India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[Hellfire]

I read somewhere army asked for 200 m minimum engagement range for nag , and that became a problem for nag . It took a long time for that .

Wish we had own chassis unlike the bmp 2 which is restrictive in terms of internal volume , capabilities etc

PS: The 200m I believe may be for the MP-ATGM.

What is the minimum range of that so-called Nag... and what kind of seeker does it use,,.. has it passed the temperature tests ... ??
Is that acceptable? Is that as per GSQR..??

Even though AoN has been accepted and DAC clearance given, the fact that the orders are still not placed and murmurs of issues with the infra-red seeker persist, I am not very sure that our problems of ATGM are likely to be resolved any time early.

 

[AMCA]

That is something to Cheer ... He will do it ... but again Sibu Soren types of obstacles .... ??

Jharkhand CM flags off special train carrying labourers for BRO work in Ladakh

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I hope all guys are enjoying the magic show .

be ready for next show of Modi ji

Welcome to DFI, baba...

 

[Cartel Boss]

This test for HELINA was done in 2019. I think it has been inducted.

---

India test-fired its helicopter-launched version of one of the most-advanced anti-tank weapons from the Odisha coast on Friday.

Helina, the helicopter-launched version of the Nag anti-tank guided missile with a hit range of 7-8 km, was launched from an Army chopper. The weapon system was tested for its full range at 12.55 pm near the Integrated Test Range in Chandipur in Balasore district, defence sources said.

During the trial, the Helina was released smoothly from the launch ..

Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

 

[Bhadra]

PS: The 200m I believe may be for the MP-ATGM.





Even though AoN has been accepted and DAC clearance given, the fact that the orders are still not placed and murmurs of issues with the infra-red seeker persist, I am not very sure that our problems of ATGM are likely to be resolved any time early.

Most of Atk missile the world over has a minimum range of 50-100m. Minimum range has tactical applications. Imagine a Namica deployed on the bank of canal not able to engage an assaulting tank 400-500m away. Then what use is that missile?
Tanks also have the ability to fix a weapon system like Namica at its position. Imagine a tank charging at Namica and when it appears 500m away NAMICAbecomes a dud...500 or 800 m as the minimum range is only acceptable in Helli launched ATGMs.

 

[doreamon]

Most of Atk missile the world over has a minimum range of 50-100m. Minimum range has tactical applications. Imagine a Namica deployed on the bank of canal not able to engage an assaulting tank 400-500m away. Then what use is that missile?
Tanks also have the ability to fix a weapon system like Namica at its position. Imagine a tank charging at Namica and when it appears 500m away NAMICAbecomes a dud...500 or 800 m as the minimum range is only acceptable in Helli launched ATGMs.

thats why we have bought 240 spike from israel . All delivered .

 

[Cartel Boss]

Attack helicopters that are attached to an army unit fly their missions with an objective of providing close air support to ground troops. They will not be firing anti tank missiles from 100Km. These helicopters stay close to the advancing troops they are providing cover for. They will be firing anti tank missiles from within 10km. This is why HELINA's 10km range is adequate.

 

[porky_kicker]

The things I get to read here sometimes is mind blowing

Spike LR which is the analogue to NAG has a minimum engagement range of 200 m

But ironically it failed Indian army desert trials .

400 m engagement range for a vehicle mounted ATGM system can be countered by suitable tactics . The system is mobile hence relocation is not a problem to acquire target at minimum range . Ground targets don't pop up out of thin air , they need to traverse distance to close in . Why let the target close in beyond your weapons minimum target range . The EO on namica can surveil targets at 8km and more . It's a hunter killer configuration . So how come minimum engagement range is a problem .

Artillery guns also relocate inorder to bring targets within range

As for man portable ATGMS , the matter is different , here minimum target range of 200m matters because it is carried by troopers or sf etc , and they cannot relocate easily nor is relocation desired in order to preserve " element of surprise / stealth " .

 

[tarunraju]

That is something to Cheer ... He will do it ... but again Sibu Soren types of obstacles .... ??

Jharkhand isn't the only state that can supply cheap labour. Contractors from all over the country are jumping at the prospect of lucrative emergency works in Ladakh.

 

[FGFAPilot1]

Sir I had given and passed the AFMC exam and interview.
And probably u should know that someone who could crack it and rank amongst the 110 in the country who made it there,sure read the rules prevailing then.
As for living in Lala land..many feel the same about you..Muh Army is the only good thing..rest all are fools!

Seriously I would advise not to bother with @Bhadra. I repeat, he is an intelligent man, let him solve the nation's problems with the Army. I'm sure the Army can do anything and nobody else can solve any problem or take credit for whatever.

On a different note, there are indications or shall I say some rudimentary evidence that the protests in the US as well as in India in these recent times were in fact being orchestrated or at least triggered or fueled by the Chinese, don't ask me how I know this. We were all suspecting this anyway!

Don't know if this has been posted before, but this video contains a good briefing as to the motivations of the PRC in regards to the current situation.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

It looks like Nepal is hellbent on giving excuse to India for turning it into a union territory. At this time, I am seriously debating which has higher priority: capture G&B or integrate Nepal.

Why debate on it? Its the only Hindu country in the world. If its a part of India then all these secular terrori*ts will turn it into a sh*thole.

 

[kaaleshwaar]

Why debate on it? Its the only Hindu country in the world. If its a part of India then all these secular terrori*ts will turn it into a sh*thole.

It isn't anymore Congress made sure of that

 

[Shashank Nayak]

Why debate on it? Its the only Hindu country in the world. If its a part of India then all these secular terrori*ts will turn it into a sh*thole.

Nepalis are comrades now...

 

[Bhadra]

The things I get to read here sometimes is mind blowing

Spike LR which is the analogue to NAG has a minimum engagement range of 200 m

But ironically it failed Indian army desert trials .

400 m engagement range for a vehicle mounted ATGM system can be countered by suitable tactics . The system is mobile hence relocation is not a problem to acquire target at minimum range . Ground targets don't pop up out of thin air , they need to traverse distance to close in . Why let the target close in beyond your weapons minimum target range . The EO on namica can surveil targets at 8km and more . It's a hunter killer configuration . So how come minimum engagement range is a problem .

Artillery guns also relocate inorder to bring targets within range

As for man portable ATGMS , the matter is different , here minimum target range of 200m matters because it is carried by troopers or sf etc , and they cannot relocate easily nor is relocation desired in order to preserve " element of surprise / stealth " .

I do not think India bought SPIke -LR. It has bought a short range version analogous to MP-ATGM with minimum range of 50m.

Probelm with most of DRDO scientists is that they do not try to understand tactics of the weapon under which it is supposed to be used but contrary to that they tray to dictate tactics.

The problems that a tank though may e visible four km away it does not come to target in a straight lines. It comes through terrain which is rarely straight line all visible - there are undulations, hides, folds, curves, dead zones etc of the ground.

Moreover NAMICA is supposed to engage the tank targets from forward zone and then keep leapfrogging backward as they are deployed in tiers of delay lines. Finally coming on to main defenses or flanks which is based on Canals. In this process, NAMICA may at times get outmaneuvered or even bypassed then it has to even fight close battles.

Canals, DCB or minefields is the mainstay. NAMICA is supposed to thicken anti tank fire of the main defences to breakup the assault usually led by tanks. That assault usually begins 500 -600m from canal. It is here your NAG will prove to be a dud.

Another aspect of the minimum range is the dead zone of the missile must be covered up by other weapons. 84mm may not be sufficient for that if dead zone is large.

 

[utubekhiladi]

This guy have done excellent research about current situation in Darbuk and oldie areas. worth a watch. he clearly explains why china is spooked with road building activities on our side

 

[utubekhiladi]

This guy have done excellent research about current situation in Darbuk and oldie areas. worth a watch. he clearly explains why china is spooked with road building activities on our side.

his presentation and explanation is to the point and much better then main stream media

 

[utubekhiladi]

here is another presentation from the same guy. this time he explains operation high rank.

 

[utubekhiladi]

Another video by the same person. this video is little old but explains the stand off in very good perspective

 

[Bhadra]

Chinese whispers In Ladakh: With its land grab, Beijing sends tough message to New Delhi and the world​

Chinese whispers In Ladakh: With its land grab, Beijing sends tough message to New Delhi and the world

The presence of Chinese troops in large numbers in Ladakh since early May has left India wondering. What is China up to? As with earlier border confrontations, a number of interpretations are doing the rounds....

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Chinese signaling and massaging through various sources and channelsis continueing. This article by Kanti Bajpai reveals nothing new but it elaborate the so called Chinese whispers. Dominant themes are :

* China's unease on the abrogation of Article 370 and making Ladakh as union territory. How does that affect the sovereignty of China? China claim to being the third party to dispute now remains limited to Ladakh but India's renewed claims over GB effects Chinese investment on CPEC. Raising this issue fits well with Pakistani interest as well as the interests of dominant opposition in India - Left- Libart Congress Muslim combine with Modi as their target. Action taken by Nepali communist regime is a sure confirmation of this theory.

* The second point is repaet of the first point in different form, DSDBO Road threatens Karakoram highway so vital for CPEC. Chinese and Pakistani conversance around Ladakh and especially SSN is being posed as a threat magnifier.

* Third point is also repeat of known Chinese positions on pressurizing India on international alliances, proximity to US, support to countries opposing China and India membership of WHO and UNSC.

Considering all known issues the hardest and toughest for India to deal with is Chinese activities of land grab and open military challenge that has been posed to India. India's and Modi'd reputation stands to be downsized with this single most factor which India must deal with squarely and frontally.. We definitely are in for a confrontation...

 

[rock127]

Agreed. The thinking within the BJP functionaries I know of, however is:

"We will hold the Chinese in their tracks. If they have taken any land compared to the status quo as of April, we will take that land back by force or go down fighting."

Which means, Modi will not let the Chinese make any territorial advances without a fight. A sincere military attempt will be made to take any lost land back.

The Chinese have made a stab at Modi's very raison d'etre (a nationalist strongman who sees India not as a 70 year old republic but a 7000+ year old civilisation). So a war will be the only way out for Modi. So far, whenever any entity (domestic opposition or foreign powers) called out Modi, they've always got a violent response. Modi is in command of a large military with short supply-lines to the front, and a vast nuclear arsenal. If anyone can bail India out of a situation like this, it's Modi.

Fans of MODI/BJP/Shah are waiting for them do something but they are very tight lipped more than expected. BJP must be knowing that Chini would not sit idle after Art 370 and infra build up by India along Chini border. Many things MUST be going in the underground.

But whatever, there has to be some solid news which has to come out for the public to know. We are a democracy(unfortunately or not) after all. As a nationalistic political party they SHOULD be knowing that public perception is #1 in democracy and this can definitely help them in next elections as well.

Relax fellas @ezsasa @Bhumihar @right wing We all know Modi Govt. isn't afraid of a fight. And now at the present situation it will not hesitate to retaliate. But the thing is chinkis won't fire and most certainly we will not attack first. So, no armed conflict.

So may be we should send some Akhara Pehlwan's with kantiki Gada and beat up Chini until they start using PCL-181?

 

[garg_bharat]

Fans of MODI/BJP/Shah are waiting for them do something but they are very tight lipped more than expected. BJP must be knowing that Chini would not sit idle after Art 370 and infra build up by India along Chini border. Many things MUST be going in the underground.

But whatever, there has to be some solid news which has to come out for the public to know. We are a democracy(unfortunately or not) after all. As a nationalistic political party they SHOULD be knowing that public perception is #1 in democracy and this can definitely help them in next elections as well.



So may be we should send some Akhara Pehlwan's with kantiki Gada and beat up Chini until they start using PCL-181?

View attachment 50053

I prefer working silently. Public attention is diverted due to Covid19. Declaring war has many ramifications including invoking civil defence. Declaring war may cause panic in large cities. This is not the time to start a war.

It is time to prepare for war.

There is no 'local' war with China. Any conflict with China MUST NOT be compared with Pakistan.