India China LAC & International Border Discussions

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ninja hattori

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Guys, this is a must read to understand Chinese psyche, and some of it resonates with what I felt/saw during my time in China as well -

Thanks to RaviB, a BRF poster -
PART 1


My post goes a bit in the understanding China direction, but I'll tie it back to the current situation.

The basis for my understanding is that I studied Chinese and China quite some time back. I lived there for a bit and worked as an interpreter and consultant with Chinese coming to India for a few years. However the last time I had a proper visit to China was for the 20th anniversary of the Tiananmen Square massacre in 2009. My Chinese since then has gotten quite rusty because I had to learn another language, shifted to a completely different field, etc. Since then I have just kept myself sporadically informed and had some contact with China experts and Chinese scholars. I however have no idea about Indian defense beyond what I have read on BRF over the past 12 years and don't know much about weapon systems, etc. So please keep in mind that I'm no expert, I'm just an average guy trying to contribute my knowledge. Also what I write about the Chinese perspective might be offensive, please remember these are not my views, I just want to help you understand how the Chinese see us.

The best article on how the Chinese see the current situation is China’s Strategic Assessment of the Ladakh Clash by Yun Sun.

How the Chinese see us Indians

1. Inferior:
There is absolutely no question about this. If anyone talks about how they consider India as the origin of Buddhism, or ancient civilisation, then it's garbage. China doesn't give a damn about all that. There might be a reluctant admission that India has an ancient history but for them that history ended with the arrival of the British. The cultural revolution also pretty much cut off the contact of China with their own heritage, so they don't value culture too highly. Japan makes them insecure, USA makes them very insecure but India is inferior and not really to be taken seriously. Also India is poor and dirty.

2. Arrogant: This is a very bad thing in Chinese eyes. Humility is a virtue, arrogance is a sin. Arrogance for them means that India does not know its place. This started from the time of Nehru who tried to pretend that he was a leader of Asia. All the stuff about the UN seat for China and all that, that was China's right, Nehru was doing his duty, that's all. That's why they like Pakistan. It is servile, flatters the leaders and knows its place. (This is not a new thing, even declassified cables from the 1950s show the Pakistanis were being chamchas and undermining India).

3. Tools of powerful countries The first time the Chinese had contact with Indians in modern times was with Sikh policemen in service of the British. This shapes their perception of Indians till today. I'll quote some academic research by Isabella Jackson about this:

PDF of the article

All current social media discussion of the India-China conflict uses the term hongtou 紅頭 (red turbans) or asan 阿三 (number threes) or heigui 黑鬼 (black devils) to describe us. Most of their racist caricatures also show the Indian Army as composed of Sikhs. Indians oppressed the Chinese for the British, later they served the interest of the Soviets and now they want to serve the interests of the USA. They thought the entire idea of NAM was a self-serving lie by Nehru to fool Asian countries while serving the interests of white masters. That's pretty much what they think of India today. "Strategic autonomy" for them is again a fake front that India puts up (in fear of China) while it secretly serves the interests of the USA against China.

4. Duplicitous They have always thought of Indians in this way, partly self-projection. Partly because they see the adversary in their own image. The idea of honor is completely alien to Chinese thought. Which means all this talk of India about honor or keeping its word must be a lie. Which means they are hiding something else. Sometimes, China is smart enough to see through India (and see whatever they wanted to see). Being honest is not something anyone places too much value on. In China it is every man for himself. They wouldn't think twice about cheating anyone and corruption (also within the PLA) is expected and only punished as part of a package deal, if someone also commits another crime like disloyalty to the party.

5. Divided Since we are a democracy, all our internal differences are all out there for the entire world to see. The Chinese differences are not visible, not even to the Chinese themselves. So they can comment about Racism in USA without bothering to give a second thought to their prison camps (which anyway only have the second class Uyghurs). They see India divided between rich and poor, castes and naturally all sorts of political parties.

These are all the comfortable opinions China holds but there are some things that make them uneasy or slightly challenge their picture of India. The space programme makes them very insecure (not just them actually). The nuclear programme makes them angry, India has no right to do such things. The CCP also fears to some extent that a successful democracy might give the people the wrong ideas. Hong Kong is an ideological threat. Taiwan too, that's why they love sharing videos of fist-fights in the Taiwanese Parliament. The Indian IT thing made them uncomfortable earlier but they then decided Indians were good at doing stupid repetitive stuff.

How the Chinese see their neighbours
Simply put as vassals. There is a periphery which needs to be periodically pacified. China is the centre of the world, if any of the small countries at its periphery gets uppity then it must periodically be taught a lesson. A peaceful periphery is especially important when the Kingdom is facing challenges. Xinjiang quite literally means "new frontier". Tibet is also part of the same strategy. Having a frontier area outside the main heartland is part of the Chinese tradition (also inner Mongolia, outer Mongolia is another story). These regions usually faced benign neglect and occasional severe repression and they were just kept around as an insulation of the heartland, extracting resources and all was secondary. So we have the heartland, directly ruled barbarians (Tibet, Xinjiang), and tributaries (Laos, Mongolia but also uppity ones like Vietnam) outside that. The tributaries should send gifts to the emperor and recognise his authority and they'll be left alone.
explains why they had a sikh in doklam video.
 

Bhadra

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Yes. For the bold.

Are you aware that the IA used to patrol to PP 19 in 1994?

Obviously my pay grade is very low so I can very confidently tell you the Officer who was (and is still) considered one of the 'brains' for Indian Nuclear posturing and changing the fundamental outlook of IA from purely defensive to offensive posture in Op Brasstacks and who played a fundamental role in formulating the Draft Nuclear Doctrine and training set up as also was in the JWG 1 which was initially set up under PM PVNR, who got the evidence of M11s being deployed in Tibet in 1994 over Dokalam simmering tensions and who opposed withdrawal of the Kupup Brigade and troops, also opposed draw down of troops in these areas. What happened? In order to seek peace, the draw down took place with ITBP being mandated to do the needful. It is the very same organization which had a standoff in 2017 with Chinese troops at a place where there is a Chinese defensive line and jetty today.

FYI, in 1990s, due to financial constraints, armour was majorly mothballed and armoured corps troops sent into valley in CI grid. Same was the situation with Mech Inf who, at places, had to deploy BMPs to escort the ROPs in heartlands along Lolab-Bandipore-Sopore.
From where have you brought thse pearls of wisdom ?? Half concocted half untruth.... like ITBP is Sikkim in 1994 and all that bull..
Bro you are talking about an organisation and not your farmhouse ..
Be careful.. Armoured Corps and Mechinf boys continue to be in valley even today ... so what is the big deal..??
Where is Lolab and where is Bandipora and where is Sopore ? What is the connection between ?? Have have ever been to those places ??
 

Bhadra

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As the next phase of Infra push we should complete laying asphalt on DBO and create permanent infra to house a whole battalion worth of strength with solar panels, food and Weapons storage.

They are trying to stretch our resources and we are getting stretched.
The age old tradition of our forces being reactive persists today.
Let's change our ways and start stretching them.

Make another link road with DBO. The chini want to cut of our connection to DBO so we will use the second link road in case it gets captured.

View attachment 50878
@Bhumihar bhai

Bahul lamba teer Mara hai...
Is the appraoch through the air..??
 

mokoman

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View attachment 50890
FROM WEIBO:-
A user posted pictures of an award ceremony in which a team trained in mixed martial arts was honoured by Major General Wang Haijiang of PLA (WTC). These men were trained in militia-like tactics. The user suggests they are connected to Galwan clash.
Saw same pics , its from a propaganda vid . Couple of militias in a stadium in Tibet lhsha .

They all look like hans chinese . did'nt see any tibetians.

Soldiers , construction crew , some women ,riot police . Looked like they were going to colonize mars.

Dont think its connected to clash.
 

BeEverVectorMan

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I felt very proud as a Bihari when I heard the shaurya of Bihari soldiers and when I listened to the words of martyrs families. True that there is no shortage of bravery in Biharis.
Jai Parshuram
One of the martyrs brother said

He didn't died alone he took four enemies with him because he was not thief he was lion
His superior told me that your brother made sure that he take four enemy lives with him

What a josh what a death for his motherland
Proud of my soldiers proud of their valours
 
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