India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[AmitG]

Read above statement of Chinese mouthpiece. They came to capture Indian land and now they say that PLA is capable of defending china. I like this transformation of china from an angry dragon to wet cat showing its capability to defend. Ye dar muje Accha laga. Mogembo khush hua.

Looks like the Chinese are coming around to accepting the fact that they grossly miscalculated. The action that our men took in Galwan and the casualties inflicted have thrown their plans out of kilter. I think they are looking for a face saving exit and that face saving exit most probably will be to hold on to their positions from finger 4-8.

 

[prasadr14]

Looks like the Chinese are coming around to accepting the fact that they grossly miscalculated. The action that our men took in Galwan and the casualties inflicted have thrown their plans out of kilter. I think they are looking for a face saving exit and that face saving exit most probably will be to hold on to their positions from finger 4-8.

And there is NO REASON for us to give them any face saving exit.

They need to vacate 4-8 so that we can as well patrol it,
in effect, it must go to back to Status quo...

As such, India has no single reason to give into Chinese...
if they continue like this, their defenses in East would be affected by a great deal.

There is no way they can sustain this in Ladakh and AP and continue their hostilities in SCS, Taiwan & Japan.

 

[dude00720]

Q1 -: Did we start this or chinese did?
Q2 -: If war starts, what is the chinese target? My bet DBO airfield
Q3 -: S-400, if it is ain Aksai Chin(Hind), how can we defeat it? Hearing many theories, nothing conclusive so far?
Q4 -: How many Nepali Gurkhas are in the army?

Let us not hyperventilate. We need clear answers to these questions.

My humble request -: Dont start blaming babus, armed forces etc. We need answers which are calm and well-reasoned. Let us make this forum useful. Assume, you're a Vietnam. China can still be defeated. IN Mountain warfare we are the best in the world.

I think we lack in Military mid-level leadership. Too many times we have been surprised by the chinese.

 

[garg_bharat]

Entry of US in the region is only going to happen if the Chinese bring the pakis in.

Good to see some sensible users back in the thread...

We don't know. Pompeo has made some noises recently but nothing concrete. US is facing it's own troubles.

Believe me we need to find love for Japan. Japan seems a far more rational actor.

India can receive military aid from USA, Israel, Japan, Australia, France at least. But direct involvement of any of these countries is far-fetched as of now.

 

[garg_bharat]

Q1 -: Did we start this or chinese did?
Q2 -: If war starts, what is the chinese target? My bet DBO airfield
Q3 -: S-400, if it is ain Aksai Chin(Hind), how can we defeat it? Hearing many theories, nothing conclusive so far?
Q4 -: How many Nepali Gurkhas are in the army?

Let us not hyperventilate. We need clear answers to these questions.

My humble request -: Dont start blaming babus, armed forces etc. We need answers which are calm and well-reasoned. Let us make this forum useful. Assume, you're a Vietnam. China can still be defeated. IN Mountain warfare we are the best in the world.

I think we lack in Military mid-level leadership. Too many times we have been surprised by the chinese.

A1. Definitely Chinese are engaged in a heavy buildup and India is responding. People are guessing (in India) that Chinese buildup is either due to road building by India or due to Ladakh's status change. Both reasons have been refuted by international observers. Likely reason is simply to capture territory currently in India's control.

A2. DBO is just a dirt strip. It has very little value. Who knows what is on Chinese mind but I bet whole of Kashmir and Ladakh is at risk.

A3. S400. Only eminent scientists working on radars and missiles can find a way out. Every weapon has a counter.

A4. Could be up to 25k. Again I would not worry about them. Nepali are very honest and loyal.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Looks like the Chinese are coming around to accepting the fact that they grossly miscalculated. The action that our men took in Galwan and the casualties inflicted have thrown their plans out of kilter. I think they are looking for a face saving exit and that face saving exit most probably will be to hold on to their positions from finger 4-8.

Ofcourse, they are looking for face saving by pouring money into media. Evenif status Quo is restored, china has to loose a lot in terms of trade, reputation, unity of anti china forces , india aligning with anti china forces and giving them platform in Indian ocean and south China sea.

 

[Roshan]

Read above statement of Chinese mouthpiece. They came to capture Indian land and now they say that PLA is capable of defending china. I like this transformation of china from an angry dragon to wet cat showing its capability to defend. Ye dar muje Accha laga. Mogembo khush hua.

indeed, i'm beginning to believe what abhijit iyer-mitra says. the rhetoric from the chinese side doesn't seem to be one of triumph at having achieved their objectives. it is possible the retaliation will come from them instead of us as a result.

 

[destructodisc]

below is an excerpt on PARA SF from the wikipidea ( the numbers were much bigger before the post got edited)

The unit first saw action in the 1971 Indo-Pakistani war, the first six-man assault team was inserted 240 kilometres (150 miles) deep into Indus and Charchao, where they carried out raids. The assault team killed 73 and wounded 140 on the Pakistani side. In addition, they also destroyed 35mm artillery guns of the Pakistan independent battery. They also destroyed an airfield. In Bangladesh 2 PARA (Airborne), which was a part of 50 (Independent) Parachute Brigade, carried out India's first airborne assault operation to capture Poongli Bridge in Mymensingh District near Dhaka. Subsequently, they were the first unit to enter Dhaka. For this action 2 PARA were given the Battle Honour of Poongli Bridge and the Theater Honour Dhaka.[9]. In the Western Sector the unit was also involved in the Battle of Chamb[10].


I think as far as S400s are concerned, PARA SF are our best bet. In my opinion this is the most efficient and effective way as well. I think they can do a HAHO jump and land near the batteries and do what they do. What I don't know due to lack of knowledge is how will they get extracted in a war situation when Chinese are alert

 

[garg_bharat]

India needs to focus VERY hard on its defence industries. A lot of solutions will come internally.

 

[Bhadra]

To claer some misconceptions -Should read this

India China border face-off: Talks will continue but military pushback also on Delhi’s table

India China border face-off: Talks will continue but military pushback also on Delhi’s table

In fact, the specific words, “clash” and “fight” (takrav, ladai) have cropped up in discussions in the top leadership on the ongoing standoff with Chinese forces along the Line of Actual Control in Ladakh, highly placed sources told The Indian Express.

indianexpress.com

​

In fact, the specific words, “clash” and “fight” (takrav, ladai) have cropped up in discussions in the top leadership on the ongoing standoff with Chinese forces along the Line of Actual Control in Ladakh, highly placed sources told The Indian Express.

****************

here is a growing consensus in the highest echelons of the government that while talks with China will – and should – continue, the country should be ready and prepared for a “military response” as and when it’s needed.

In fact, the specific words, “clash” and “fight” (takrav, ladai) have cropped up in discussions in the top leadership on the ongoing standoff with Chinese forces along the Line of Actual Control in Ladakh, highly placed sources told The Indian Express.

“We do not want an escalation but we will not compromise by yielding to China,” said a top official who is closely involved in these discussions. “We are not going to step back, we will take them on.”

Asked if the Government had worked out the implications of a military conflict given the number of variables and unknowns that this could entail, he said: “The view in the Government is that if you start thinking of consequences, you will not be able to move forward.”

One key reason behind this resolve, the official said, is that the Chinese response after the killing of 20 Indian soldiers has not inspired any confidence that Beijing is looking at lowering the temperature. In fact, there is deep disquiet over the shrillness of its rhetoric.

“They killed our soldiers and while we don’t expect any word of condolence or remorse, telling India to hold its soldiers accountable and underlining that the onus to find a way out is not China’s are clear signs of their intention,” said the official.

“They are not acting even on what they are saying they will,” said the source about assurances made during military talks. “Their only response so far has been that India is at fault, that India is to blame for the build-up.”

Sources said that it was as early as end of April, that the first reports about the Chinese build-up reached Delhi. Promptly, instructions went out to enhance patrolling and recce missions. “This was subsequently revised to match the build-up as a response to the gradual amassing of troops by the Chinese side. We shared this with the all-party meeting on June 19,” said the official.

 

[dude00720]

A1. Definitely Chinese are engaged in a heavy buildup and India is responding. People are guessing (in India) that Chinese buildup is either due to road building by India or due to Ladakh's status change. Both reasons have been refuted by international observers. Likely reason is simply to capture territory currently in India's control.

A2. DBO is just a dirt strip. It has very little value. Who knows what is on Chinese mind but I bet whole of Kashmir and Ladakh is at risk.

A3. S400. Only eminent scientists working on radars and missiles can find a way out. Every weapon has a counter.

A4. Could be up to 25k. Again I would not worry about them. Nepali are very honest and loyal.

Thanks for the answers, Have you been in the armed forces?

 

[Bhadra]

To claer some misconceptions -Should read this

India China border face-off: Talks will continue but military pushback also on Delhi’s table

The MEA, too, has been categorical in stressing that it was the Chinese which started the build-up in violation of the mutual understanding between both sides.

Asked about the meaning of the Prime Minister’s “no-intruder” remark, the official avoided a direct response. “That statement should be read with all official statements that preceded it and that followed it,” he said. Officials said that despite questions being raised over the PM’s remarks, there has been no dialling down of India’s stand on any of the issues involved.

On the economic aspect of the bilateral relationship given the ubiquitous role of China in supply chains which could make de-coupling a challenge, another top official who has been advising the Government on trade matters, said: “It is not easy to switch on and switch off. But the India growth story cannot be predicated on a relationship with China that is plagued by deep trust deficit. There is a strong national mood against it.” At the same time, he said, any reflexive action that hurts India’s economic interests should be avoided.

That’s why, the official said, India has no option but to step up its diplomatic and military pressure.

“Nobody wins a war these days and India in 2020 isn’t India in 1962. It has much stronger global alliances and we will need to leverage that. In line with its behaviour in the entire region, China wants to create fear and establish itself as a superpower,” said the official. “They need to understand that there will be a determined pushback.

 

[garg_bharat]

below is an excerpt on PARA SF from the wikipidea ( the numbers were much bigger before the post got edited)

The unit first saw action in the 1971 Indo-Pakistani war, the first six-man assault team was inserted 240 kilometres (150 miles) deep into Indus and Charchao, where they carried out raids. The assault team killed 73 and wounded 140 on the Pakistani side. In addition, they also destroyed 35mm artillery guns of the Pakistan independent battery. They also destroyed an airfield. In Bangladesh 2 PARA (Airborne), which was a part of 50 (Independent) Parachute Brigade, carried out India's first airborne assault operation to capture Poongli Bridge in Mymensingh District near Dhaka. Subsequently, they were the first unit to enter Dhaka. For this action 2 PARA were given the Battle Honour of Poongli Bridge and the Theater Honour Dhaka.[9]. In the Western Sector the unit was also involved in the Battle of Chamb[10].


I think as far as S400s are concerned, PARA SF are our best bet. In my opinion this is the most efficient and effective way as well. I think they can do a HAHO jump and land near the batteries and do what they do. What I don't know due to lack of knowledge is how will they get extracted in a war situation when Chinese are alert

Yes suicide missions are likely. This is the problem with this war of giants. The losses could be very high.
And those losses will have to be replaced quickly. So a war needs deep planning.

 

[airtel]

how can they put democratic and north korea in the same sentence. no wonder i didn't understand when you mentioned DPRK

Don't worry USA will give them democracy .

 

[garg_bharat]

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

Keep an eye on Israel. The third world war will DEFINITELY start from middle east. India is a side show.

Keep in mind that China is in alliance with Iran. And Israel has a deep alliance with USA.

The alliance picture makes things clearer.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

This guy

 

[Bahrtiya]

Amidst all this stuff, it should be noted that if you or anyone you know have neighbors of Chinese origin or friends of Chinese origin, or if you see someone trying to Harass people of Chinese origin in India, stand up for them.
Don’t let this issue cloud your sense of courtesy and hatred towards innocent civilians. I would hate to see some chutiya harassing innocent people who have nothing to do with the standoff.
Indians in China are treated with a lot of respect and I’m hearing stories of their neighbors ensuring their safety. It’s only fair that we Do the same.
So please go out of your way to ensure that they don’t feel threatened. There is an image of fairness and just that India should hold in the international forum.

I saw a video where a Chinese engineer is beating an Indian, so no! I would show courtesy with my knuckles, and go take your pussy footing non violence somewhere else, because of people like you World considers us as weak.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

I saw a video where a Chinese engineer is beating an Indian, so no! I would show courtesy with my knuckles, and go take your pussy footing non violence somewhere else, because of people like you World considers us as weak.

That’s a Pakistani who was getting beaten up.
Now shut the fuck up trying to act all tough. Pussy footing it seems. There’s a difference in being a low life madar chod and being strong.
Yeah, if you’re harassing innocent civilians that makes no difference between us and a country like Pakistan or Iraq or Iran. I for one would like to belong in a country that is not made up of rag tag mob lynchers. Chutiyas who incite such stupid immature violence should be tapped in the knuckles first.
If you have familywith a military background you would know that the first order of action you take is differntiate a civilian and a combatant. If you don’t know to do that, you’re just a goon.
You only resort to such violence if you yourself are being attacked in such a manner.

Look, I get that you’re pissed off because you thought that was an Indian. Believe me if it was, I would too. But as per my observations and all of my conversations with guys who are in China, Indians are treated waaaay better. The reason that the chinks are aggressive towards the pakis is because they have an inherent animosity towards Muslims. Literally all of them. They also do not consider the pakis on their level. To them the Pakis are third grade. Real talk.

 

[Bhadra]

So What is the crux of India's response as given in the above article -

* No pussyfooting the Chinese . no appeasement, no weakness.
* Resolute in military posture / action while continuing diplomatic talks.
* No adventurism on Economic front in a manner that harms India.
* Be prepared for "Takaraw", "Takkar" or "Clash" to restore the status quo.
* Continued military preparedness and infrastucture development near the LAC.

What is different this time - Use military as an instrument of Diplomacy towards stabilization of LAC which was shunned by mandarins so far. LAC can no longer to be subjected to funny Chinese perceptions which the Chinese would change at the slightest pretext.

What are the dangers Involved. The "Existing LAC" should not be allowed to be construed to the boundary between India and China. If China is rattled by Amit Shah's pronouncements that Aksaichin belongs to India. they should remain rattled and worried on that account. Being defensive on that amounts to endorsing 1962 Chinese military aggression and illegal occupation of Indian Territory.

 

[destructodisc]

Don't worry USA will give them democracy .

see ... the seeds in the picture aren't even "smart" but with the right dosage they work like magic. Wonders of Power !