India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[Bhadra]

In a way, it's good the Chinese are so dependent on comfort and amenities. When it comes to an actual conflict their people will have a very tough time taking on hardened Indian troops - especially from local communities that have always lived in these terrains & conditions.

absolutely wrong and false ideas ... you just forget how Hanumantha struggled there for eleven days ... he was from down South and Madras Regiment. All community soldiers need to fight there... Indian Army does not conduct operations on the territorial population concept.
Such drawing room ideas lead the MoD babus to deny basic facilities to our troops and they consider those facilities as luxuries under mistaken ideas..

One is very welcome to comment and write of Defense affairs but it is common knowledge that no one lives in those areas where our troops are deployed. Borders are sometimes a hundred km from habitation...

How far is Lipulekh, Niti, Mana or Nelang from the last villages?
Who lives in Trig Height or Track Junction Area or the Karakoram?
Who lives near Asaphila?
Who is living in those salty Run of Kuchh?
Forget Siachin and many sectors of Kargil.
Forget about North Sikkim....
I can list a hundred others....

 

[Suryavanshi]

Same arguments is used in Siachen for lack of infrastructure.
40 Years after we established control In siachen we haven't built a single structure that can act as a temporary relief for soldiers.
The argument is that the terrain is inhospitable, avalanches are frequent.

I mean we can send rockets in outer space but can't build a structure to house soldier's on earth, how fair is that. It's hard to believe that there isn't a single spot in the entirety of 700 sq km area where a bunker or a base can be built.
All excuses.

 

[Lancer]

absolutely wrong and false ideas ... you just forget how Hanumantha struggled there for eleven days ... he was from down South and Madras Regiment. All community soldiers need to fight there... Indian Army does not conduct operations on the territorial population concept.
Such drawing room ideas lead the MoD babus to deny basic facilities to our troops and they consider those facilities as luxuries under mistaken ideas..

One is very welcome to comment and write of Defense affairs but it is common knowledge that no one lives in those areas where our troops are deployed. Borders are sometimes a hundred km from habitation...

How far is Lipulekh, Niti, Mana or Nelang from the last villages?
Who lives in Trig Height or Track Junction Area or the Karakoram?
Who lives near Asaphila?
Who is living in those salty Run of Kuchh?
Forget Siachin and many sectors of Kargil.
Forget about North Sikkim....
I can list a hundred others....

Jeez man, you're always just waiting for a chance to go on a rant aren't you? Re-read the comment if you didn't understand it the first time around.

Once you find the part where I said Indian soldiers shouldn't get any facilities, or when you find the part where I said soldiers from other parts of India are never posted to the LAC - feel free to highlight it.

 

[Alfalfa]

absolutely wrong and false ideas ... you just forget how Hanumantha struggled there for eleven days ... he was from down South and Madras Regiment. All community soldiers need to fight there... Indian Army does not conduct operations on the territorial population concept.
Such drawing room ideas lead the MoD babus to deny basic facilities to our troops and they consider those facilities as luxuries under mistaken ideas..

One is very welcome to comment and write of Defense affairs but it is common knowledge that no one lives in those areas where our troops are deployed. Borders are sometimes a hundred km from habitation...

How far is Lipulekh, Niti, Mana or Nelang from the last villages?
Who lives in Trig Height or Track Junction Area or the Karakoram?
Who lives near Asaphila?
Who is living in those salty Run of Kuchh?
Forget Siachin and many sectors of Kargil.
Forget about North Sikkim....
I can list a hundred others....

and he was the only one who was from the South Indian states, all rest 17 KIA were from the traditional army recruiting grounds in UP, Bihar, Punjab, Haryana, Raj and Uttarakhand..

 

[Bhadra]

The Pakistani generals have gone crying to their Chinese daddy because they cannot face the pressure exerted by us at the LOC. This is not the first time it has happened. Professionals would back up the facts, I am sure. The Pakis want the Chinese to relieve the pressure on them by asking the Chinese to create uncertainty on the Indo - China border.

That is for sure.

This is a predictable behaviour but anyhow we would be forced to scale up our defences on the Chinese border.
Small possibility of a joint collusive strategy by these brothers in arms. I do not think that China wants war with us especially after the Corona Virus pandemic which has sullied their reputation and made Chinese everywhere feel unwelcome.
Any offensive action on us would only alarm the countries in Asia and add to their distrust of China.

These could be the wrong premises. China attacked India in 1962 when it was almost facing a famine and hunger situation and there was internal strife inside the Party. Mao wanted to exhibit his military nationalistic powers. It was also a time when the world especially US and USSR were engaged in Cuban missile crisis and both could not have intervened to save India. The Chinese have the capability and intentions. They are the most treacherous and untrustworthy nation.

What are their objectives in raising tensions on the border?. Is it only to come to the rescue of Pakis and hence objectives are limited.
Anyway proves once again the Chinese are the real masters of the game being played by Pakistan in Kashmir.

Wars always have political aims. In this difficult Corona Times China is very fragile and unsettled. India is emerging as a competitor. So military instruments could be used to many end besides being directed towards saving Pakistan.

In light of the developments I suggest that the Indian Army maintain a numerical superiority over the Chinese army. A ratio of 2:1 is advisable. We cannot presently match the Chinese numbers in terms of equipment as their economy is much larger. They may also be slightly ahead of us in terms of technology.

Mountains consume men and any defensive or offensive action needs adequate manpower. This is not the time to downsize our army. I suggest an increase in numbers at least on the China border to achieve 2:1 ratio. Later on when we have technological superiority over the Chinese the manpower numbers can be reduced. I know many people will disagree with me.

Not possible considering two and a half front war. We can not even achieve parity. Achieving 2:1 strength on Northern and Eastern borders is only possible if 700 battalions of CAPF is militarised. In the present form they are useless and would rather be a burden. But Indian bureaucracy would not allow that to happen for their narrow self-interests..

Faster economic growth and scientific progress are an absolute necessity to catch up with China.

Economic and Scientific growth is solely dependent on bureaucratic reforms as both these are under firm grips of bureaucracy. Narendra Modi Ji may try quite a lot but bureaucracy is capable of stalling everything in India. We need basic fundamental changes in administrative structure of India. Unless we abolish the Babu culture nothing is possible.

 

[Bhadra]

All of these can be provided by other countries in more quantity than China. Don't worry these small countries are rascals in their own right, they will gladly take Chinese money, say bhai bhai to them but let them try and antagonize us and then they will know the meaning of suffering. Nepal was forced to starve when we cut off their supplies. Try as it might, China cannot supply Nepal. Same with Sri Lanka too, we have enough leverage. With Maldives China lost all their investment once Indian Navy Ships showed up. So chillax and drink your peg let the Chinese lose their money.

No Craig, Republic TV assessment is realistic.

You can not compare the geographical position of Bhutan with Nepal or Maldives. Bhutan is strategically far more important and crucial for the security of India. The Chinese intentions with respect to Bhutan have always been expansionist and hostile with a view to expanding Chumbi valley as also threaten Tawang east of Bhutan. The political reforms have led too many groups to emerge in Bhutan and many of those are rabidly pro-China.

China threatening Chumbi valley would lead to a major military crisis and confrontation at this crucial stage.

 

[Bhadra]

and he was the only one who was from the South Indian states, all rest 17 KIA were from the traditional army recruiting grounds in UP, Bihar, Punjab, Haryana, Raj and Uttarakhand..

Right, the terrain is not friendly to any specific community or people from any area. Till that is understood very thing is OK.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Something is better than nothing mate.
During times of war they will have a robust Logistic supply.
Y20 will be the backbone of their troop and supply replenishment.
Light artillery will be easy to deploy on Himalayan heights.
Light tank will give them an edge over our T72 which are too old now.

Y20 are all supposedly in one air base and still have engine issues like all chinese planes??
There would still be issues of refuelling. Chinese have limited mid-air refuelling capacity.
Himalayas logistically would be a nightmare for any war machinery . And fuel access
to the Himalayas would be another issue, probably one narrow road would provide access;
that would be treacherous or impossible to traverse and easily destroyed if needed.
Trying to bring conventional machinery to the himalayas would be a death trap
for the Chinese. Supply routes could be destroyed and chinese would be slaughtered Imo.
India has extensive experience in mountain warfare and Chinese have none.
Mountain warfare requires specialized training and equipment. mountain training is difficult,
demanding and, if not regularly practiced, subject to rapid skill-fade. I don't think too
many countries have specialized mountain divisions.(India does). USA has comes to train with
India in mountain warfare. Good snipers used strategically are an asset in mountain warfare
and not mentioned.

.

 

[Alfalfa]

Wait ..Wait... where the hell you intended to take me...

There is nothing to hide... that is a reality... Indian Army is truly Secular from Indian standards (not leftist standards) and it represents all India proportionately as per their young male recruitable population including Scheduled castes and OBCs who have their own Regiments besides being GD soldiers.. you can check that amongst the list of casualties of IA like many JNU stalwarts were doing it a few months back. That is the policy, and anyone is always welcome to put an RTI on MoD....
So far Muslims are concerned not even 2% of them are tenth class pass and possess very poor physical standards ... what can Army do?

Go do it .... you have some wrong ideas friend.

Why are you always itching for an argument... I have no wrong Ideas, , ... the issue I was trying to raise was of ethnic composure.... All 4 South Indian states, Gujarat and JnK are poorly represented in the army... its a fact, don't want to get into the caste or Muslim angle.

Im not going to do anything, you need to chill your vibe man... Its aggressive all the time, even when not talking to me

 

[Sanglamorre]

Right, the terrain is not friendly to any specific community or people from any area. Till that is understood very thing is OK.

I might have to disagree on that. It's a well documented fact with geneological studies that in the region, Tibetans have genes that make them more suited to the high altitude environment. Curiously, they got it from interbreeding with Denisovans, an extinct hominin.

 

[Craigs]

Something is better than nothing mate.
During times of war they will have a robust Logistic supply.
Y20 will be the backbone of their troop and supply replenishment.
Light artillery will be easy to deploy on Himalayan heights.
Light tank will give them an edge over our T72 which are too old now.

Let them demonstrate their capability with at least one hot war or overseas deployment. Then we will see.

 

[Bhadra]

I might have to disagree on that. It's a well documented fact with geneological studies that in the region, Tibetans have genes that make them more suited to the high altitude environment. Curiously, they got it from interbreeding with Denisovans, an extinct hominin.

You are welcome to disagree but Indian Army Medical Corps have conducted many studies on that and found no specific favour to anyone..

We have Tibetan type soldiers in IA and know what they are...

 

[LETHALFORCE]

You are welcome to disagree but Indian Army Medical Corps have conducted many studies on that and found no specific favour to anyone..

We have Tibetan type soldiers in IA and know what they are...

in USA native americans were suppose to be ideal for work
at high altitudes. This was provenby checking oxygen levels
in different races , it was found Native americans can function
better even with low blood oxygen levels.

 

[Floydian]

Guys, just wondering, how easy is it for China to transfer their troops and equipment via Bhutan and Nepal (land/air)? In times of war, I don't think china would care to take permission from them if they indeed plan to use their land/air to stage an attack...

 

[Bhadra]

in USA native americans were suppose to be ideal for work
at high altitudes. This was provenby checking oxygen levels
in different races , it was found Native americans can function
better even with low blood oxygen levels.

OK Very good...
Where is the HighAltitude area of USA ... I would like to visit there....

 

[Sanglamorre]

You are welcome to disagree but Indian Army Medical Corps have conducted many studies on that and found no specific favour to anyone..

We have Tibetan type soldiers in IA and know what they are...

It's bleeding edge study, nowhere near ready to be put into field. And it's not really something that needs a suspension of disbelief. Even Tibetan dogs have some of same adaptations. Humans follow same evolutionary rules as other animals.

On that point, Camels actually also came from high altitude snowy places. But they switched to deserts. We as humans have gone through, and are going through same processes, but there are political reasons why we don't recognise that. Because then, we'll have to ask and answer uncomfortable questions like IQ variance across populations, etc etc.

 

[Sanglamorre]

OK Very good...
Where is the HighAltitude area of USA ... I would like to visit there....

Like Rockies?

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Entire Jammu & Kashmir is integral part of India including Pakistan Occupied Kashmir, Gilgit-Baltistan & Aksai Chin.

 

[MuzzleVelocity]

This is some mad pseudo science you guys are peddling here.

 

[LurkerBaba]

Please stay on topic