India China LAC & International Border Discussions

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Bhadra

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PM Modi’s ‘Doklam team’ back in action to stand up to China in Ladakh

The messaging from Tuesday’s meeting mirrored India’s response to the 2017 standoff when Indian troops dug in and stood their ground in the face of a rapid mobilisation by the Chinese side.

Officials said while India favours de-escalating the situation on the LAC through mutual respect and dialogue under the peace and tranquility mechanism in place, PM Modi’s ‘Doklam team’ has been told to prepare for all eventualities.

In purely military terms, the Chinese dominance and deterrence posture in the DBO sector is an effort by the PLA to try to prevent India from executing its rapid border infrastructure building plan. This summer is the last chance it has.
“The Darbuk-Shyok-DBO road will be completed this year and will raise the Indian capacity to rapidly deploy in the area. If the road project is blocked, the Indian Army will be forced to live off aerial supply lines and prepare for an arduous route linking Sansoma to Murgo to DBO through glaciated Saser La,” a national security planner in the government said.

To be sure, there has been friction between the Indian Army and PLA in Pangong Tso, Galwan and Depsang Plains for the last two years. But most of these were taken care of.

“Just as China has built infrastructure within its own claim line without any objections from India, the former is opposed to any Indian infrastructure build up as if New Delhi has military objectives while Beijing has done this to promote tourism,” said a former army chief, a reference to the infrastructure on the Chinese side where all military outposts are linked by metalled roads to the base camps.

While China has all plans to stare down India into submission with its all-weather ally Pakistan deliberately initiating troop movement in neighbouring Gilgit-Baltistan region, India cannot afford to budge from its position as this will amount to acceding to Xi Jinping’s cartographic expansion in the area through military muscle.

It is in this context that the Indian Army has inducted more troops in the theatre with others undergoing through the acclimatization process as this may be a long haul.

“The Chinese have already initiated psychological operations through its mouthpieces to remind India of the 1962 border skirmish in the same area. But this is 2020 and the leader is Narendra Modi,” said a senior cabinet minister.

 
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Hellfire

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why?
in fact we should up the ante and call the bluff.
Dhola redux. We did call bluff once, back in 1962

You really believe CCP has the stomach to go for a war now?
The way I see it, it's CCP which is desperate to avoid a war.
You see it wrong. This was precisely the situation in run up to 1962.

"Appear weak when you are the strongest"

We must remain ready to kick them if need be but first must exhaust all options diplomatically.

A limited conflict will play right into Chinese leadership's hands, which is increasingly facing dissidence over loss of jobs, severe economic downturn as international demand for goods and services out of China bottoms out and mishandling of COVID19 within and outside China, comes back to haunt them.

Their moves in Hong Kong are a strategy to prevent dissidence within their own country, which will brew if we play our cards right and with utmost patience (which we seem to be doing).

Chinese are very patient, we must be more.

In the interim, I propose that GoI must declare Tibet as an occupied nation. Let the games begin.
 

Hellfire

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हो गई है पीर पर्वत-सी पिघलनी चाहिए,
इस हिमालय से कोई गंगा निकलनी चाहिए।


आज यह दीवार, परदों की तरह हिलने लगी,
शर्त लेकिन थी कि ये बुनियाद हिलनी चाहिए।


हर सड़क पर, हर गली में, हर नगर, हर गाँव में,
हाथ लहराते हुए हर लाश चलनी चाहिए।


सिर्फ हंगामा खड़ा करना मेरा मकसद नहीं,
मेरी कोशिश है कि ये सूरत बदलनी चाहिए।


मेरे सीने में नहीं तो तेरे सीने में सही,
हो कहीं भी आग, लेकिन आग जलनी चाहिए।

I am a fan of General George S Patton:

“No dumb bastard ever won a war by going out and dying for his country. He won it by making some other dumb bastard die for his country.”
 

Hellfire

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Its SM, as in regular people trolling and supporting, and its just Nationalism without any prefix, You want average citizen to shiver and cry out of fear?
Are you aware of the precise triggering of 1962 war?

For that you will have to bring Nehru back to life and then completely destroy army's capability and dance to the whims of CIA,
and also denuclearize India.
How is this relevant?

When did we tone UP or escalate?
SM. Head over there ... find the hyper tweets with no idea of either the terrain, the logistics challenges for both PLA and own operations, just to name a couple of factors.
Just head a couple of posts back, somebody has proposed using a nuke - to me.

What do you think that is?
 

Hellfire

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In previous post you were asking to tone down and de-escalate, and here you are asking for huge escalation .......Chahte kya ho bhai.

I have asked for toning down the beating of war drums on SM. Also, to correct a fundamental mistake we still have - of recognizing Tibet as part of China yet insisting on McMahon Line which Chinese never signed and Tibetans signed and Chinese claim as irrelevant as they were not authorized to.
 

IndianHawk

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I am a fan of General George S Patton:

“No dumb bastard ever won a war by going out and dying for his country. He won it by making some other dumb bastard die for his country.”
So let's pushback to Chinese and see if they are dumb or not. Who will die to protect tibet ? Chinese or they will get someone else to die by your logic?
 

Hellfire

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So let's pushback to Chinese and see if they are dumb or not. Who will die to protect tibet ? Chinese or they will get someone else to die by your logic?

If you can appreciate the role played by subtle art of diplomacy to maneuver into a position wherein minimal military force, if necessary, is applied, to achieve your objectives, you will understand what I am saying here.
 

Waanar

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Are you aware of the precise triggering of 1962 war?



How is this relevant?



SM. Head over there ... find the hyper tweets with no idea of either the terrain, the logistics challenges for both PLA and own operations, just to name a couple of factors.
Just head a couple of posts back, somebody has proposed using a nuke - to me.

What do you think that is?
Social media posts are not escalations.
 

IndianHawk

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If you can appreciate the role played by subtle art of diplomacy to maneuver into a position wherein minimal military force, if necessary, is applied, to achieve your objectives, you will understand what I am saying here.
Actual control on lac is far more important than any diplomatic bullshit. Remember possession is 90% the ownership.

We can use your subtle arts once we have more area under our control. We'll see how much patience Chinese have . Our abjective is to take back axai chin in the long run. We must move towards that with every chance we get.
 

Hellfire

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Actual control on lac is far more important than any diplomatic bullshit. Remember possession is 90% the ownership.

We can use your subtle arts once we have more area under our control. We'll see how much patience Chinese have . Our abjective is to take back axai chin in the long run. We must move towards that with every chance we get.

One simple Question:

Have you ever carried out a military operation in that terrain?

I will precisely bring to fore the bullshit for what it is and what it is not.
 

Hellfire

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What makes you think I will answer that on a public forum . But I'll let you know I'm aware of that terrain and china more than the most.
No body is asking you to detail out the salient factors of whether you operated in a particular axis or not. A yes or a no could have sufficed.

I can say, I know it pretty damn well. Beyond that, I need not really list out how, why, what and where of

But coming back to the point, what is the biggest rate determiner (in terms of logistics) in conduct of operations in that terrain (let us say ladakh till sugar sector viz western portion of LAC)?
 

Hellfire

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No govt account has indulged in what you are insinuating . So your complain is totally baseless.
Did I say Govt? Or did I say SM?

GoI = SM? No? Then?

Am I complaining? Did I complain to you? Or did I put forth a point?
 

IndianHawk

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No body is asking you to detail out the salient factors of whether you operated in a particular axis or not. A yes or a no could have sufficed.

I can say, I know it pretty damn well. Beyond that, I need not really list out how, why, what and where of

But coming back to the point, what is the biggest rate determiner (in terms of logistics) in conduct of operations in that terrain (let us say ladakh till sugar sector viz western portion of LAC)?
I don't know the exactly which factor affects the costs most as in my way of thought money spent on logistics there is inconsequential in terms of what must be done. Once you lose terrain no amount of savings bring it back. You end up spending far more.
 
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