India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[ARVION]

We are Talking Role Based Aircraft here Bro
For Example F-16 C has Interceptor & air superiority role.And F-16D has Deep strike And SEAD/bombing Roles

And I am talking about their entire Combat capable aircraft's

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

Just watching India upfront on Times Now..

The panel consisting of Gen Mehta, Gokhale, Mitra Iyer, Col. Dinny and few more discussing on the situation at Indo-china border.
Almost all of them have different perceptions on whether the chinese have intruded or not!

Bc kaisa undemarcated hai ye LAC.

 

[IndianHawk]

We are Talking Role Based Aircraft here Bro
For Example F-16 C has Interceptor & air superiority role.And F-16D has Deep strike And SEAD/bombing Roles

All we need to do on porky front is destroy their air superiority fighters fast. Once we do that we can use a minimum fleet to keep destroying their strike aircrafts slowly as we will have complete superiority over paki airspace. Also we can then keep bombing porkies using only few jags lca mk1 and even Hawks ( 100+ we have) as there will be nothing to oppose us in paki skies.

Anyway our strikes on their air bases will destroy most of their fleet on ground itself.

Also navy mig29 k will take part in battle on porky front.

 

[garg_bharat]

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

This is the counter argument. This argument is that India should accepts BRI of China and work within SCO and BRICS to settle disputes. The author Pepe Escobar holds communist (anti-Imperialistic as he says) views.

My issue with Pepe Escobar is that China is very hard to understand. Chinese carry a deep grudge against India which is washing away mutual relationship. This distrust is the reason for India refusing BRI. Although India understands the need and utility of roads and connectivity but is not convinced BRI helps in any way.

Most trade is sea-borne. Shipping by road is more expensive than shipping by sea; despite longer distances. Situation could change in future; a future that we do not know about yet.

Well I am not Brahmin and/or upper class. And I have zero trust in Xi ruled China.

Hope other posters here can prove me wrong.

 

[A chauhan]

Tejas is a point defence fighter. It cannot do the job of a Mirage.

Yeah, but Tejas is a multi-role fighter, can be programmed for any role.

 

[Suryavanshi]

They have 135 JF 17s 73 F 16s Mirages 83 J 7 Gs 87 so they have around 378 Combat Aircrafts

JF 17 block 1 is no good, JF 17 block 2 can put up a fight.
Out of the 73 F 16 only half are fully operational for combat role rest are sitting ducks
The lack of parts is crumbling their fleet, they are trying to salvage parts from Turkey.

Their Mirage are tailor made for bombing roles so our AD can welcome them.

J7 are even worse than our Mig 21 bisons they are only good for bombing Poor baluch and Afghans.



Where we lack is AWACS, BVRM, EW.

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

If we are talking about strikes those 80-100 mki alone can drop as much as payload on Pakistan as their total 180 strike aircraft can .

Unke f16 aur HQ 9 to bas show case mein rehenge.

 

[captscooby81]

Exactly pakis time and again proven that they are not afraid to put a fight and throw some surprise towards us . Yes we haven't really testing them apart from Feb26/27 but i think that moment will come sooner or later for both of us . We Should not be happy with our pilot skills and think we can beat them there is a limitators for both man and machine how ever good one pilot is he cant take 10-20 aircrafts alone . We need to up the ante with strong air defence and preemptive strike . In a 2 front war taking PAF first would be the sensible choice as PLAAF will be fighting us for long time with their huge inventory . We cant expect to handle PLAAF and come back for PAF .Hit them and strike them hard and make sure 40 % of their jets are out of usage we can handle rest of PAF for week time easily .

We Are Grossly under Estimating Porkies They Are No Joke
They Proved It in every war



There Stupid Raid Into Indian Air Space on 27 February Proved that


They have 90 + Mirage 5F ROSE IIIProject ROSE (Retrofit Of Strike Element + Plus 60 + JF-17 for Strike Role + 31 F-16 D for Strike

Around 180 + Strike Role Aircraft's They have 11 AEW's For Support

IAF Has 20 Mirage+ 45 Jaguars + 80-100 MKI + 30 Mig-29 UPG

175-190+ Fighters For Strike Role Numbers For Western Front (Numbers Are Excluded For Deployment on Eastern Front Against PLAF) Only 2 AWACS fro Air Support


Numbers Can very Based on Opinions or strategies but that Is what we have currently on western front Against Pakistan

 

[ARVION]

JF 17 block 1 is no good, JF 17 block 2 can put up a fight.
Out of the 73 F 16 only half are fully operational for combat role rest are sitting ducks
The lack of parts is crumbling their fleet, they are trying to salvage parts from Turkey.

Their Mirage are tailor made for bombing roles so our AD can welcome them.

J7 are even worse than our Mig 21 bisons they are only good for bombing Poor baluch and Afghans.



Where we lack is AWACS, BVRM, EW.

And the Turkey are trying to secure the parts for their their F 16s are they in a position to salvage the PAFs F 16's

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

No in a few years

We are facing a war in weeks.

 

[cereal killer]

We Are Grossly under Estimating Porkies They Are No Joke
They Proved It in every war



There Stupid Raid Into Indian Air Space on 27 February Proved that


They have 90 + Mirage 5F ROSE IIIProject ROSE (Retrofit Of Strike Element + Plus 60 + JF-17 for Strike Role + 31 F-16 D for Strike

Around 180 + Strike Role Aircraft's They have 11 AEW's For Support

IAF Has 20 Mirage+ 45 Jaguars + 80-100 MKI + 30 Mig-29 UPG

175-190+ Fighters For Strike Role Numbers For Western Front (Numbers Are Excluded For Deployment on Eastern Front Against PLAF) Only 2 AWACS fro Air Support


Numbers Can very Based on Opinions or strategies but that Is what we have currently on western front Against Pakistan

Pakis are indeed a formidable force considering their size & economy. A strong Paki economy would've been worst nightmare for India. But they can't sustain a conflict for more than 3 days in current scenario & I am being generous. Previous wars we fought with them they had a unending foreign aid which is not the case now. We managed to beat/Stalemate a strong Paki force in 1965 whose economy was better than us. They are a nuisance that's for sure. What they lack is credible offensive capability. Their Navy is already at their weakest point & Karachi is more or less undefended against our full pronged Naval attack. Their ground forces are in good numbers on Kashmir front but that's about it.

 

[ARVION]

We are facing a war in weeks.

But we should seriously try to get as many as Mig 29s or 2000 's We could if I remember we had a offer from RMAF for their MIG 29s

 

[IndianHawk]

Meanwhile.

Reuters | Breaking International News & Views

Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage.

in.reuters.com

Porky forex is under 10 billion now. Entire imf program has failed . Back to begging .

 

[Suryavanshi]

I still believe that 27 Feb 2019 was a missed opportunity.
We only have 40 odd F 16 as a threat rest all paki Planes are inferior.
If we had taken out their F 16 that day we wouldn't have to worry about it today.

 

[asingha94]

Next What? Blaming NRC, demonetisation, NRC? JNU ding dongs.

 

[Sanglamorre]

We are facing a war in weeks.

No, we aren't.

Look at the confusion in govt. That's not a govt ready for war, that's a govt ready to capitulate and declare it as 4D chess masterstroke victory.

 

[WARREN SS]

Yeah, but Tejas is a multi-role fighter, can be programmed for any role.

If Those 20 IOC-2 LCA can be armed With Derby ER or MICA RF
then We Might Use the for CAS And CAP role's along With Mig-29 UPG

 

[IndianHawk]

I still believe that 27 Feb 2019 was a missed opportunity.
We only have 40 odd F 16 as a threat rest all paki Planes are inferior.
If we had taken out their F 16 that day we wouldn't have to worry about it today.

I we won't face two front like challenge we will keep sleeping forever. Even the two fronts are not looking dangerous enough to wake us up. We are still quite reassured and relaxed.

We need a massive war to rise up to our potential.

 

[Mikesingh]

Hi guys.

I've been a lurker for a very long time. just registered here to share some thoughts. this is my first post.

firstly, was there any intelligence failure? - do we believe our army, defence, intelligence guys? was/is there any post of ours at those spots? do we have sats? - we should get the answer.
we the common men don't know something doesn't mean defence staffs and higher officials also don't know that.

after this fiasco, I was watching a press conference of probably of MEA, where he said, like "it's a long drawn process and we may see many changes including changes on the border including line of actual control." it may be in our advantage also.

do our govt has the guts to answer them or they prefer to remain silent? - incidents in recent past showed it prefers to answer. but according to our place of choice and time.

are we even trying to answer? - political and diplomatic developments are hinting that. for ex Mr Pompeo's statement or demand in WHA to find the source of Wuhan virus.
it might include military response also. but military response is not something like which we should start according to the wish of our enemy. there is no hurry. no harm in letting those spoilt kids worn out a bit.

as we all know, I'm not stressing on the points of motivation, quality and professionalism of their army and ours. we have also seen a glimpse of these in Galwan valley clash.

Indian Army is the king of mountain warfare and I don't think anybody will contradict that.
there are numerous ways to be safe from arty and mbrl shelling (in the mountainous terrains) but a valley like Galwan one is not an efficient choice among those.

as PLA has positioned themselves, if any conflict starts, they should be decimated and anybody even without any military background can understand that.

will US directly protect us in this episode? - nobody should do. and I think we are more than able to meet this challenge.

do we need shiny gizmos to fight this war? - SU 30 MKI is the best pre 5th gen air superiority fighter anybody has. it can easily dodge AIM120C salvo. and we all know actual quality of Chinese gizmos. so it should dodge Chinese missiles also. it's also detecting J20 for a long time.
but we need some ammunitions. if it becomes a long standing, then we'll also need planes but those which we operate. we might see some recently retired ones (if any dire need arises). but I'm not rulling out F16s. MKIs and F16s will be a deadly combo.

another thing I'd like to point out, a mainstream actress and her look alike doing any b grade film, is not same or similar (quality wise).
building roads, dams, tunnels are different than building super sophisticated military weapons.
though I'm not in a mood to underestimate them, but if they were so efficient, then they would not go for building look alikes rather they would start building something superb.
whenever they tried something on their own, we got JF17 and I'm not qualified enough to judge the quality of that.

nobody sane enough will dream about teach India a lesson with 1.5/2 lakh troops. (ott, US attacked Iraq with 3 lakh+ troops).
It was just for showing of power but that escalated due to Galwan valley incident. now they are trying badly to save their face but that's not easy either. so there may be a war and China isn't prepared for that (just like us).

will we see a 2 front war? - though unlikely but that may happen. but will USA allow that to happen?
this is not any border conflict between India and China. it's a show of power. right now it's also a challenge to US. it's to show other allies that see US can't protect you. so come with us.

now our defence forces have authorization to act as they deem fit. have a faith on those people. they are well educated, well informed and among the best brains of our country. so what they will do, will definitely be good for our country.

please pardon me if I've written something wrong. I'm not a defence expert.

I suggest you read my post #19427 on this thread which may answer some of your questions.

As regards your question about Mr Pompeo's statement that it might include military response, I'm not sure what you are getting at. If you mean will the US help us? Sure they will and already are. But this doesn't mean boots on the ground. Obviously only diplomatic pressure on the CCP. However, the indirect advantage is that with so many fronts, from the littoral states of the SCS to Taiwan and Hong Kong, and the USN show of force in the SCS with 3 Carrier Strike Groups, the CPC will perforce have to thin out their overstretched forces on order to cover all fronts especially their rocket forces and the PLAAF.

As regards your question whether it was an intel failure on our part for not knowing about the PLA build-up at the LAC, I would say both yes and no. We were aware that the PLA was conducting their usual annual exercises on the Tibetan Plateau with about 5000 troops. But we failed to appreciate that it could be part of a deception plan when they suddenly diverted these troops to the LAC. By the time we reacted precious time was lost which resulted in the Galwan clash and the PLA beefing up Finger 4 area at Pangong Tso.

However, we have more than a mirror deployment now with all troops well acclimatised and ready to go! Missile batteries and the air force are at the ready with regular CAPs and fighters on ORPs. A two front war is most unlikely. Pak is not prepared and its economy is down in the dumps. And there are no battle indicators to suggest so. Further, as per the US-Pak End User Agreement, Pak will not be allowed to use their F-16s against India reducing their combat capability greatly.

But it's time we threaten the Chinese that Aksai Chin is our objective and not just the defence of Depsang and Hot Springs etc. We need to start psy warfare too like the Chinese are doing.

 

[IndianHawk]

If Those 20 IOC-2 LCA can be aimed With Derby ER or MICA RF
then We Might Use the for CAD And CAP role's along With Mig-29 UPG

They are being armed with Astra which means they will outrange paki f16s.