India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[IndianHawk]

If getting 5.5% of your total claim area for final settlement is considered 'favourable' then what you said is true.

Chinese claims are deliberately over exaggerated in the first place . So we should give them exactly zero concession if at all.

 

[TheHurtLocker]

Agreed on the Rafale bit, remember we had the Su-30Ks during Kargil but did not see action, going further back, we had the MiG-21 in 65(a handful) but when the hostilities broke out, they were not used.
Integration takes time, the reason why IAF is eyeing 21 MiG-29s and more Su is because of this.

 

[IndianHawk]

Agreed on the Rafale bit, remember we had the Su-30Ks during Kargil but did not see action, going further back, we had the MiG-21 in 65(a handful) but when the hostilities broke out, they were not used.
Integration takes time, the reason why IAF is eyeing 21 MiG-29s and more Su is because of this.

Su30 didn't had guided bombs integrated which was done on mirage faster.
Rafale is coming integrated with all latest weaponry already.

 

[ezsasa]

Please don't make such simplistic comments on 1971 war.

simplistic question asked, simplistic answer given to avoid turning this thread into a discussion on 1971 war.

there are more detailed discussions on 1971 war in other older threads.

You are free to check it out.

 

[ladder]

Chinese claims are deliberately over exaggerated in the first place . So we should give them exactly zero concession if at all.

Everybody goes to the table with maximalist position and comes back with a solution that they think can sell to the public.
For open democracy, the margin is sliver thin but for propaganda govt. like China the margin are quite large. Like the example 94.5% squeeze.
They offered grants and soft loans and begged for a face saving solution, some real-estate.

 

[Gandaberunda]

Govt has surrendered. Let’s accept the harsh truth.

When OSINT guys said PLA have significant presence and building up at F4 few hyper nationalist denied. Panag said they occupied heights at F4 and now it's clearly evident they did. It's a lesson not to go blindly picking camp when PoV is different than understanding real ground situation

 

[IndianHawk]

Everybody goes to the table with maximalist position and comes back with a solution that they think can sell to the public.
For open democracy, the margin is sliver thin but for propaganda govt. like China the margin are quite large. Like the example 94.5% squeeze.
They offered grants and soft loans and begged for a face saving solution, some real-estate.

We shouldn't give them even 0.0001 % even if takes all out hydrogen bomb war. That's all I'm saying .

 

[scatterStorm]

Chinese internal status currently:

To sum up the video:

1. There generals were pulling so much cash, they have to launder it to US and buy properties.
2. Fund Uni's such as in Australia, Harvard, Yale to say a few, they wen't rouge and now based in US.
3. Chinese firms have no restriction on copying things, even patents are used and if caught, are given only apologies. (Shocked)
4. They are so good in tech, because they've already developed manufacturing of that caliber to compliment the stealing.
5. On first Covid wave, Wuhan citizens were not allowed to move to other provinces in china, but were allowed to go outside China.
6. Super Micro an OEM who manufactures server grade h/w was allowed to have a Wifi chip with backdoor access, these were installed. Hence the F16 copies and F35 copy and Blackhawk copies you see.

 

[Why so serious?]

This is an sculpture found in srirangam Temple. The sculpture shows one of the naickers (Rulers of Nayak empire in TN) being back stabbed by Chinese trader.

This is not a mere sculpture but a warning given by our ancestors to be cautious while trusting them.




For better view

The artist had a good sense of humour too ...

Chini ke sar pe ghode ka lund rakh diya hai

 

[ezsasa]

In view of poor progress, it is decided by Dedicated Freight Corridor Corporation of India (DFCCIL) to terminate the contract with Beijing National Railway Research and Design Institute of Signal and Communication Group Co. Ltd.

 

[IndianHawk]

Babus are hand picked,

or else they are whipped away,

Gujarat administration of his time will give you the required proofs,

this babu vs military theory is being floated just to create a distrust in policy circle,

I saw people blaming jaishankar here just becoz he was a BABU once

where as he is the one bating for getting over with LEGACY ISSSUES in every other international forum.

both military and babus have got rats expecting kick backs.

True ultimately politicians chose top bureaucrats for their posts and they implement govt agenda .

That's why modi govt works far more effectively then Congress with same bureaucracy.

Same bureaucracy which was giving kashmir all leverage is now ruling Kashmir with iron fist.

So let's stop blaming bureaucracy for now.
That doesn't add anything to discussion.

 

[ninja hattori]

and if babus are to blame,

then why we have gone indigenous in most of our design in navy

whereas same is not case of indigenisation in IAF or per se army.

y such difference?

one arm of defence is getting favour from BABUs is that the case?

both are equally responsible.

 

[ladder]

We shouldn't give them even 0.0001 % even if takes all out hydrogen bomb war. That's all I'm saying .

Then claim more than what you want. But if you exaggerate your claim, in democracy people will make it red line, you can't back out. That's why the above answer.
China does it because it can sell a compromise solution to it's citizen and use propaganda to call it victory.
The propaganda that the other poster fell for.

 

[Jay99]

I know some of them and am searching in open net to atleast see one of them.

which ones?

 

[ninja hattori]

True ultimately politicians chose top bureaucrats for their posts and they implement govt agenda .

That's why modi govt works far more effectively then Congress with same bureaucracy.

Same bureaucracy which was giving kashmir all leverage is now ruling Kashmir with iron fist.

So let's stop blaming bureaucracy for now.
That doesn't add anything to discussion.

and again for addition of facts,

He called an ex IAS who left IAS for swachh bharat who left India 20 years ago.

381 babus, including 24 IAS, punished: Personnel ministry to PM Modi

The ministry has taken actions like premature retirement and cut in remuneration against 381 civil services officers, including 24 from the IAS.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

 

[scatterStorm]

Update:

Spoiler: Related to Finger 4

Which means, we don't give two fucks, we will stay here, do what you can do.

 

[WARREN SS]

Here MAP representation of And Topography of ITBP/Army base at finger 4

 

[freethinker777]

The Chinese want a 1962 type situation where they got "50 years of peace". It was a short war. Although Chinese retreated from many positions (because they couldn't hold them) they'd achieved their objectives. India was cut down to size and demoralised.

There are other parallels. In 1962 rest of the world was busy with the Cuban missile crisis. Right now there's Covid19 and domestic unrest in USA.

However, I feel China has miscalculated. In 1962 PLA was a battle hardened force under Mao, this time the roles are reversed. War won't be against the entire Chinese war machinery. China has powerful adversaries in the East, they can't move the bulk of troops here from that front. Also, I'm hoping that we'll use this opportunity to push defence reforms which have been pending since Kargil

There are reports that faction of PLA aligned to Li keqiang has refused to obey orders of central command PLA. A big split is developing in CCP and PLA due to policies of Xi Jinping. Xi might be removed from party or be assassinated due to infighting.

 

[Hijibiji]

simplistic question asked, simplistic answer given to avoid turning this thread into a discussion on 1971 war.

there are more detailed discussions on 1971 war in other older threads.

You are free to check it out.

1) A simplistic question asked does NOT mandate a simplistic answer from a mod.
2) I know very well that detailed discussions are there on 1971; however since I am from WB, i don't need any discussion on 1971 war from any forum (especially when @bengalraider was the defacto spokes-person of Bangladesh on DFI )
3) What is the point in making confused people more confused by giving them simplistic answers. Better idea is to refer those confused people to the 1971 thread, rather than me!

 

[IndianHawk]

Update:

Spoiler: Related to Finger 4

Which means, we don't give two fucks, we will stay here, do what you can do.

So this clears that Chinese are not anywhere west of fingure 4 anymore .