India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[LETHALFORCE]

Watch out for Chinese asymmetric warfare cyberattacks etc... they are the dirtiest players around,

 

[Suhaan]

 

[Bhadra]

Sure. But I think these guys must be sitting there with a lot of manpads. What else they have is a matter of recon. I would definitely not send a helicopter there.

OK..
So what would be the average width of Galwan river bed?

Let me further elaborate. Valleys are generally V shaped if the valley is a product of erosion of the soil by water . However it is steep U shape when the bed is the result erosion of rocks.

Say the average valley width is 50 m to 100m.

Now tell me how easy or difficult is it for an artillery guns to concentrate fire within 50 = 100m.

Can you give me half the beaten zones of Indian Army guns including mortars? Out of 100 bombs fired from a 155mm how many will exactly land in River bed where the Chinese have troops. vehicles and Camps.

​

 

[Holy Triad]

Hmm...



After the death of their CO near PP 14, warriors from 16 Bihar Regt & other Indian Army troops brazenly counterattacked the PLA camp around midnight of 15/16 June, hacking hapless PLA inhabitants who attempted desperately to flee. A larger PLA force arrived to engage them later .

 

[Sridhar_TN]

This makes more sense than any of our rants hypothesis and speculations for the past month. The his is something I’ve been coming to conclusion as well...in terms of why...why now...
Samirs last point is vital. What’s happening in the Himalayas is that he beginning of the next decades worth of strategic shift that the ccp is trying to make. That’s the only reason that makes sense as to why the ccp would take in India, Australia, Vietnam, Japan and the us at the same time...the dragon is trying to claw and spread its wings thinking it’s time has arrived....but it’s yet to force India to submit. India, a country nowhere close to the power capacity of America. And that too the Ccp can only try to do with the pakis and Nepalese applying pressure..tsk tsk...you’ve shown your hand too soon..subtlety is an art that has been lost I guess..the Middle Kingdom is now the enemy of the world..where and what will you do now great Han...you could have followed the oath of peace and become a responsible power...but it’s not in your nature now is it...it’s your nature to claw, to dominate and to subjugate...if there’s one thing you should have learnt...humans will always resist and submission is not something that is feasible any more...tsk tsk

 

[ladder]

rules of engagement changed for IA, we don't if the same clearance has been given to ITBP.
Difference between galwan incident & before is that they were PLA used these tactics against ITBP too, there were no fatalities but they did use them. first time in decades PLA pissed off IA and got a brutal response.

so PLA will have different approach to ITBP & IA, we will have to see.

Yes. Have posted the news item in this thread.

 

[Tuco]

He says ULH by Kalyani has completed user trails, thats a good news.

 

[AmitG]

I have been watching this thread and read almost every post here since the All Party Meeting. Saw two midnight meltdowns, and a lot of cryptic one liner condescending posts.

I am actually amazed at how everybody missed a MOMENTOUS Strategic signalling that Modi did while he was giving the closing remarks in the APM. ( And this is a defence forum !!)

When he was mentioning the weapons systems that the Govt has given on priority to the Armed forces, he mentioned Helicopters, Fighter planes and ... wait for it.. Missile Defense system !!

Guys, dont you get it ? Indian BMD is operational and the PM has given China a warning. A STRATEGIC shot across the bow.

If we monitor the chatter coming from multiple sources, including Chinese, we can construct a lot from scattered pieces, and a picture begins to form of what happened on 15 June night.

1. Chinese attack our CO and his aides of 16 Bihar, when he was verifying Compliance. (It is because of this that he was himself at the frontlines). Chinks intentionally target our CO in the initial assault, grievously wounding him and other two aides, who died on the way to HQ.

2. Our guys inflicted some casualties, But because the Chinese were having the higher ground, they could not do much and retreated with the bodies of the Fallen.

3. When the Battalion came to know, they immediately arm up with whatever they can get other than guns, ( Remember the other officers leading them would inform them that the Chinese target would be to get them to fire first to play victim, so to kill them and at the same time deny them the outcome they want, their best option would be to fight with Improvised weapons and hand to hand combat.) They split into multiple war parties and CROSSED the LAC into the Chinese base and wreaked absolute havoc.

4. Some of our guys are overwhelmed with numbers and taken down, some fell with enemies into the ridge and the river, where they died of drowning and hypothermia. Some are captured by the Enemy because of sheer numbers advantage.

5. Our guys retreat after having their fill of death and destruction. The guys captured by Chinese are left behind as there us no realistic hope of rescue then, and the Survivors inform the Div HQ about what transpired.

6. The Chinese casualties are in three figures and they are furious and threaten to execute our boys. It is then that the IA immediately surrounds and traps a Chinese position. Chinese bat munchers are informed that if anything happens to our boys, then these rats are fried. Hence, the Chinese FMs impotent statement of asking India to discipline and restrain their frontline troops.

7. After two days of negotiations, our boys and Chink rats are silently exchanged without the spectacle that the Chinks wanted.

8. Now Enter the internal dynamics of the CCP. Xitler has alienated the old guard and the next generation of leaders by appointing himself Chairman for life. There is a lot of internal dissent against him with Li Keqiang as the Focus. Now, as long as the PLA keeps the casualties under wraps, its smooth sailing for Xi, as lying is second nature for Commie dogs. But what if the faction against Xi ( Jiang Zemin comes to mind ), is planning to leak the visuals of the aftermath of the Indian Counterattack to Chinki SM to inflame Chinese passions and force Xi into a destructive and unwinnable war with India ? How do our guys react ? Exactly the way you saw the MEA react. Restate our priorities and redlines and emphasize who was the one who actually wanted to change the Status quo.

9. Now, the reason Modi called the APM , is to give a strategic signal to the Enemy ( both the Xi faction and anti-Xi faction ) that the Indian political class is one and stands behind the armed forces in any eventuality along with Indian public. He also sent two Strategic messages. That I am restraining my people here, who are clamoring for revenge. If there is any further action from your side, then all bets are off. Which in fact leads us to the second strategic message, regarding BMD.

10. The PM was sending a message to the Anti-Xi faction to not play any games by leaking the Chinese casualties and visuals of the attack. Because if things do really go out of control and SHTF, then we have BMD, Do you ? All your Chinese Miracles will be radioactive ash. So shut up and take your losses.

So, guys please analyse calmly and rationally. Dont take any info at face value and in isolation. Try to combine multiple pieces of info and build a picture to understand that there are Wheels within Wheels.

The Indian BMD or any one for the matter is not a magic wand. It is of no use against Chinese long range missiles. Don’t get carried away. Currently our BMD can handle only missiles of 2k range. If things go nuclear there will be large scale devastation on both sides. Things won’t even escalate to a full scale war. You know why? Because it would defeat the very strategic purpose the Chinese started this for in the first place.

 

[ARVION]

The Indian BMD or any one for the matter is not a magic wand. It is of no use against Chinese long range missiles. Don’t get carried away. Currently our BMD can handle only missiles of 2k range. If things go nuclear there will be large scale devastation on both sides. Things won’t even escalate to a full scale war. You know why? Because it would defeat the very strategic purpose the Chinese started this for in the first place.

If I remember properly PDV and PDV MK 2 are specially designed for ICBM interception and both are in production correct me if I am wrong

 

[Sridhar_TN]

If I remember properly PDV and PDV MK 2 are specially designed for ICBM interception and both are in production correct me if I am wrong

Thats a part of the whole system. Standard part of any bmd program. Nothing specific there..

 

[mokoman]

Do we have an operational Kali 10000 or any EMP platform? if i remember correctly there were strong rumors that our Sukhois in AP were brought down by chinki EMPs , i think it was a Sunday Guardian article few years ago.

Edit : found this, cant locate the Sun Gr article though.

https://www.cybersecurity-insiders.com/china-cyber-attacks-indian-sukhoi-30-jet-fighters/

Sounds like bullshit , similar to that fake news of our nuclear sub getting flooded due to hatch left open .

 

[HindaviSwarajya]

Zee news saying we had captured their kernal alive. In addition killed 7 of their soldiers. This is just by sikhs and addition to what 43 + we killed that day i believe

 

[Dharmocrat]

The Indian BMD or any one for the matter is not a magic wand. It is of no use against Chinese long range missiles. Don’t get carried away. Currently our BMD can handle only missiles of 2k range. If things go nuclear there will be large scale devastation on both sides. Things won’t even escalate to a full scale war. You know why? Because it would defeat the very strategic purpose the Chinese started this for in the first place.

What part of my post contradicts what you said ?

The PM just reminded China of the same through this Signalling so that they do not escalate.

And you think after two decades of R &D, expensive at that, with some of our best scientists, we can still only intercept till just 2k km, then I can only sigh at your ignorance.

Here is a hint. The ability of any BMD to intercept any BM is not dependent on range. Its actually the Terminal Re entry Velocity of the Warhead as its comes down.

Remember Mission Shakti? What was the velocity of the Satellite that was intercepted by the ASAT Missile ?
Roughly 7 km/sec ?

What is the Terminal re entry velocity of a typical ICBM ? Google it and you will have an answer about the ability of Indian BMD.

 

[Tanmay]

Sikh regiment on way.

Noob question: Do Regiments ever move? Regiments are training, pride and value inculcating centres.
Its companies, batallions, brigades which move and take part in action.

 

[ARVION]

If I remember properly HAL LUH/LOH are specially designed for altitude of 6
500m to carry 400 kg plus load for use in such scenarios and its completed IOC then could we rush and increase production it could play an important role in that altitude and climatic conditions ?

 

[Blue Water Navy]

What is the current production capability of Tejas by HAL anyway? Can anybody inform me?

Support for India is now Global indeed. Some of my colleagues from US are asking that ''is there war going on between India & China?'' "If so then India should really kick China's as*, for spreading the virus".

So, I informed them "No there is no war going on but in the coming days it might just happen" and ''No India is not fighting China for the virus, it has its own issues''.

So, far from my interaction with the Western people I can tell that more or less everybody thinks China is a bully and should be punished. Brits also think that but they highly doubt India's capability. And I don't blame them their media is supercharged in undermining India as its a former British colony. Brits are also super sympathetic towards Kashmir issue you guys know why? Because the Paki immigrants has created a illusion in their minds.

 

[spikey360]

If the Chene launch missiles, they would launch from the seas. They would rather risk losing a ship or two than invite attacks on Mainland China.

 

[utubekhiladi]

Noob question: Do Regiments ever move? Regiments are training, pride and value inculcating centres.
Its companies, batallions, brigades which move and take part in action.

it usually means soldiers from that regiment along with their equipment is moving.

 

[ARVION]

What is the current production capability of Tejas by HAL anyway? Can anybody inform me?

Support for India is now Global indeed. Some of my colleagues from US are asking that ''is there war going on between India & China?'' "If so then India should really kick China's as*, for spreading the virus".

So, I informed them "No there is no war going on but in the coming days it might just happen" and ''No India is not fighting China for the virus, it has its own issues''.

So, far from my interaction with the Western people I can tell that more or less everybody thinks China is a bully and should be punished. Brits also think that but they highly doubt India's capability. And I don't blame them their media is supercharged in undermining India as its a former British colony. Brits are also super sympathetic towards Kashmir issue you guys know why? Because the Paki immigrants has created a illusion in their minds.

It could be anywhere between in the the range of 16 to 24 annual well delays happened due to price differences and HAL literally wanted large margin previously in double digits which have come down to single digits that's why delay signing 83 LCA MK 2 can blame IAF alone mistakes by all parties

 

[utubekhiladi]

What is the current production capability of Tejas by HAL anyway? Can anybody inform me?

Support for India is now Global indeed. Some of my colleagues from US are asking that ''is there war going on between India & China?'' "If so then India should really kick China's as*, for spreading the virus".

So, I informed them "No there is no war going on but in the coming days it might just happen" and ''No India is not fighting China for the virus, it has its own issues''.

So, far from my interaction with the Western people I can tell that more or less everybody thinks China is a bully and should be punished. Brits also think that but they highly doubt India's capability. And I don't blame them their media is supercharged in undermining India as its a former British colony. Brits are also super sympathetic towards Kashmir issue you guys know why? Because the Paki immigrants has created a illusion in their minds.

try to visit uk/london.. i have been there many times...
it has now clearly become a Islamic nation.. remember they were asking sharia couple of years ago