carbon composite frame which is increasing with every improvements and the capability to integrate indian European and American missiles after replacing indo Israeli ELTA 2052 with our indigenous UTTAM if we had Tejas in huge numbers neither Pakistan nor China would have dared to cross our airspace
 

ARVION

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That is old news Mark 1 a was delayed already the signing has been delayed by a year and for cost reasons while the earlier coated costs was around 400 crores fly away cost per aircraft now the cost has gone down to 300 crores per aircraft due to hal and other firms have cut down their profits to single digit to almost 6 percent to the earlier quoted profits of more than 20 percents and the final total cost had been also reduced due to reduction in spare part's and other equipments which were later deemed excess
 

Chandragupt Maurya

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The only disadvantage of Tejas is it’s American Engine which needs to be replaced by our indigenous engine as soon as possible
 

Crimemaster

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As Tanvi Madan puts it " India can align with the anti - china alliance rather than aligning with USA". To put it simply QUAD can be a start for anti china alliance, where nations aligns their china policy and keep other things to themselves.
Need to stick this out from our minds.
No one can make this country developed with just magic stick. We have a market and workforce USA will work with us for mutual benefits trumps removing GSP shows how business minded people are in real world.
Now Indo-china conflict will make sure we ban dumping goods of Chinese and develop more indigenous equipments.

Most of the poorest African countries sworn to American flag why they are not developed?
 

ARVION

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The only disadvantage of Tejas is it’s American Engine which needs to be replaced by our indigenous engine as soon as possible
Invest in tests facilities and you will have engine for sure, Inability to claw back will have devastating long-term consequences. India cannot reliably practise an independent foreign policy when it is critically dependent on foreign technology at the heart of its air force. Worse, without a handle on the engine, it will be incredibly difficult to scale up fighter aircraft indigenisation as the Kaveri engine fiasco has shown. Jet engine designs, optimised to the peculiarities of India’s specific atmospheric conditions including particulate profile, temperatures and weather, will be difficult to deploy. A lack of jet engine development prowess will continue to haunt India as truly disruptive technologies such as hypersonic flight and weapons begin making their way into production. Interestingly, although air breathing aircraft jet engines are in many ways related to other aviation and rocket engines such as ramjets and scramjets, they are still quite distinct. Mastery of the rocket engine may not guarantee mastery over the aviation jet engine. Jet engine’s longer life cycle, rotating parts, human payload, and maintenance make it significantly more challenging to design and engineer. Modern jet engines are also voracious consumers of technology pertaining to advanced materials, computational simulations, diagnostics and sensors, fuel technology, thermal management systems, and advanced manufacturing.

Many high-end technologies and techniques used in other engineering sectors are often first tested in aviation. Few people outside engineering may know that the jet engine systems share remarkable similarities to power plant gas turbines and often lead them in technology adoption. This confluence of technology, design and precision makes a jet engine design overwhelmingly complex. No wonder that nations and private firms that have any expertise tightly control its dissemination. India will be delusional to wait for a future ‘tech-transfer’ to solve this problem. The interwoven intricacies and a pervasive ‘jugaad’ culture will ensure that making a jet engine will be a particularly difficult problem to solve. Making matters worse, this sector requires intense capital expenditure, and hence, startup led disruptive leaps are nearly impossible at this stage. The daisy chain of numerous associated innovations in materials, thermodynamics and manufacturing now extend to nearly a century. These challenges, however, present a unique opportunity if taken in the right spirit. Due to the indispensable role of government, large firms and high-tech innovation, this is an ideal testing ground for unprecedented military-market-academia collaborations. Coming at the late stage does give India some advantages in absorbing the various state-of-the-art trends in this area pertaining to materials, systems and manufacturing.

India can also leverage its massive purchasing capacity to get some technological assistance in this area from the nations and firms selling their hardware. However, these will not be sufficient if Indian industrial behemoths, national laboratories and universities are unable to step up to the task. One of the easiest changes to make would be in the desultory engineering curricula. Jet engines are magnificent visual tools and engineering marvels to motivate young minds and should feature prominently in the curricula. Although a very advanced field of study, propulsion technology benefits immensely from every other area of engineering. World over, mechanical and aerospace engineering departments tend to function under the same umbrella or are very closely tied in. In India, where attracting bright students is always a challenge, this integration will be crucial and increase state capacity. Small, niche and territorial departments have failed to serve the purpose. It is already well known that students tend to avoid small stodgy departments fearing restrictions in job opportunities. Worse, this also leads a large body of engineers studying other engineering and scientific streams to ignore jet engines as extraneous. Nothing can be farther from the truth. On the side of industry, habitual ‘jugaad’ and mercantilism have to give way to grander vision of the future and genuine investment in research and intellectual property. Government policies will be critical in seeding this ecosystem.

Since this area naturally prefers large organised firms, a reflex allergic reaction of public and populist leaders towards big industrial houses will have to be managed. These are immense challenges. Indian policy-makers and educationalists should have seriously acknowledged them a long time ago. However, India has shown in the past that it has the capability to plug in critical technological gaps such as those pertaining to nuclear capabilities and satellite launch systems. Indian academia has steadily beefed up over the last decade and some Indian research groups now are competing with their counterparts in the developed world.
If the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the next best time is today.
 

sydsnyper

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We don't know. Pompeo has made some noises recently but nothing concrete. US is facing it's own troubles.

Believe me we need to find love for Japan. Japan seems a far more rational actor.

India can receive military aid from USA, Israel, Japan, Australia, France at least. But direct involvement of any of these countries is far-fetched as of now.
Correct, just to add to your point.. do not expect any help from the US. Trump is taking a beating for his management of the wuhan virus. The left in the US silently support China, and they can drown out any anti-China rhetoric coming from Trump using the BLM protests and the wuhan virus pretexts.

Moreover, Trump's ratings are taking a beating and he would not want to drag the US into any conflict if it threatens his presidency.

I do not know how much France is infested with leftists and PLA sympathizers but I know that Israel, whose hands are full with their neighbourhood, will not want to antagonize China. That leaves Australia, which is probably the only region which would want to openly support us.

We may take help from Japan, but I do not know what their political climate is and if they are in the mood of antagonizing China.

My take is to not expect any help from anyone, we have a sizeable population and should remember how Israel had to craft armaments during the 1948 arab invasion or the six day war.
 

Sridhar_TN

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Invest in tests facilities and you will have engine for sure, Inability to claw back will have devastating long-term consequences. India cannot reliably practise an independent foreign policy when it is critically dependent on foreign technology at the heart of its air force. Worse, without a handle on the engine, it will be incredibly difficult to scale up fighter aircraft indigenisation as the Kaveri engine fiasco has shown. Jet engine designs, optimised to the peculiarities of India’s specific atmospheric conditions including particulate profile, temperatures and weather, will be difficult to deploy. A lack of jet engine development prowess will continue to haunt India as truly disruptive technologies such as hypersonic flight and weapons begin making their way into production. Interestingly, although air breathing aircraft jet engines are in many ways related to other aviation and rocket engines such as ramjets and scramjets, they are still quite distinct. Mastery of the rocket engine may not guarantee mastery over the aviation jet engine. Jet engine’s longer life cycle, rotating parts, human payload, and maintenance make it significantly more challenging to design and engineer. Modern jet engines are also voracious consumers of technology pertaining to advanced materials, computational simulations, diagnostics and sensors, fuel technology, thermal management systems, and advanced manufacturing.

Many high-end technologies and techniques used in other engineering sectors are often first tested in aviation. Few people outside engineering may know that the jet engine systems share remarkable similarities to power plant gas turbines and often lead them in technology adoption. This confluence of technology, design and precision makes a jet engine design overwhelmingly complex. No wonder that nations and private firms that have any expertise tightly control its dissemination. India will be delusional to wait for a future ‘tech-transfer’ to solve this problem. The interwoven intricacies and a pervasive ‘jugaad’ culture will ensure that making a jet engine will be a particularly difficult problem to solve. Making matters worse, this sector requires intense capital expenditure, and hence, startup led disruptive leaps are nearly impossible at this stage. The daisy chain of numerous associated innovations in materials, thermodynamics and manufacturing now extend to nearly a century. These challenges, however, present a unique opportunity if taken in the right spirit. Due to the indispensable role of government, large firms and high-tech innovation, this is an ideal testing ground for unprecedented military-market-academia collaborations. Coming at the late stage does give India some advantages in absorbing the various state-of-the-art trends in this area pertaining to materials, systems and manufacturing.

India can also leverage its massive purchasing capacity to get some technological assistance in this area from the nations and firms selling their hardware. However, these will not be sufficient if Indian industrial behemoths, national laboratories and universities are unable to step up to the task. One of the easiest changes to make would be in the desultory engineering curricula. Jet engines are magnificent visual tools and engineering marvels to motivate young minds and should feature prominently in the curricula. Although a very advanced field of study, propulsion technology benefits immensely from every other area of engineering. World over, mechanical and aerospace engineering departments tend to function under the same umbrella or are very closely tied in. In India, where attracting bright students is always a challenge, this integration will be crucial and increase state capacity. Small, niche and territorial departments have failed to serve the purpose. It is already well known that students tend to avoid small stodgy departments fearing restrictions in job opportunities. Worse, this also leads a large body of engineers studying other engineering and scientific streams to ignore jet engines as extraneous. Nothing can be farther from the truth. On the side of industry, habitual ‘jugaad’ and mercantilism have to give way to grander vision of the future and genuine investment in research and intellectual property. Government policies will be critical in seeding this ecosystem.

Since this area naturally prefers large organised firms, a reflex allergic reaction of public and populist leaders towards big industrial houses will have to be managed. These are immense challenges. Indian policy-makers and educationalists should have seriously acknowledged them a long time ago. However, India has shown in the past that it has the capability to plug in critical technological gaps such as those pertaining to nuclear capabilities and satellite launch systems. Indian academia has steadily beefed up over the last decade and some Indian research groups now are competing with their counterparts in the developed world.
If the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the next best time is today.
This should be done in a privatized manner with DoD oversight. All future projects should be privatized to max extent.
 

AmitG

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Sridhar_TN

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Sridhar_TN

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garg_bharat

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The only disadvantage of Tejas is it’s American Engine which needs to be replaced by our indigenous engine as soon as possible
No need to change engine. Continue to use American engine. In fact sourcing engine from USA is better in current conditions.

Indian engine is not ready and may not be ready any time soon.
 

Chanakya 002

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India's allies pitching in with weapons, ammunition.
s Indian troops remain dug in at Ladakh in a prolonged standoff with China, allies are pitching in with commitments to deliver urgently needed weapons and ammunition for the armed forces. France has promised to deliver additional Rafale jets next month, an in-service Israeli air defence system is expected soon, precision artillery rounds will be sent by the US, and Russia will make early deliveries of ammunition and weapons worth $1 billion.

The commitments have been made after top-level bilateral talks and a key meeting in the capital at which it was decided that emergency financial powers will be given to the armed forces to prepare for a prolonged standoff in eastern Ladakh.

The first set of cutting-edge Rafale fighter jets – equipped with perhaps the world’s best long-range air-to-air missiles – is expected to reach India by July 27. As per the initial plan, four fighters were to reach the home base at Ambala next month but sources said that France has now made a commitment to send additional Rafales in the first batch. A total of eight aircraft are nearing certification but it is unclear how many additional fighters could be delivered early.


Ferried by Indian Pilots

The planes will be ferried by Indian pilots who have been trained in France and will be fully combat ready when they arrive at Ambala. Sources said that in support of early delivery, France has committed that it will deploy its aerial refuelers to ensure that the jets make it to India with just a single hop.

Key defence supplier Israel – which showed its commitment as a reliable partner during the Kargil war too – is expected to deliver a much-needed air defence system that will be deployed along the border. Sources said that the unnamed air defence system is likely to come from the current holdings of the Israeli defence forces and would supplement the Ladakh sector. This would be useful as the Chinese side is said to have deployed its newly acquired S-400 air defence system in the sector as well.

India’s largest defence supplier Russia has pledged urgent delivery of weapons, ammunition and missiles that India asked for during the recent visit to Moscow by defence minister Rajnath Singh. A detailed list has been shared by India for several dozen requirements that would cost in excess of $1 billion and a commitment has been received from Russia of delivery within weeks.

Given that most land-based systems such as tanks and armoured carriers are of Russian origin, India is looking for a variety of ammunition that will be required in the event of a larger conflict. The air force is looking for urgent supply of air-dropped bombs and missiles while the army requires anti-tank missiles and man-portable air defence systems for the border.

India’s newest strategic partner – the US – has already been helping out with vital intelligence and satellite imagery that give military planners clarity on the border situation. Sources said that the US has invited India to share a list of all requirements with a commitment to be of assistance at the earliest.

In particular, additional Excalibur artillery rounds have been ordered on an emergency basis. The precision attack rounds with a range of over 40 km are used in a variety of artillery guns in the Indian inventory, including the M 777s that are designed for mountain warfare. These rounds are known for their accuracy and damage potential and have been tried and tested by the army.
 
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