India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[Bhadra]

Such readings of Nepal are deeply flawed.
PS I have no love lost for Nepalis,but yes they are far more closer to us than even the Bhutanese.
Over aggressiveness won't help here much.

He has already lost Nepal to China before the bell being rung for the first round..

 

[Bhadra]

READ MANY TIMES IF NEEDED: CLARIFY YOUR MIND

China has not 'CAPTURED' any Indian territory!​

By Colonel S DINNY (retd)
June 15, 2020

China has not 'CAPTURED' any Indian territory! - Rediff.com

The Chinese have only created limited defences for protection of their posts which are located well in depth and much away from the Line of Actual Control, notes Colonel S Dinny (retd).

m.rediff.com

During the current border crisis between India and China in Eastern Ladakh, there has been an attempt made by some to project a narrative that China has captured Indian territory.

Genuine concerns of every Indian citizen on India's territorial integrity need to be addressed and questions need to be asked.

It is absolutely important that in a democratic country like India, the actions of the armed forces are debated, questioned and if need be criticised vehemently.

However, to quote unknown 'government or army sources' to create a fog of doubt, even while talks are on to resolve the issue, doesn't seem to be with the best of intentions.

The present India-China border crisis in Eastern Ladakh is not another Kargil.

There can be no 'capture' of Indian territory here.

And how can we say that? It is because, 'satellites don't lie' and the 'Indian Army has a time-tested reporting system'.

By now it is clear that troops of the People's Liberation Army and the Indian Army have locked horns in the areas along the Line of Actual Control on the North Bank of Pangong Tso, Galwan Valley and areas in the vicinity of Hot Springs.

The satellite images of these areas during this conflict, available as open source intelligence, brings out some interesting insights.

Along the Galwan Valley and in the areas of Hot Springs, image analysts indicated that both sides have taken close positions opposite each other, but within their own area of Line of Actual Control.

There has not been a single image showing any 'ingress' or 'capture' of Indian territory in these areas

However, in the area between Finger 8 and Finger 4 on the North bank of the Pangong Tso lake, tents have been seen placed by the Chinese.

Indian deployment can also be seen in the area West of Finger 4.

It is very important to understand that these deployments from both sides are non-tactical in nature and more inclined towards an administrative deployment for accommodating troops temporarily.

There were also 'reports' that Chinese had 'captured the heights' along the Line of Actual Control.

This is also far from reality.

In Eastern Ladakh, the operational dynamics is not for 'capturing dominating heights' as attempted in the Line of Control scenario in Kashmir.

In Ladakh, the operations are purely to dominate the Line of Actual Control by patrolling and observation.

Here, the operations are not for an exchange of kinetic means, for which occupation of heights gives a distinct advantage.

Moreover, professionals in any army would know that to capture mountain heights is one of the most complex operations and requires a substantial quantum of troops.

But what is even more complex is to logistically sustain these troops at those heights.

There has been not a single image available which indicates, firstly Chinese troops occupying these heights and more importantly the 'unmistakable logistic supply chain', that is needed for these troops to survive in extremely treacherous terrain and climatic conditions.

It is also interesting to note that as a policy, the Chinese have not resorted to capture of heights for building up their defences anywhere along the Line of Actual Control.

They have only created limited defences for protection of their posts which are located well in depth and much away from the Line of Actual Control.

Another important aspect to understand is the Indian Army's reporting system.

As far as the troops on ground are considered there are no issues of perception or understanding of the Line of Actual Control.

They operate with maps having clear and unambiguous markings of the Line of Actual Control as handed over to them by the previous unit.

During handing taking over between units, the old and the new commanders both physically go on the ground and ratify the markings on the maps with positions on ground, before finally signing the handing taking over documents.

This then is also mandatorily ratified by commanders up the chain.

So, where is the question of hiding the truth?

A Chinese proverb says, 'The beginning of wisdom is calling things by the right names'.

So, let's not make the current crisis in Ladakh as another 'Kargil'.

Just like 'Depsang 2013', 'Chumar 2014' and 'Dokalam 2017', this is 'Pangong Tso 2020'.

Colonel S Dinny (retd) took voluntary retirement from the Indian Army on October 1, 2019 after serving as an infantry officer for about 22 years in which time he was the Commanding Officer of an infantry battalion deployed in the area of Pangong Tso, apart from multiple tenures in the Kashmir Valley, the north east and along the Line of Actual Control.
He has also served as a military observer with the United Nations in Congo.

Production: Aslam Hunani/Rediff.com

 

[Craigs]

He has already lost Nepal to China before the bell being rung for the first round..

Why are you acting like a troll? Sometimes I think your expertise does not extend much beyond that of an infantry soldier whose vision is only limited till the next hill.

Why blame the Nepali commies when the scion of our oldest party is willing to dine with the Chinese when their soldiers were threatening Bhutan. During Indo China war Indian commies were willing to give blood to the chinese soldiers and were eagerly awaiting Mao. Have you seen a more traitorous behavior than that? How do you know that the INC, CPI, AAP cabal is not egging the Nepali commies to take up position like this in the hope that we escalate and then they can claim victim hood and strengthen the Nepali commies?

Sorry the best course of action is to let the Nepali commie dig their own hole and when it is deep enough push them in.

 

[Bhadra]

Why are you acting like a troll? Sometimes I think your expertise does not extend much beyond that of an infantry soldier whose vision is only limited till the next hill.

You have some comprehension problems that you do not understand simple English understanding things upside down. You surely did not have a good sleep.

Your comment is a pre-mediated hammer telling about your deep pain somewhere.

For 74 years Indian military vision has been guided by ground realities and national aims which required soldiers to fight battles from one stone to the other, one pillar to the other, stretched maximum from one hill feature to the other. If ever required to do so that infantryman you are trying to redicule has also captured a country or two while many long visionaries were farting in barracks.

If you wish to rush much beyond the proverbial hill bearing that US flag then go join little pigmy Liddle Harts in NATO theatre who have never fought battles and will never fight one except in their imaginations. You have no place in present ground realities and scheme of things in India except sit in the barracks.

Why blame the Nepali commies when the scion of our oldest party is willing to dine with the Chinese when their soldiers were threatening Bhutan. During Indo China war Indian commies were willing to give blood to the chinese soldiers and were eagerly awaiting Mao. Have you seen a more traitorous behavior than that? How do you know that the INC, CPI, AAP cabal is not egging the Nepali commies to take up position like this in the hope that we escalate and then they can claim victim hood and strengthen the Nepali commies?

I did say that your every word is premeditated and baseless.

If you follow my comments I have been saying what you wrote. Why should I spare a Nepali Commie that has pained you. From very beginning I have been stressing that it is a grand alliance of forces against Modi Not only in Nepal but LAC and elsewhere. You have forgotten Pakistan and Islamic card being a very vital element of this alliance.

Sorry the best course of action is to let the Nepali commie dig their own hole and when it is deep enough push them in.

That is an escapist attitude of huge magnitude. The Commies have established a regime of rebellion from Kathmandu to Karala encompassing parts of Bihar, Jharkhand, Chattisgarh, trijunction of CG, Orriss and Maharashtra. Karnataka and moving south to Kerala. Ever heard of "Red Corridor". Govt Forces are fighting that battle with more than 300 CAPF battalions (infantry like not grand visionary tanks of course) and there too the vision remains bush to bush.

The Nepali Commies must not be allowed to function as a base for Red Corridor.

 

[rock127]

READ MANY TIMES IF NEEDED: CLARIFY YOUR MIND

China has not 'CAPTURED' any Indian territory!​

By Colonel S DINNY (retd)
June 15, 2020

China has not 'CAPTURED' any Indian territory! - Rediff.com

The Chinese have only created limited defences for protection of their posts which are located well in depth and much away from the Line of Actual Control, notes Colonel S Dinny (retd).

m.rediff.com

During the current border crisis between India and China in Eastern Ladakh, there has been an attempt made by some to project a narrative that China has captured Indian territory.

Genuine concerns of every Indian citizen on India's territorial integrity need to be addressed and questions need to be asked.

It is absolutely important that in a democratic country like India, the actions of the armed forces are debated, questioned and if need be criticised vehemently.

However, to quote unknown 'government or army sources' to create a fog of doubt, even while talks are on to resolve the issue, doesn't seem to be with the best of intentions.

The present India-China border crisis in Eastern Ladakh is not another Kargil.

There can be no 'capture' of Indian territory here.

And how can we say that? It is because, 'satellites don't lie' and the 'Indian Army has a time-tested reporting system'.

By now it is clear that troops of the People's Liberation Army and the Indian Army have locked horns in the areas along the Line of Actual Control on the North Bank of Pangong Tso, Galwan Valley and areas in the vicinity of Hot Springs.

The satellite images of these areas during this conflict, available as open source intelligence, brings out some interesting insights.

Along the Galwan Valley and in the areas of Hot Springs, image analysts indicated that both sides have taken close positions opposite each other, but within their own area of Line of Actual Control.

There has not been a single image showing any 'ingress' or 'capture' of Indian territory in these areas

However, in the area between Finger 8 and Finger 4 on the North bank of the Pangong Tso lake, tents have been seen placed by the Chinese.

Indian deployment can also be seen in the area West of Finger 4.

It is very important to understand that these deployments from both sides are non-tactical in nature and more inclined towards an administrative deployment for accommodating troops temporarily.

There were also 'reports' that Chinese had 'captured the heights' along the Line of Actual Control.

This is also far from reality.

In Eastern Ladakh, the operational dynamics is not for 'capturing dominating heights' as attempted in the Line of Control scenario in Kashmir.

In Ladakh, the operations are purely to dominate the Line of Actual Control by patrolling and observation.

Here, the operations are not for an exchange of kinetic means, for which occupation of heights gives a distinct advantage.

Moreover, professionals in any army would know that to capture mountain heights is one of the most complex operations and requires a substantial quantum of troops.

But what is even more complex is to logistically sustain these troops at those heights.

There has been not a single image available which indicates, firstly Chinese troops occupying these heights and more importantly the 'unmistakable logistic supply chain', that is needed for these troops to survive in extremely treacherous terrain and climatic conditions.

It is also interesting to note that as a policy, the Chinese have not resorted to capture of heights for building up their defences anywhere along the Line of Actual Control.

They have only created limited defences for protection of their posts which are located well in depth and much away from the Line of Actual Control.

Another important aspect to understand is the Indian Army's reporting system.

As far as the troops on ground are considered there are no issues of perception or understanding of the Line of Actual Control.

They operate with maps having clear and unambiguous markings of the Line of Actual Control as handed over to them by the previous unit.

During handing taking over between units, the old and the new commanders both physically go on the ground and ratify the markings on the maps with positions on ground, before finally signing the handing taking over documents.

This then is also mandatorily ratified by commanders up the chain.

So, where is the question of hiding the truth?

A Chinese proverb says, 'The beginning of wisdom is calling things by the right names'.

So, let's not make the current crisis in Ladakh as another 'Kargil'.

Just like 'Depsang 2013', 'Chumar 2014' and 'Dokalam 2017', this is 'Pangong Tso 2020'.

Colonel S Dinny (retd) took voluntary retirement from the Indian Army on October 1, 2019 after serving as an infantry officer for about 22 years in which time he was the Commanding Officer of an infantry battalion deployed in the area of Pangong Tso, apart from multiple tenures in the Kashmir Valley, the north east and along the Line of Actual Control.
He has also served as a military observer with the United Nations in Congo.

Production: Aslam Hunani/Rediff.com

Now his article came a bit too late?

On debates and paki chini forums it's already proved and closed that India has lost 3,000,000,000 sq kms of Indian territory.

These Panag and Ajay Shukla types first spread the rumors etc and then it takes others 100 times difficult to counter it.

 

[Bhadra]

Now his article came a bit too late?

On debates and paki chini forums it's already proved and closed that India has lost 3,000,000,000 sq kms of Indian territory.

These Panag and Ajay Shukla types first spread the rumors etc and then it takes others 100 times difficult to counter it.

Sir, I can not say so for Panag but that Shukla has not soldiered even in an inch of that Ladakh. Panag also came there as a general having spent his whole soldiering career inside a BMP somewhere in plains of Punjab or deserts of Thar.

The problems of a place like Ladakh is just incomprehensible unless you have sweated your sweet arse walking on that ground. One requires only step to step vision there and not long visions that measure lost territory in thousands of miles. Coolely forgetting 38000 sq km lost in 1962.

 

[HawkisRight]

Sometimes really feel that the map shows by government is really the same on ground or public ko bewakuf banaya ja raha hai. God please save this country.

Bot alert

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

If things are like you are claiming then do you wish that 3,5 Front War becomes a reality and Chinese objective is achieved. The way you are jumping it seems you want that to become reality tonight.

What does the traditional teaching on braking a bundle of sticks say - break those sticks individually not together? So give a break to your impertinence on calling out on others and castigating them as traitors..

Sirji i dont want a war with Nepal.

But i dont want kadi ninda also.

We must take some steps that hurt their economy like we took against Malaysia and Turkey.

I womt like poor Indians getting killed unnecessarily on border.

 

[fire starter]

Sirji i dont want a war with Nepal.

But i dont want kadi ninda also.

We must take some steps that hurt their economy like we took against Malaysia and Turkey.

I womt like poor Indians getting killed unnecessarily on border.

bro hurting their economy will increase anti India sentiment even more. we already did this during madhesi movement by stopping their essential supplies that's the main reason behind change in sentiment of common nepali people.

 

[HawkisRight]

1 Nepalese citizen killed, 7 SSB men hurt in violence on Indo-Nepal border | Bareilly News - Times of India

The situation is tense on the Indo-Nepal border at Lakhimpur Kheri after Sashastra Seema Bal (SSB) men tried to stop a group of Nepalese citizens from

m.timesofindia.com

Ok so what to do now? People don't understand the complexities of situation and have already started war on this thread without realising ground realities

 

[SavageKing456]

Looks like you are not following this thread. According to few People here Nepal has grabbed iur land Their gorkhas are marching towards Lucknow. Pakistanis coming with their Ghazwa e hind fouj. Sri lanka has just got nukes. China is already here

Lmfao seriously?

 

[Indrajit]

Sirji i dont want a war with Nepal.

But i dont want kadi ninda also.

We must take some steps that hurt their economy like we took against Malaysia and Turkey.

I womt like poor Indians getting killed unnecessarily on border.

Retribution is a dish best served cold. Do anything now and the Nepali populace will rise in support of the government and against India since they will see it as direct attack on their country. Wait a bit, ignore them and then ratchet up the screws, slowly , will be a lot more effective than doing so under media glare.

 

[Indrajit]

1 Nepalese citizen killed, 7 SSB men hurt in violence on Indo-Nepal border | Bareilly News - Times of India

The situation is tense on the Indo-Nepal border at Lakhimpur Kheri after Sashastra Seema Bal (SSB) men tried to stop a group of Nepalese citizens from

m.timesofindia.com

Ok so what to do now? People don't understand the complexities of situation and have already started war on this thread without realising ground realities

This is the Nepali government’s doing, they want an confrontation.

 

[Bhadra]

This is the Nepali government’s doing, they want an confrontation.

KP Sharma Oli wanted Nepal Army to speak against Indian COAS and take further actions. Nepal Army refused.
Now Oli is using more pliable Police force along the border to do his bidding. Nepal police have large numbers of ex Maoist amongst their ranks who were taken in after peace accord some years ago..

Things can be complicated ....

 

[Blue Water Navy]

Why are you acting like a troll? Sometimes I think your expertise does not extend much beyond that of an infantry soldier whose vision is only limited till the next hill.

Why blame the Nepali commies when the scion of our oldest party is willing to dine with the Chinese when their soldiers were threatening Bhutan. During Indo China war Indian commies were willing to give blood to the chinese soldiers and were eagerly awaiting Mao. Have you seen a more traitorous behavior than that? How do you know that the INC, CPI, AAP cabal is not egging the Nepali commies to take up position like this in the hope that we escalate and then they can claim victim hood and strengthen the Nepali commies?

Sorry the best course of action is to let the Nepali commie dig their own hole and when it is deep enough push them in.

Can you explain what do you mean by digging a hole here? What should be our course of action according to you?

 

[muralidon924]

1 Nepalese citizen killed, 7 SSB men hurt in violence on Indo-Nepal border | Bareilly News - Times of India

The situation is tense on the Indo-Nepal border at Lakhimpur Kheri after Sashastra Seema Bal (SSB) men tried to stop a group of Nepalese citizens from

m.timesofindia.com

Ok so what to do now? People don't understand the complexities of situation and have already started war on this thread without realising ground realities

This article is from 2017

 

[HawkisRight]

This article is from 2017

Yes these things happen on border frm both sides that's d point

 

[HawkisRight]

Russia accuses China of espoinage, puts leading Arctic scientist under house arrest- Republic World

Russia has allegedly accused China of espionage despite both the countries enjoying friendly relations over the years. This move comes as the US-China relations continue to deteriorate. A Russian news agency reportedly said that they have found Valery Mitko, President of Russia’s Arctic Academy...

m.republicworld.com

Mod remove if not appropriate for this thread..
Russia accuses China for espionage and puts scientist under house arrest

 

[Bhadra]

LAC talks on, but Army told to act as per need

LAC talks on, but Army told to act as per need

The next round of talks at the Lt General level will happen only after disengagement at Patrolling Points 14, 15 and 17 in the Galwan and Hot Springs region

indianexpress.com

​

The next round of talks at the Lt General level will happen only after disengagement at Patrolling Points 14, 15 and 17 in the Galwan and Hot Springs region

As military and diplomatic talks look to lower tensions along the Line of Actual Control in eastern Ladakh, India will continue to assert its military strength at the field level till it reaches an honourable understanding with China, highly placed government sources have told The Indian Express.

China, sources said, has altered the status quo in the region and brought in additional troops. “We have to demonstrate our strength on the ground. Only then will they come to the talking table,” sources said, adding “there is no need to show aggression, only our strength”. The Indian Army, a top source said, has been given emergency powers to act according to the situation on the ground and assessment.

“Army has been given emergency powers for deployment there as per needs and new situations without looking towards Delhi,” the source said, suggesting that this allows the Army to demonstrate its strength on the ground.

The source also indicated that the next round of talks at the Lt General level will happen only after disengagement at Patrolling Points 14, 15 and 17 in the Galwan and Hot Springs region – on June 6, XIV Corps Commander Lt General Harinder Singh met South Xinjiang Military District Commander Major General Liu Lin at the Chushul-Moldo border point.

Last Saturday, Army chief General MM Naravane said “disengagement” has begun in the Galwan area, and both sides “are disengaging in a phased manner”.

He told reporters in Dehradun that military talks between the two sides have been “very fruitful” and “the situation will keep improving as we go on”.

“We have started from the north, from the area of the Galwan river, where a lot of disengagement has happened.”
General Naravane said that after the June 6 meeting between the Corps Commanders, there have been “a number of meetings at the local level between commanders of equivalent ranks. As a result of this, a lot of disengagement has taken place, and we are hopeful, that through this continued dialogue that we are having, all perceived differences that we have will be set to rest.”

The Army chief did not comment on the situation in Pangong Tso where the faceoff continues on the north bank of the lake.

The Indian establishment is conscious of the change in the ground situation at Pangong Tso. Chinese troops have stopped Indian patrols at Finger 4, eight kilometres west of Finger 8 which India says marks the LAC.

 

[Bhadra]

LAC talks on, but Army told to act as per need
​

At the moment, the establishment believes that this situation has arisen due to differences in perception about the LAC in the region. The Chinese side too, the source said, did not indicate any other motive for this change in status quo during the June 6 military talks.

“If there is any other motive behind this transgression, it was not made obvious during the Lt General level talks. Nor will it be communicated during military level talks,” the source said.

Given this backdrop, the source said, the situation does not warrant political calls for any show of aggression or acts of jingoism. “It’s a sensitive situation and it does not call for any adventurism. China plays at multiple levels. Whether this is about territory or some other ulterior objective, we are still not quite sure,” the source said.

Keeping this in mind, top BJP leaders too have been careful with their choice of words in public remarks.

On Sunday, Defence Minister Rajnath Singh, addressing a virtual rally, said: “While China has expressed the desire to resolve the (LAC) issue through talks, our effort too is to find a solution to the trouble between China and India through talks at the military and diplomatic levels.”

“We will not keep anyone in the dark, neither Parliament nor anyone else. We will disclose everything at an appropriate time,’’ he said, referring to questions being asked by the Opposition Congress on the LAC situation.
“India is no longer a weak nation; its power has increased. But we do not want to use this strength to frighten anyone. It is only to secure our country,” he said.