India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[Holy Triad]

Face-offs have been occurring earlier too, they're nothing new. Indian Army can handle the situation well on the ground: Lt Gen (Retd) SL Narasimhan, Member, National Security Advisory Board & Director General, Centre for Contemporary China Studies




If there has been a build-up from the other side, there is also an equal counter build-up on our side,so that is nothing to be worried about.A lot of writers are playing up that so many troops have come in, public has to take it with a pinch of salt: Lt Gen (Retd) SL Narasimhan

Meetings are taking place at various levels.Military commanders have met twice one&again soon maybe another meeting coming up.Diplomatic talks underway b/w Beijing&Delhi daily. To say things are going out of hands is not the thing we should actually do:Lt Gen (Retd) SL Narasimhan



Territorial integrity&sovereignty is to be protected,whatever status quo was existing before we wouldn't like to change that&we should ensure that no changes take place. We're not wanting to escalate. I sincerely hope we will find a peaceful solution: Lt Gen (Retd) SL Narasimhan

 

[Blue Water Navy]

I would like to hear more about the Tibet issue.

 

[Bhadra]

Why take everything in a negative way he also presented the tables which showed that the Indian army and air force have a considerable advantage over china.

Its good to know what the other side can bring to the table. Its a defence forum after all.

But not at this time... We all know what the otherwise can bring... but why flash Chinese tanks... will they come there is Galwan valley... on frozen but now melting river ?? Or swim over the waters of Penang Tso ...

 

[Bhadra]

The Eagle is waking up to the Tiger-Dragon knife fight.

This is proper State Dept and not some random religious freedom committee like the USCIRF.


The Americans will counter any "India is the aggressor" narrative built by China at a global level by building a counter-narrative around China in Tibet.

I hope we do not allow any more "Noodle Makers of Kalimpong" to play spoilcraft and the dragon breathing fire down our neck....

 

[ladder]

I would like to hear more about the Tibet issue.

Read why SFF was formed. What was Nanda Devi mission.
Why was ARC Charbatia and ARC Jorhat? set up and with whose help?

 

[Bhadra]

Read why SFF was formed. What was Nanda Devi mission.
Why was ARC Charbatia and ARC Jorhat? set up and with whose help?

But you have said everything ... what is there to read now ??

 

[Blue Water Navy]

Read why SFF was formed. What was Nanda Devi mission.
Why was ARC Charbatia and ARC Jorhat? set up and with whose help?

I asked in regard to the US state dept.'s briefing.

 

[mahesh]

IfVietnam, Myanmar and Bangladesh will claim their pound of flesh.

how Bangladesh ?

 

[Alfalfa]

Posted before . No blast pen no security. Could be taken out in single strike.

Do our ALGs in Noyma etc. have blast proof holdings and pens?

 

[Hellfire]

Almost 2 brigades of each army are standing in front of each other in pre war like situations. Tension is on peak along the LAC in Leh-Ladakh & Aksai Chin. Mark my words, 2020 will be the sunrise year for India and sunset year for Ch¡n@.

At least the handle should know what space is occupied by 2 Brigades in a mountainous terrain.

If the handle means to say from Ladakh to Arunachal in the East, then the 2 is wrong and if says along Gallowan River, he/she/they need to sit with Col Ajai Shukla and talk out a strategy of how exactly are troops deployed along a potentially hostile front.

 

[Hellfire]

Do our ALGs in Noyma etc. have blast proof holdings and pens?

No. They are ALGs. Just have a temporary structure acting as an ATC.

 

[fire starter]

Chinese Vulnerabilities against Indian Airforce.

To launch any air campaign, fighter aircraft have to be deployed close to the border, roughly about 200 km to 300 km from the border of your enemy. Against India, China will have to deploy its fighter aircraft in Tibet and adjacent airfields in Xinjiang. China has 2,100 combat aircraft but most of them are deployed on its eastern seaboard. They cannot deploy all of them against India because of limited number of airfields in Tibet.

Tibet is a high-altitude plateau with mountainous terrain. China have just about five main airfields in Tibet (Kongka Dzong, Hoping, Pangta, Linzhi and Gargunsa) and another two in Xinjiang (Hotan and Kashgar). They are developing three more airfields in Tibet which are likely to be ready by 2022.

To carry out sustained fighter aircraft operations, airfields have to be mutually supporting. That if you take off from an airfield there should be another airfield nearby within 100 or 200 km, so that in case of requirement for diversion etc., you have an alternative airfield.

In the northern Xinjiang sector’s two airfields Hotan and Kashgar - the distance between them is 450 km while the distance between Hotan and Gargunsa is 550 kms. Hotan to Korla, the distance is 750 km so they are not mutually supportive. In western Tibet, there is only one airfield, Gargunsa. If Gargunsa is bombed by the Indian Air Force, there will be a gap of 1,500 km between Hotan and nearest airfield Hoping.

There is another limitation which they have. In the airfield, when you park aircraft for fighter operations, they have to be in blast protected shelters - concrete shelters. China doesn’t have any blast protected shelters at any of the airfields. After Doklam they have realised their mistake and have now started building these in Kongka Dzong (Lhasa) airfield.

The air density of Tibet region is less than 20-30% compared to sea level. The high altitude nature of Chinese airfields in Tibet, along with prevalent extreme climatic conditions seriously restrains the performance of aircraft, which reduces the effective payload capacity and combat radius by an average of 50%.

The PLAAF’s Su-27/30/ J-11/J-10s face a reduced look-down radar detection capability in the mountainous terrain, leaving the PLAAF’s meaningful early warning capability limited to medium and high altitudes. This is not helped by the five ground based radar regiments deployed in Tibet and South Xinjiang, which face the same detection issues and are unable to cover the entire Indo–China border.

Operating from airfields located near sea level elevations in plains, the IAF has no such restrictions and has the capability to effectively undertake deep penetration and air superiority missions in the Tibetan Autonomous Region with full complement of payload and fuel.

The IAF Su-30MKIs and Mirage 2000s, along with soon-to-be inducted Dassault Rafales and Tejas have a technology edge over the existing Chinese combat jets deployed in the WTC. Operating under the IAF’s Integrated Air Command & Control System, supported by the Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS), small groups of Su-30MKI/ Mirage 2000 will be able to counter larger PLAAF forces, confining the Chinese to anchored ground based radar cover around key communication nodes. While the IAF shares Russian supplied weapon heritage with the PLAAF, combat efficacy of home-produced Chinese weapons is yet to be tested in combat.

India may be at risk when Chinese stealthy J-20 becomes full developed & operational, backed by increased number of AWACS and refuelling types based on the Y-20 platform, which has a good high altitude operational capability. The IAF however is expected to maintain its combat edge in multi mission training at least till 2030, with autonomy of effort, unlike Chinese air crew who are still largely dependent on a ground control AD environment. The IAF focuses much more on experience in air combat and varied weapon delivery, backed by exposure at multinational exercises, to maintain a ‘qualitative’ edge over its foes.

 

[Bhadra]

At least the handle should know what space is occupied by 2 Brigades in a mountainous terrain.

If the handle means to say from Ladakh to Arunachal in the East, then the 2 is wrong and if says along Gallowan River, he/she/they need to sit with Col Ajai Shukla and talk out a strategy of how exactly are troops deployed along a potentially hostile front.

Do not talk of military tactics fundamentals or a lot of sensibilities will be hurt... It is almost an affront to point out pure military inaccuracies that many consider here as infringements of egos and freedom of expression.....

 

[Underground Soldier]

PM Modi’s ‘Doklam team’ back in action to stand up to China in Ladakh

The standoff in Ladakh has been triggered by Chinese People’s Liberation Army effort to block building border infrastructure in the Daulat Beg Oldie sector

m.hindustantimes.com

 

[Bhadra]

Chinese Vulnerabilities against Indian Airforce.

To launch any air campaign, fighter aircraft have to be deployed close to the border, roughly about 200 km to 300 km from the border of your enemy. Against India, China will have to deploy its fighter aircraft in Tibet and adjacent airfields in Xinjiang. China has 2,100 combat aircraft but most of them are deployed on its eastern seaboard. They cannot deploy all of them against India because of limited number of airfields in Tibet.

Tibet is a high-altitude plateau with mountainous terrain. China have just about five main airfields in Tibet (Kongka Dzong, Hoping, Pangta, Linzhi and Gargunsa) and another two in Xinjiang (Hotan and Kashgar). They are developing three more airfields in Tibet which are likely to be ready by 2022.

To carry out sustained fighter aircraft operations, airfields have to be mutually supporting. That if you take off from an airfield there should be another airfield nearby within 100 or 200 km, so that in case of requirement for diversion etc., you have an alternative airfield.

In the northern Xinjiang sector’s two airfields Hotan and Kashgar - the distance between them is 450 km while the distance between Hotan and Gargunsa is 550 kms. Hotan to Korla, the distance is 750 km so they are not mutually supportive. In western Tibet, there is only one airfield, Gargunsa. If Gargunsa is bombed by the Indian Air Force, there will be a gap of 1,500 km between Hotan and nearest airfield Hoping.

There is another limitation which they have. In the airfield, when you park aircraft for fighter operations, they have to be in blast protected shelters - concrete shelters. China doesn’t have any blast protected shelters at any of the airfields. After Doklam they have realised their mistake and have now started building these in Kongka Dzong (Lhasa) airfield.

The air density of Tibet region is less than 20-30% compared to sea level. The high altitude nature of Chinese airfields in Tibet, along with prevalent extreme climatic conditions seriously restrains the performance of aircraft, which reduces the effective payload capacity and combat radius by an average of 50%.

The PLAAF’s Su-27/30/ J-11/J-10s face a reduced look-down radar detection capability in the mountainous terrain, leaving the PLAAF’s meaningful early warning capability limited to medium and high altitudes. This is not helped by the five ground based radar regiments deployed in Tibet and South Xinjiang, which face the same detection issues and are unable to cover the entire Indo–China border.

Operating from airfields located near sea level elevations in plains, the IAF has no such restrictions and has the capability to effectively undertake deep penetration and air superiority missions in the Tibetan Autonomous Region with full complement of payload and fuel.

The IAF Su-30MKIs and Mirage 2000s, along with soon-to-be inducted Dassault Rafales and Tejas have a technology edge over the existing Chinese combat jets deployed in the WTC. Operating under the IAF’s Integrated Air Command & Control System, supported by the Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS), small groups of Su-30MKI/ Mirage 2000 will be able to counter larger PLAAF forces, confining the Chinese to anchored ground based radar cover around key communication nodes. While the IAF shares Russian supplied weapon heritage with the PLAAF, combat efficacy of home-produced Chinese weapons is yet to be tested in combat.

India may be at risk when Chinese stealthy J-20 becomes full developed & operational, backed by increased number of AWACS and refuelling types based on the Y-20 platform, which has a good high altitude operational capability. The IAF however is expected to maintain its combat edge in multi mission training at least till 2030, with autonomy of effort, unlike Chinese air crew who are still largely dependent on a ground control AD environment. The IAF focuses much more on experience in air combat and varied weapon delivery, backed by exposure at multinational exercises, to maintain a ‘qualitative’ edge over its foes.
View attachment 48748

Cut the long story short what are the conclusion... ??

Chinese will outnumber and outgun you any day and any time... What matters in air combat superiority ultimately is numbers. Do we have those....

 

[cereal killer]

Good to see Indian media now widely covering this issue now. Prior to that most Indians didn't even knew what was going on. Time to spread nationalism within the masses.

 

[daya]

Cut the long story short what are the conclusion... ??

Chinese will outnumber and outgun you any day and any time... What matters in air combat superiority ultimately is numbers. Do we have those....

Kuchh na seekha hamne... Upar baithe bureacrats sabko apni baaton me faans lete hain...

 

[ezsasa]

Good to see Indian media now widely covering this issue now. Prior to that most Indians didn't even knew what was going on. Time to spread nationalism within the masses.

My view is that Indian media covering is more risky, most channels can’t differentiate between political criticism & national security.

chances of most news channels creating panic among masses is higher, by half knowledge , sensationalism.

 

[prasadr14]

Apart From Ground forces

the Primary Weapons Of PLA that can be deployed

Type 66 is a 152 mm towed howitzer
130 mm towed field gun M1954 (M-46)
122-mm howitzer D-30

Type 15 light tank

View attachment 48737

Type 96 tank

View attachment 48738


PHL-03 is a 12-tube 300 mm (Smerch)

View attachment 48739



Type 81 is a self-propelled 122 mm

View attachment 48740

wait, they are going to carry all of those across the terrain to attack us and we will do nothing?

How about the supplies? How are they going to manage it?
to fight a war even for few days, unless there is continuous supply of logistics, it's not possible.
All we need is one Brahmos taking out their main supply route and their plans vanish.

Just saying...

 

[cereal killer]

My view is that Indian media covering is more risky, most channels can’t differentiate between political criticism & national security.

chances of most news channels creating panic among masses is higher, by half knowledge , sensationalism.

GOI should strictly give instructions to channels like NDTV that any such thing won't be tolerated. Besides other hardcore right wing channels & journalists should refrain from chest thumping & all. Instead show stories of Indian soldiers bravery in 1967 that many Indians still don't know. Ask people to remain strong & don't show weakness like what happened in Abhi's case. Back your forces till the bitter end. Support the government moves in such case.