India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[IndiaRising]

60 existing MiG-29s likely to get upgraded sensors and EW systems along with integration of newer BVR missiles like Astra.

AESA radar?

 

[IndiaRising]

I meant the current scenario we are in we should have ordered Astra in 100's.

200 for IAF, 48 for IN

 

[ezsasa]

what's the significance?

with SDR, a range of data can be sent on the comms. for ex: video can be sent from forward teams along with voice without depending on satellites.

 

[Sanglamorre]

Because that is important. Otherwise you won't understand why they constructed permanent and semi permanent structure at F6 and F4. But then your prerogative.

BTW their claim can extend upto Kerala due to presence of Chinese fishing nets.

Tactical advantage, future staging points, exhibiting that they had definite control over these areas in future negotiations. They have kept it till F4 because of the narrow access issue that hampers us from F3

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

60 existing MiG-29s likely to get upgraded sensors and EW systems along with integration of newer BVR missiles like Astra.

So EW suite and sensors were not upgraded last time?

 

[ladder]

Tactical advantage, future staging points, exhibiting that they had definite control over these areas in future negotiations. They have kept it till F4 because of the narrow access issue that hampers us from F3

Correct but that's not what I was asking.
The contention that F4 was their claim line was made by Indians who have 'seen' their maps during border meetings (MEA guys), as maps were not exchanged or delineated on ground.
But their claim is upto F2 ( changed from F4 to F2), so that makes our camp at F3 and admin camp at West of F4 a construction in the overlapping zone. Thus they say they too now have right to encroach and constuct in F2 to F8.

That's why in the current discussion, they want us to move back to F2.

It is the physical barrier that prevented them being at our doors in F3 in full force and us from being at theirs in F6.

 

[BeEverVectorMan]

That is no excuse, that is a lapse from our part. We should have destroyed the road/captured F4. But Vajpayee govt. was high on Ahimsa.
Even after that, roads mean nothing unless they are defending the territory. We patrolled upon their metal roads. But now we cannot, because they positioned troops there,

Vajpayee blunders are so foolish simply by the fact that we would not cross the border as it's a game show going on, bloody war was happening,
We literally killed many soldiers due to foolish planning be it kargil be it during 2002 parliament attack
Sometimes I wonder all the politician just want lavish life and freedom at the cost of taxpayers money and the soldier bordering our land
Not a ounce of thought goes to them that lets hunt best brains of India and get the best out of them be it in all field and become so strong that world take our help

 

[Varun2002]

This is what Taiwan claims, even crazier than their ccp counterpart.

View attachment 51768

Assuming China ever becomes genuinely democratic, and Taiwan has great influence on it, it is probable that revanchist, irrational, unrealistic claims will be kept down. And they will be very wary of taking any action against another democracy, or threatening to, that too an Asian democracy. Things will be more open, transparent and civilised. It's nice to think, anyway.

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

Is there confirmation of Astra's range? Is it comparable to Amraam c5 under identical circumstances?

 

[garg_bharat]

I found out after searching and searching that it's a Gyrocopter's called Hunting eagle and it's need to take off and lande like a STVOL aircraft and would be used by special forces and capable of high altitude take off and landing look likes specially made to operate in the Western Theatre Command's, look like it could bes used in tibet by the chini Sf's don knew if it is capable of operating at that altitude and enviroment's

It cannot operate in Ladakh.

 

[Sanglamorre]

Correct but that's not what I was asking.
The contention that F4 was their claim line was made by Indians who have 'seen' their maps during border meetings (MEA guys), as maps were not exchanged or delineated on ground.
But their claim is upto F2 ( changed from F4 to F2), so that makes our camp at F3 and admin camp at West of F4 a construction in the overlapping zone. Thus they say they too now have right to encroach and constuct in F2 to F8.

That's why in the current discussion, they want us to move back to F2.

It is the physical barrier that prevented them being at our doors in F3 in full force and us from being at theirs in F6.

Oh.

But I never understood how MEA thought F4 was their claim line if no maps were exchanged? Unless that official recognition happened, even if they saw all the state secrets of China, they can't claim anything for sure.

It's like a black comedy, estate comedy, comedy of errors all rolled into one at this point.

I understand the issue at F3, but what I don't understand is why not dynamite. It's a difficult terrain, but it is is what we have to deal with. This barrier theory can't be an actual reason to drop our claims and not enforce them beyond F4.

 

[WARREN SS]

I have To Clear Some Misconception Here About things on ground

1. We Don't had Any Structure At F4 Pre April Are Post was on F3 ITBP & IA
2. Chinese Built Road And Camps at F4 in 1999 to 2004 Did More construction 2008
3. LAC agreement Itself Don't Define LAC but Let The Parties have there Own Claims
4. We Claim Entire F1 to F8 CCP claims upto Finger 2

Maps

CCP Claim lines on lac

 

[prasadr14]

It cannot operate in Ladakh.

Also, it would take 100 of them to ferry 200 Chinkies across..

 

[WARREN SS]

Yes, now they have a clear view of our side of Pangong Tso lake, they can observe our troop movements, our patrol pattern in Pangong Tso, also keep an eye upon our dock/jetty.
In wartime, they can direct accurate artillery fire on our side of Pangong Tso lake.

Col S Dinny Rejected any kind of advantage

 

[Sanglamorre]

It cannot operate in Ladakh.

Yeah, that was what I was thinking. The hell will those tiny engines have enough liftoff in Ladakh. Or were they planning to push them out a plane?

 

[ARVION]

Also, it would take 100 of them to ferry 200 Chinkies across..

 

[Kumata]

Mig 29s were upgraded to upg standard. Now what new upgrade?

We will have more planes and sensors to be mothballed in storage.... LOL

 

[kaaleshwaar]

View attachment 51783

Have some of our autowallas drive these, they will manage to fit 8 passengers in it

 

[ladder]

Oh.

But I never understood how MEA thought F4 was their claim line if no maps were exchanged? Unless that official recognition happened, even if they saw all the state secrets of China, they can't claim anything for sure.

It's like a black comedy, estate comedy, comedy of errors all rolled into one at this point.

I understand the issue at F3, but what I don't understand is why not dynamite. It's a difficult terrain, but it is is what we have to deal with. This barrier theory can't be an actual reason to drop our claims and not enforce them beyond F4.

Not quite, as boundaries are based on prominent physical features. At F4 the east west orientation of lake changes to North south axis. So having 'seen' their maps, we were not in fault in claiming their claim ended at F4.

Dynamite? No, we have signed no blasting and no biodegradation aggrement.

So, we are not forgoing our claim. We are currently unable to physically enforce it. We can in future, either by negotiation or by force.

 

[Kumata]

View attachment 51783

Chinese are surely master of propoganda and info warfare ... these will make for good turkey shot in real war