India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[Bhadra]

1 Recce and Support outfit was equipped. In 2012 itself, budget was allocated for purchase of 443 missiles and 13 NAMICA carriers. It is a given.

Only a failure to pass the muster in the user trial conducted by the said R&S in real conditions resulted in Nag missile iteself being relegated to the proverbial bin for the duration.

The missile is too heavy (at 59 kgs as opposed to 45 kgs aimed for), hence additional rounds needed a separate vehicle to cart it around. The said platforms in use could only carry 6 missiles (authorized 12 missiles for each NAMICA carrier).

That increased the logistics chain of a segment which needs to be highly mobile with smaller logistic tail.

DAC clearance was with AoN on 27 April 2018 for 293 missiles and 13 NAMICA

What is the minimum range of that so-called Nag... and what kind of seeker does it use,,.. has it passed the temperature tests ... ??
Is that acceptable? Is that as per GSQR..??

 

[Satybharat]

Very good information..Bihari style

 

[ladder]

India COMPLETED building a heavy vehicular bridge across the Shyok at the Galwan confluence in the last 2 weeks, when political lackeys were telling us “the Chinese have occupied the heights at the confluence of the Shyok & Galwan... its a second Kargil” #LadakhTension

Most probably double lane Bailey bridge from GRSE.

GRSE working on double-lane bailey bridges for Army

Research and development is also underway for 30-feet long portable bridges, which soldiers can carry in parts on their shoulders, Rear Admiral (retd) V K Saxena, Chairman and Managing Director of GRSE, said.

m.economictimes.com

 

[Bhadra]

Gen (R) VK Singh is tasked with all the breakneck road-building in Ladakh. He will finish 50 years of necessary infra work in 5 weeks.

That is something to Cheer ... He will do it ... but again Sibu Soren types of obstacles .... ??

 

[samsaptaka]

Wrote a long, redundant post but lost it so, anyways, short question to @Hellfire Saar.
Where do you feel the fate of territory lost heading?
Will the coming decades show us a war for the slow Chinese push to end it once and for all?
A classic "Sau Sonaar ki, ek lohaar ki" or are we so deep down the rabbit hole that the Chinese can act freely like they did here, violating treaties with impunity?

I often wonder about what you said, and it's always a joy to see your thoughts put in words by other people who don't know you at all.
This is probably the only reason I'll always err on the pro-war side.
Some traits and sentiments can never be inculcated without war and with rhetoric in an otherwise oblivious era of prosperity. A war weary crowd is still far, far dangerous and motivated than a nationalistic but divided society like ours because they'll do everything to never be caught on the backfoot, costs be damned.

USSR failed and Russia nearly collapsed into an economic hole it still hasn't recovered from, yet today, when Putin says "We'll rise to our former glory", it gives a cold sweat to the paper pushers in pentagon, no matter how unlikely it may seem, with a barely one percent growth an year and a demography that is from all estimates, dying out of old age and lack of youth.

On the other hand, if Modi or any other Indian leader reminisces on the return of the "Sone ki Chiriya" (bird of gold) status of India, there'll be some heartless applause and an inner smirk by our rivals.
No one believes India to be a threat other than this hellhole (even by third world standards) which literally was formed by *gasp* snatching our OWN DAMN TERRITORY and even they have the audacity to START the aggression and end it many a times as well.

Everyone knows that our economic sheen will easily be disrupted by pulling the strings on every Jaichand that breathes in India.
I say, let us slug it out. Let us start a two front war or two point five or every other name you can think of.
Bring the draft for critical skills workers when you run out of them, let internal militias handle the .5 factor of war (never forget success stories of Ikhwans, Salwa Judum etc) and then some. Let everyone go into their own war.
For once, take the fight to them.
Let the nationalistic 20 year old with the whatsapp status of "Indian Army ", the local Abdul puncturewala, the South commie, the one kid who has trouble speaking to strangers, the guy who keeps putting feminine videos on Tik tok, let them all go into the deep just once.
Some will rat out their comrades, some will outright abandon posts, some will turn turncoats, some will run to foreign countries to seek asylum from the "undemocratic coercions", nationalists will turn liberals, liberals will turn nationalists, humanists will become masochist, many will die or be scarred for life, but for once, please, let this society purge itself of this syndrome that I just can't see, but can not unsee either.
To hell with sensibilities if they do nothing but handicap you while the enemy runs amok. To hell with "neutral approach" to "enemy victory or dominance" when you're not going to act on it.

Our damn history is full of literally genocides after genocides with the latest being no more than 30 years ago and we still have the shamelessness to talk of the effectiveness of "sensible approach" and "cool heads".
Let me tell you, the only damn reason we're still here is because of the atrocious high fertility rate we bred with, but there will come a time when you cannot outbreed the threat and it will come soon as you watch the curtains fall on this great, boastful inheritors of Indus Valley 'civilization'.

I'm sorry, but for once, let the people fight the People's Liberation Army and we'll see who liberates whom.
I love the Army, but I seriously doubt the tenets of our Democracy when it restricts the protection of the very things it seeks to bring to the masses. Moments like these make me question if we have price tag on everything and a spine of our own.
If you're to sell the idea of this nation to the people, you better be ready for the customers to own it.
Let us own it.

Sorry for the rant.

TL.DR: I lost it. Sorry about that.

Nicely put mate ! You remind me of the reasons why the kurukshetra war happened - to purge the earth off such people. Perhaps we need one more to purge our nation off jaichands

 

[ezsasa]

That is something to Cheer ... He will do it ... but again Sibu Soren types of obstacles .... ??

Hemant Soren himself came to railway station to send off his workers..


so that’s over now...

 

[HawkisRight]

That is something to Cheer ... He will do it ... but again Sibu Soren types of obstacles .... ??

Soren flagged off migrants to Ladakh today

 

[doreamon]

Can china pose a threat to DBO if they are positioned in finger 4 with artillery etc ? Or is it just the Galwan valley which is pose a risk to this road which happens to be 2km from the road... If that is the case dint india pushed chinese soldiers around may23 in galwan area and after recent talks both armies went back for 2/3 km from their respective position in galwan valley ... So how is it compared to kargil ?

 

[porky_kicker]

1 Recce and Support outfit was equipped. In 2012 itself, budget was allocated for purchase of 443 missiles and 13 NAMICA carriers. It is a given.

Only a failure to pass the muster in the user trial conducted by the said R&S in real conditions resulted in Nag missile iteself being relegated to the proverbial bin for the duration.

The missile is too heavy (at 59 kgs as opposed to 45 kgs aimed for), hence additional rounds needed a separate vehicle to cart it around. The said platforms in use could only carry 6 missiles (authorized 12 missiles for each NAMICA carrier).

That increased the logistics chain of a segment which needs to be highly mobile with smaller logistic tail.

DAC clearance was with AoN on 27 April 2018 for 293 missiles and 13 NAMICA

I read somewhere army asked for 200 m minimum engagement range for nag , and that became a problem for nag . It took a long time for that .

Wish we had own chassis unlike the bmp 2 which is restrictive in terms of internal volume , capabilities etc

 

[Bhadra]

I read somewhere army asked for 200 m minimum engagement range for nag , and that became a problem for nag . It took a long time for that .

Wish we had own chassis unlike the bmp 2 which is restrictive in terms of internal volume , capabilities etc

I doubt they have even achieved 200m/ Last I know of DRDO claiming 450-500m minimum range from earlier 800.

 

[Hellfire]

I read somewhere army asked for 200 m minimum engagement range for nag , and that became a problem for nag . It took a long time for that .

Wish we had own chassis unlike the bmp 2 which is restrictive in terms of internal volume , capabilities etc

Main issue was it was a project that took time as technology took time to mature. Hopefully, Prospina and Helina may be out soon. Otherwise, we are up the proverbial creek ...

 

[Shashank Nayak]

I am not pissed off at any thing.

I merely venture to put forth an unpopular and antagonist view point based on some kind of understanding of the various facets, often at odds with each other.

I do not see much maneuvering room for the GoI, although would love to take the Chinese on over this. I see a dissociation between capability (which we have) and the will (political) of dealing with Chinese.

I was thinking about this for a while.. And the more i think, I am convinced that even if India has/develops the military capability to conquer Gilgit baltistan and Aksai Chin, India will not do so, until it develops the economic and diplomatic heft to withstand the resulting negative ramifications. India benefits economically from its reputation as a status quo power. Acting too soon on capturing GB and aksai Chin, would lead to the west placing a lot more hurdles on the path of India's rise... When India says "Aksai Chin and GB will be ours one day", there is only a smirk from the west. We should see to it that it remains that way, for 20 more years..

 

[ladder]

Chinese Contingency Planning for Regional Hotspots

By Mark R. Cozad

Interesting titbits in the testimony. A good read.

 

[Cartel Boss]

#Nepal Parliament on Saturday unanimously passed a Constitution Amendment Bill putting #Kalapani, #Limpiyadhura and Lipu Lekh in its official map. Minister of Law, Justice and Parliamentary Affairs Shiva Maya Tumbahamphe tabled the bill for discussion. Photos by
@BikramRai0



Nepal is getting very irritating now.

It looks like Nepal is hellbent on giving excuse to India for turning it into a union territory. At this time, I am seriously debating which has higher priority: capture G&B or integrate Nepal.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

It looks like Nepal is hellbent on giving excuse to India for turning it into a union territory. At this time, I am seriously debating which has higher priority: capture G&B or integrate Nepal.

I think the Modi government strategy is to just sit tight.. and let Oli burn himself in time.. We hold the area for 60 years now, so let Nepal go crazy... Talking to Nepal, will only give Beijing an additional lever to put pressure on India. Like Nepal may insist in demilitarization of the disputed area, which would be very harmful to India. Modi knows this, so he wont engage Nepal now... Also, the friendship treaty does not provide any tangible securtiy benefits to India, compared to how much Nepal benefits from it. The fact is Nepal has always tried to balance Indian and Chinese influences so as to widen its own options (Just like India). Tibet is a barren plateau.. So, Nepal will always have greater economic links with India. There is no need for the friendship treaty.. Nepal will naturally seek to balance excessive chinese influence with Indian help and vice versa ... So, I guess GOI is putting the onus on Nepal to escalate.. If Friendship treaty fails.. then good, we can have a relationship based on shared interests..
Below article is worth a read, and tells how Nepal sought help from Qing China to balance out the east Indian Company..

Delhi must focus on India’s relations with Nepal

It should bet that the logic of Nepal’s economic geography, its pursuit of enlightened self-interest, and Kathmandu’s natural balancing politics, will continue to provide a strong framework for India’s future engagement with Nepal.

indianexpress.com

 

[Hellfire]

Arent light tank inconvenient on High altitudes? The engine would needs to be tweaked a little to operate with low oxygen.

Engine performance would be degraded for every vehicle either ways.

A study by DRDO had concluded a loss of 3% of rated power per 1000 feet gain in altitude (if I remember correctly).

I did not get the light tank point. Could you kindly clarify?

 

[indiatester]

But why are we poor in making use of whatever we have .. we are a poor country with very rich bureaucracy and rich politicians. rich police and rich contractors, rich journalist and rich fraudesters like Malaya and Chowksies.. Rich bank managers etc..

The question should be - can we make use of resources that are available the way they can be used. can we coordinate and synergies national efforts like a nation or this nation has been held to ransom y bureaucracy.. Wherever you go whatever you touch is bureaucracy.... Governance has become subservient to bureaucratic interest. We live in a time where bureaucrats refuse to go on posting to NE and anyone who goes there draws allowances more than posting to a foreign country.. where so-called scientist sit on a project for sixty years without any accountability and where own OFB create the largest deficiencies in ammunition.

The issue in this country is not lack of resources but that of governance... we are simply not able to govern well ..

Sir, you sound very bitter about those rich rear ends. I don't ask you to approve of them or even accept them. We still need to keep doing what is necessary to improve our governance. We still live in a democracy, however flawed, and we need to make our franchise count.

That however should not sideline us from utilizing the available resources. We can't deny that the armed forces get reasonable budget. There are reports that IAF's budget allocation is larger than that of entire paki army.
Surely there are enough military minds that ensure that we not only are capable of good defense, but also able to give them a bloody nose in offensive operations.
The Balakot op by IAF and the surgical strikes earlier by IA clearly demonstrate these abilities.
Frankly, even a Brigadier who has thousands under his command can utilize what they already have in terms of resources and men to create tools and solutions they need. If they want something done, they can do it.
Depending on the bureaucracy is just letting go of the command they have to some nonsense.

I will stop here. I've been in corporate sector too long and end up believing we do anything or manipulate anything to get the result we want.

 

[Bhadra]

Very good information..Bihari style

Very very Hilarious video by Khan Sir of Patna running IAS Academy under a banyan tree ..... he says "we can kill Chinese by throwing tiles at them from such a height"... not knowing a tile may cost worth the weight of gold there ...

 

[porky_kicker]

I was thinking about this for a while.. And the more i think, I am convinced that even if India has/develops the military capability to conquer Gilgit baltistan and Aksai Chin, India will not do so, until it develops the economic and diplomatic heft to withstand the resulting negative ramifications. India benefits economically from its reputation as a status quo power. Acting too soon on capturing GB and aksai Chin, would lead to the west placing a lot more hurdles on the path of India's rise... When India says "Aksai Chin and GB will be ours one day", there is only a smirk from the west. We should see to it that it remains that way, for 20 more years..

Plus let me add , Indian population needs to be in sync with Indian aspirations , which currently is not the case . It will take years

Homogeneity of Indians interms of thought process , believes , aims is a prequsite to furthering greater goals , otherwise we will be at risk of fracture , because enemy(s) is not idle nor oblivious to our vulnerabilities and multitude of self interests within the country will clash if things become tough. Can't fight with one hand tied back

Hence why I expound on the need for indian dharmic cultural revitalization . Only homogeneous point which can absorb every diversity into single unifying anchor

 

[HawkisRight]

I think the Modi government strategy is to just sit tight.. and let Oli burn himself in time.. We hold the area for 60 years now, so let Nepal go crazy... Talking to Nepal, will only give Beijing an additional lever to put pressure on India. Like Nepal may insist in demilitarization of the disputed area, which would be very harmful to India. Modi knows this, so he wont engage Nepal now... Also, the friendship treaty does not provide any tangible securtiy benefits to India, compared to how much Nepal benefits from it. The fact is Nepal has always tried to balance Indian and Chinese influences so as to widen its own options (Just like India). Tibet is a barren plateau.. So, Nepal will always have greater economic links with India. There is no need for the friendship treaty.. Nepal will naturally seek to balance excessive chinese influence with Indian help and vice versa ... So, I guess GOI is putting the onus on Nepal to escalate.. If Friendship treaty fails.. then good, we can have a relationship based on shared interests..
Below article is worth a read, and tells how Nepal sought help from Qing China to balance out the east Indian Company..

Delhi must focus on India’s relations with Nepal

It should bet that the logic of Nepal’s economic geography, its pursuit of enlightened self-interest, and Kathmandu’s natural balancing politics, will continue to provide a strong framework for India’s future engagement with Nepal.

indianexpress.com

C RajaMohan is a genius one in very few