India China LAC & International Border Discussions

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Hari Sud

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Watch out for Chinese cyber attack. They have developed this capability in last 15 years. They will unleash their cyber warriors if going gets tough in the Himalayas. Right now their slow release of battle information is being picked up by questionable news website in India as gospel.
 

amit19

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Here are some chatter stories analyzing the last week fight.

Disclaimer:
Credit goes to original writers ... (if anybody interested to know who then need to find yourself :) )
This may be false, may be true ... the validity of these stories is exactly equal to all the stories we have discussed here on this and other forums. If anybody disagrees, then ignore them as fiction.

Story # 1
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So guys here is my understanding of the situation SORRY THE REAL SITUATION- Mostly from open sources, two sources that are not open, and one is not GOI (the other is to an extent of gup shup, no real or otherwise operational secrets are discussed). So disclaimer, to whoever is reading, please I am not revealing anything , it is mostly connecting dots and doing some logical analysis. Please feel free to delete it if it goes far.
So my take on the sequence
1. T+0 hours - Galwan mishap happens, PLA goes back on its word (the right word is betrayal or inability to keep your word) and kills some unarmed IA soldiers. It turns out later that there is more loss in PLA side because of their stupidity but that info only is apparent after T+ x HOURS. No body yet knows this outcome.
1 b) Some of our men also get taken hostages in this
2 a). The political and military leadership had already gamed many situations (including what if Chinese fire the first shot and kill unarmed IA soldiers).
2 b )Per the plan, IA already knows what should be the second step (targets, logistics, backup all preplanned). All moves are gamed. Some other place of IA choosing is pre-selected, forces move in. We have huge element of surprise plus the force is overwhelming and dimensions used for this would have happened months in the escalation order (i.e. what should have been done months in the fighting was our opening shot). Totally unexpected by the chinese
3.T+y hours, goal achieved, some IA casualty and more chicom casualty (mostly because we had element of surprise), area captured, reinforced
4) The beauty many Chinese soldier who had previously come to do salami slicing cannot now go back. They are trapped with IA from all sides. We have captured that was not until unequivocally in our hand.
5. Total death in operations 1 and 2 from IA =20
6. Now negotiation starts. Friends of Chines and TSP in India are all over the news with news of Indian soldier hostages. But within a day or two that news disappear. Why, well we have surrounded a much larger occupying force that will be slaughtered if anything were to happen to Indian hostages. Quickly the hostages are released. (Hint have you heard that news).
7. Chinese have a bigger dilemma, what to do with the occupying force - if they return in exchange they give up that land, if they don't return, well they are at our mercy. And the situation is as such.
8. This round we have won, let no one tell you otherwise.
9. If you want to know, all of this is true or not, follow the media that has tried hard to prop up a scion of political party that has an agreement with CCP for consultation on all matters. That media is wrongly showing a map and shifting goalpost to say that IA has won nothing. Then look atone of BR person map to see the right map and see where we are now.
10. Chinese assurance are not worth the paper they are written on. You thought TSP is chutiya in this respect, chicoms will have TSP for lunch on this. Best of luck at their friendship and any agreement that they have. It will be fun to watch who will sell the other faster, my bet is on the Chinese.
11. There assurance of xxx in exchange of dead bodies flown downstream means 0. And we know it.
</>
 

IndianHawk

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Watch out for Chinese cyber attack. They have developed this capability in last 15 years. They will unleash their cyber warriors if going gets tough in the Himalayas. Right now their slow release of battle information is being picked up by questionable news website in India as gospel.
They already tried and failed so now they are targeting Australia. Lol
Also they couldn't even stop us from hacking their medical database. Global times actually cried about Indian hacking . Lol.
 

amit19

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Disclaimer:
Credit goes to original writers ... (if anybody interested to know who then need to find yourself :) )
This may be false, may be true ... the validity of these stories is exactly equal to all the stories we have discussed here on this and other forums. If anybody disagrees, then ignore them as fiction.

Story # 2
<>
PLA attacked our troops on 15-16 eveneing/night. on 16th early morning we surrounded them at another place to build counter pressure. I had posted that Galwan rivers flows to India so anyone being washed down will flow down to India. PLA was seen removing its dead/injured and IA counted 46 stretchers being taken from Indian side alone. There were many which were removed from chinese side also. IA stated that all soldiers are accounted for. Accounted does not mean all are with us. We had nearly a company wiped out. 20 dead, 18 seriously injured, 58 lightly injured and 10 captives. So all were "accounted for".
Please read my posts on 16th. I had clearly given hints about this. Indian media is now clearly split in the vertical. We have strong pro and anti establishment media houses. None of them is telling the truth. While we have media questioning the 46 PLA deaths, they are not willing to accept 20 dead for IA and vice versa.
Let me tell you the truth. Our dead are 20 only and we did have 10 held as captive. The PLA dead are over 65 with nearly 250 were surrounded and facing certain death if PLA had not released our guys. We also had some PLA soldiers with us who were being treated at our hospitals. In all, PLA has suffered a massive loss of face with their dead and injured in multiples of our own dead/injured. What has shook the PLA is that inspite of such a detailed planning, they lost out badly.
PLA now wants time to rethink its strategy and buy time to further refine their tactics. They are not going to back off even after such a massive loss. We have to be prepared to go into offensive now when they are completly clueless and disorganised.
The Northern Army commander is Lt. Gen Y Joshi. He led a batallion in Kargil war and he nows mountain warfare better than many others of his seniority. Lastly try and read what Modi meant by "
maartay maartay maray hain". This was not a terrorist attack in which our soldiers were killed in sleep like in URI or blown up in a bus like Pulwama. it was a fight and our soldiers died fighting. Modi is keeping a door open to back down and stike China financially first.
<>
 

doreamon

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Damn.. This report of china re entering dokhlam very worrisome .If they start war entire NE can be cut off .. They r behaving like due to corona situation shop keeper is away and time to loot ...
 

amit19

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Here are some chatter stories analyzing the last week fight.

Disclaimer:
Credit goes to original writers ... (if anybody interested to know who then need to find yourself :) )
This may be false, may be true ... the validity of these stories is exactly equal to all the stories we have discussed here on this and other forums. If anybody disagrees, then ignore them as fiction.

Story # 3
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about the latest pics of ind-chn deployment
These pictures show one thing very clearly that we can block them in small pockets which can be converted to killing fields. Chines have done very stupid deployment for mountain warfare. Landslides can be triggered by just 2-3 155mm rounds and they will get trapped in valleys with no likelihood of reinforcements. The location of our airbases is just about 10 min flying time from LAC while chinese will need over 15 mins and that is a massive advantage for IAF. We will not only be able to deliver a strong punch without being intercepted but will also be able to intercept them much before they reach LAC. Lastly, PLAAF will face same problem which PAF faced on 27th Feb. The aircraft taking off from our side will not be visible on Chines radars till they climb upto the heights of Karakoram peaks while we will be able to detect them well in advance.
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Did we Indians go into their territory? did we start the build up? did we pitch tents across LAC? Why would an enemy who came prepared to fight us, will keep quiet about the injuries suffered by us when he has in his possession our troops which included four officers? They would have been the best propaganda for them to achieve their aim. But they did no such thing. What prevented them from doing it?
Some can argue that it was done for post war negotiations or to keep a door open for further negotiations. But why would you want to do it if you had achieved what you wanted. Victor takes it all. Victors write the history. What forced China to keep it hidden from the world that it was holding IA officers and men hostage?
Think about it and let me know what answers or question will you have while going thru these points. Also please remember that IA had wargamed umpteen times in Aksai Chin. They know the area better than PLA. Don't you think that a standoff which had been on for over 45 days, IA will not have made its own plans to counter such incidents by PLA.
IA did have such plans in place and they were set in motion on the night of 15-16. Every top brass in Leh knew what will happen if they tried to stop the soldiers of 16th Bihar from retaliating when their CO had been killed. CO has the status of a demigod in Paltan and he is the mybaap of every officer and men. Chinese were shocked to being frozen in action and did not know what has hit them. Winning an ambush is one thing and fighting a pitched battle is entirely different game.
We did not speak about PLA captives as our own were held captive. But why did PLA keep silent? Was it because we also held their soldiers and officers captive? If you find someother answer to my question please enlighten me.
Giving one side of story to bash political leadership is not what any prudent man will ever do. People with political agenda do it. This is a forum where we share what we think and know. It is not a forum to propagate one's political leanings. We have separate threads for that. This thread is about present stand off and only truth as one may know should be posted here without anykind of political leanings. Remember, a very thin line diffentiates armed forces and political leadership. Armed forces of a nation are the extension of political will of a nation. We must not engage in a propaganda which can bring bring bad name to our armed forces who have stood by the constitution of India even at the peril of their lives. This is part of the oath we all took when we became officers.
<>
 

amit19

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Here are some chatter stories analyzing the last week fight.

Disclaimer:
Credit goes to original writers ... (if anybody interested to know who then need to find yourself :) )
This may be false, may be true ... the validity of these stories is exactly equal to all the stories we have discussed here on this and other forums. If anybody disagrees, then ignore them as fiction.

Story # 4
<>
It seems the IA aren't babes in the woods after all. Retaliation was certainly according to planned contingencies. They went across LAC to Chinese held positions, also noted by Abhijit Mitra Iyer (FWIW). They essentially gutted the Chinese like so many trout, with knives and bayonets. Yes, it is barbarous.
They had set up explosives on the ridgelines, triggering rock falls that doomed many Chinese troops. Some reports attribute this to the weight of the Chinese soldiers or a cloud burst. Of course, torrential rains at 15,000ft; the dude who started that bit of disinformation needs to take a course in meteorology.
This was a stunningly ferocious action. The Chinese aren't braying about teaching India another lesson, unhinged and comical. Actually they stopped after Doklam.
Something big must have happened to their outsized egos there too. Perhaps the IA will leak that story soon.
<>
 

cereal killer

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How will they react (Indonesians and Malaysians)?
We can speculate but few years ago Indonesia declined India's offer for joint patrol there.

There is also an alternative route for China but Indonesia's southern ports are heavily underdeveloped. That logistics agreement with Australia came at a right time.
 

Brood Father

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Let the Govt. and armed forces deal with the present course of action in whatever way they seem fit.
They proved their mettle on Myanmar and Paki side.

So, what should be the future course of action?

Your short guide to defeat Pakis and Chinkis forever.

First. Unofficially ban commie and its sister ideologies... yeah that includes bullshit called liberalism, Marxism, and secularism. They are tools of your enemies. Look at how China, US, and Russia f*cked you royally all these years. Start with squeezing funds to Humanities in Universities.

And treat every f*cking country as your enemy. Let me tell you why. Most of the western countries think you as a street shitter and a milching cow to fill up their coffers. Even Israelis and Russians think you of the same. Whichever idiot have soft spot for these countries, f*ck you. East Asian countries think you are below them. Africans, they are looking for a chance to slaughter you in their respective countries. Remember Uganda. Now look at Kenya, Nigeria, and South Africa

I'm not saying not to deal with them economically, but asking to squeeze them dry with showering flowering platitudes.

Second. Everyone should have the right to own fire arms. Advantages outweigh negative outcomes of owning fire arms. One, there will be no exodus like Kashmiri Hindus. Second, you can setup Military Industrial Complex in a short span time. People themselves gonna invent and innovate.

Third. Make combative sports popular. Like IPL. Put lot of money and offer incentives to the participants. Heck, give reservations for them in public and private industries. You'll never be short of young fit men for armed forces. Aim for 10% of the population of the respective states to have combative sports training. Make it enjoyable like gully cricket. For example, people love to shoot. It may surprise you. Look at people playing PUBG and First Person Shooter games.

Fourth. Democracy is the worst form of governance. Shelve it. Even communist governance ranks higher. Don't believe me? Look at how China and Russia toyed with different countries including US and India. They laugh at your favorite democratic process and use it liberally to f*ck you.
Now you gonna say... but look at US, France, Germany, Japan and other developed countries that are democratic.
Let me burst your bubble. Most of the developed countries started with authoritarian Govts. Even when they were democratic, they practiced slavery. There was an Order in the society. Look at Japan. From school onward, they are taught to maintain order. Even when western societies are degraded, Japan still has orderly society. I'm not saying Japan is a perfect society but there is an order.
So, am I advocating for dictatorship?
Hell, No.
So, what I want?
I don't have a right word for it. I want best of both of Authoritarian and Democracy that benefits the country.
Maybe an Authoritarian Democracy? Authoritarian to weed out internal and external enemies and maintain traditional norms of the society. Democratic, with heavy oversight on democratic norms that should not be used by enemy, for not to become a zombie.

So, how this will help defeat Pakis and Chinkis?
You have clear idea, that other than you every country is your enemy.
When you have clarity of your goals, you start working to achieve that goal.

If you have young fit men with Military Industrial Complex, you can toy with pakis and chinkis.
Except for the second point this is how we should now proceed
Every country is enemy
Paramillitry forces should be war trained just like army
Fuck democracy, lot of stupid ideas with little focus on national defence
Army should be given more autonomy ( kind of state with in a state)
 

utubekhiladi

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1. NCC Senior Division
2. You don't understand Hindi, don't you?
some wise admin deleted my post...

:yawn:


at the end, all i am saying is proper technique should be thought since early days.. NCC or not. we need to go away from bayonets.
 

ezsasa

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some wise admin deleted my post...

:yawn:


at the end, all i am saying is proper technique should be thought since early days.. NCC or not. we need to go away from bayonets.
you may choose an appropriate thread..
 

ladder

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some wise admin deleted my post...

:yawn:


at the end, all i am saying is proper technique should be thought since early days.. NCC or not. we need to go away from bayonets.
They were demonstrating a situation where they have already expended all their bullets. Just a demonstration.

Coming to bayonets, 16 Bihar won't agree to your suggestion.
 

Suryavanshi

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I don't work in the Parliament neither any of my close relative but I have a template of my own to remove Gandhian Ideology from armed forces. This is all my Day dreaming.

1) First Approve Lateral entry for all Industrial posts. This way experienced and visionary people can be recruited directly into positions where IAS, IES rules.

2) Restructure MOD to have 65% Uniformed officers from all ranks of the Military and the rest can be your glorified clerks. Currently there are hardly 4 or 5 officers in the MOD.

3) Keep the Cadre young, the young ones are proactive and bring new ideas to the table, a good amount of oldies should be present so as to check the young lings from taking a rash decision.

4) Upgrade CDS to five star, first among equals my foot.

5) Take out the entire MOD out of Parliament. Make a huge Building in Madhya Pradesh and make a pentagon like Structure there.

6) Erect laws to punish arms lobbyist and black list the companies that are in contact with officers, court martial and punish officers who indulge in this activity.


I dont know why Modi doesn't do this he has the power, maybe he loves his babus to much like everyone says
 

Aniruddha Mulay

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This company, Hughes Precision, a Banglore based company makes nearly all kinds of small arms ammunition, 9mm, 5.56x45mm, 7.62x39mm, 7.62x51mm, .338LM, .50 BMG.
They received license to manufacture ammo last year.
This company must be invoked to make ammunition on a war footing.
 
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