India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[LETHALFORCE]

i wish you will be true . but we know its not true.

policy should not be depend on any leader , that should be predefined and well executed by forces

This is probably the boldest moves I have seen India making in recent memory.
All these men and weaponry are not for show we are serious and prepared.

 

[Hellfire]

Isn't the reverse true too
Its not a good position for them either as chinese are holding positions that they anyways claim and we also hold positions which they claim and weren't under us (No man's land)

Theoretically yes. In a democracy.

But they have that advantage.

Or i am missing something here,
China claims till finger 2, we claim till finger 8, we are both stuck between finger 4 & 5, so basically we both are holding positions claimed by both but was No man's land.

Can you divulge if chinese have occupied territory at other places too?

Apart from the well publicized places - nope.

 

[muralidon924]

 

[Abhijeet Dey]

High tension: US Navy deploys massive Aircraft carriers to South China Sea

 

[Bhadra]

On the contrary ITBP gave them good beating.

BTW last time you said to me that they have captured Indian territory, now you are saying it’s neither capture nor occupation. I think you need to chill a bit.

Your point has been registered on ITBP and other issues, now we can leave it on readers. There is no need to answer very query and that too on a continuous complaining mode.

I am saying what entire media and country is saying.. that constables of ITBP were beaten blue and 72 of them were hospitalized.. ... you are saying it is not
Then what is the whole Hungama about ???
If a terroritry is being denied to our troops by preventing their movement I do not what you call that ..
Indians are saying .... Chinese have captured it. Chinee are saying the territory belongs to them...
The end result is a common-sense which you are refusing to accept...
Complaining about ITBP is but natural ... entire country is saying they have not done their job and gifted land at Pengang Tso, Galwan, Gorga, Hot spring and DBO area.
All of that comes in the area of responsibility of ITBP...??
Now what do you want - that I should blame the Indian Army and BSF for it...

You mean no one there has even the courage to own up and accept responsibility... ??? That is too bad..

And who are you to register or not register the complaint not made to you... It is National affair....

I have told a number of times for me the greater issue is the better and efficient management of LAC and coordination amongst all agencies involved in that. The state of affairs with ITBP is well known to all, But you are trying to insist upon defending indefensible and hide open secrets ....

I answered a query on facts and not fancy... I will keep complaining till the situation with respect to the efficient management of LAC does not materialize.. That is my right and I consider that as a duty too. It is you who is constantly complaining..

 

[Hellfire]

Okay sir , I have few questions for you
1- if we have to lose territory then we should atleast fight a war because these salami slicing have been happening since a long time . The biggest one I heard happened in 2012/2013.
2- if GOI doesn't want war then the best way is to test our biggest nuke . It will send the message quite clearly to the Chinese.
3- I always say just abandon any purchase and make only nukes and missiles . Place them on lac itself so there will be no salami slicing.
4- this is what happens when you don't test nukes more than 25kt. Even north Korea have far more advanced weapons than us with bigger missiles. I bet no one want to mess with them.
5- lastly didn't we also occupy some no man land also on 27 may.? Sow what's the problem here.

1. We won't. If we have to fight a war, we won't lose territory if we are willing to go for the long haul. That is one big issue. Our politicians and bureaucrats will have us sue for peace quickly.

2, 3, 4. Don't be a Pakistani fanboy please. My request.

5. Yep. None. But our civil leadership is a bunch of ......

Please answer these questions as clearly as you can old man.

OLD MAN???

 

[right wing]

With all due respect for Hellfire sir..I do not find much logic to this point that our forces taking aggressive positions in Grey area is also our loss,because its our area.
I will humbly give my two points on this.
Claimed area yes,but certainly we did not dominate it earlier...so how is it a loss?
And secondly by that logic any standoff with China is our loss because we claim entire aksai chin while they sit on it.
In my view if both sides continue to hold aggressive positions on varied areas along the earlier so called no man's land..eventual deescalation is bound to happen like earlier times.
And for those blaming or questioning the present govt (congrats keep on doing so,we aren't China)the standoff is continuing for this long only because the people at the top are not bending to consolation prices offered by Beijing.
And Doklam by all sane accounts was a tremendous loss of face for PRC and since then has led to stiffening of stance by all small countries in SE Asia.
No amount of sugar coating that defeat as it having attained CCP objective will take the shame away.

 

[Hellfire]

That surely is not true. They can lose the 60billion trade surplus they have with us to start with.
Militarily, for such a long border, there would surely be positions where we can surprise them with our versions of salami slicing or whatever the military brains have thought of.
Diplomatically, they will ensure they are isolated because of their aggressive actions.

I also don't understand this line of argument where all the initiative and preparation lies with the adversary and we are caught napping. I'm sorry, but I don't think our forces operate at such reactionary level.



There is no "limited war". Its not for them to decide. Any number of events may escalate it . From the punching of a Major to the sinking of some vessels in IOR.

I am not saying that we will crush China or anything as they are clearly ahead in a number of spheres and its in front of our eyes to see. Still expecting us to rollover and die sort of option seems defeatist and shows lack of imagination IMHO.

Politician & Bureaucratic hurdles. Short answer. Will come back on this with a more detailed answer at a later date.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

High tension: US Navy deploys massive Aircraft carriers to South China Sea

One fleet with a single aircraft carrier is enough for entire PLA Navy I believe?!

 

[Hellfire]

Don't mind it

And don't run away

Your presence is always appreciated atleast my me

That doesn't mean I won't bash you if need be ( and obviously I will welcome a quid pro quo )

I came here because few things were going askew with lot of people believing things that are purely imaginary.

Of my own free will.

I always found cuss words and such behaviour counter productive to a healthy discussion .... upto @LurkerBaba to see what level is allowed.

 

[samsaptaka]

Bordering between -1 and 1.

How would you have handled this situation if you were in control ? Fire the first shot ? Fight a limited war, push the chinks back and reverse capture more ? Or do the same thing that the govt is doing now ?

I have at least some faith in the present RM, who is ridiculed for being 'Kadi Ninda' but knows when he needs to act tough while speaking softly. PM is a different man. He won't back out of a fight. But he is not a dictator either.

Good to know...

 

[LETHALFORCE]

One fleet with a single aircraft carrier is enough for entire PLA Navy I believe?!

US has bases all around China and firepower in Guam as well
as OHIO subs patrolling in the pacific.

 

[ezsasa]

in that sense does the Chinese need do the same for their public as well right?
More or less Indian public is aware now since last 1 month that something is not well on Chinese border.That should count i think.

Recall the powerful images of coffins post-pulwama, all of us knew something WILL happen from that point on. This time no such "powerful" messaging so far.

News media has made such a bad habit of high rhetoric on pakistan related things that they have raised the bar on messaging, what indian public is seeing is nothing different from usual pak targetted rhetoric.

 

[Hiranyaksha]

I think India should now conduct series of major nuclear tests after completing necessary border infrastructure. Anything less than that will not work. This is the time to show that we carry biggest swords. Saving India's image for being major power who can resolve its own issue without foreign intervention.

 

[Absolut_Vodka]

Chinese will delay in hopes Pakis start something. A member high ranking military here once
claimed China will fight India down to the last paki.

In current scenario, it won't matter if we start the conflict as China is hated in every corner of the world, not only by govts but ordinary people.

If we attack them with full force, we gain the surprise factor. Just overwhelm them with first wave that they are pushed to a corner, where they are more vulnerable into making mistakes. PLA's chain of command might crumble under sudden casualties and/or loss of territory (wishful thinking but not without reason)

Other option is to wait for some years and then go to conflict where no one in world would care and no tilt towards us.

We are like a hardcore street thug with fight experience, PLA is like shiny 300 pounds bodybuilder out of gym. A fight is more about capacity to absorb blows, anyone can throw punches. This is where our edge lies.

 

[indiatester]

Politician & Bureaucratic hurdles. Short answer. Will come back on this with a more detailed answer at a later date.

Thanks. Would love to hear them.

The reason why I am not convinced with your line of thought was it sort of suggested that
1) The Politicians and bureaucrats have no strategic thought and
2) The armed forces will put our nation in danger because of lack of will from the politicians.

I don't believe either are true. I hope/pray that there are some smart heads holding the reins

 

[LETHALFORCE]

In current scenario, it won't matter if we start the conflict as China is hated in every corner of the world, not only by govts but ordinary people.

If we attack them with full force, we gain the surprise factor. Just overwhelm them with first wave that they are pushed to a corner, where they are more vulnerable into making mistakes. PLA's chain of command might crumble under sudden casualties and/or loss of territory (wishful thinking but not without reason)

Other option is to wait for some years and then go to conflict where no one in world would care and no tilt towards us.

We are like a hardcore street thug with fight experience, PLA is like shiny 300 pounds bodybuilder out of gym. A fight is more about capacity to absorb blows, anyone can throw punches. This is where our edge lies.

Many here do not see the coordination that seems to be happening with other
nations too. Seems we are not alone ?

 

[M.J.K]

Lets say We Attack What Will be the objective If Capture Up-till Finger 8 Why not Tibet

• What Will be the Collateral. Is Indian public mindset ready for 50,000 deaths If Do go offensive
• Do We have Diplomatic support by UNSC members or Our allies or there Logistics supply
• What is are Preparation For attack Do we have Enough Military Capabilities To get Edge Over adversary
• Last But Not the Least What Is the Contingencies In Case our military Failed To achieve the objective With collateral Damage

• We did an offensive once in 1971 and we lost 4000 and in 1962 it is far less so 50k is too high a number.
• In post Covid world ,world cant stand with china even if we initiated it.At least they will stay neutral and sell their weapons.
• The Chinese dint have as much manpower as we do they still do this nuisance every now and then .Sure we can find some place to attack where we can seize an initiative.
• Since we are attacking an adversary believed to be stronger than us even if our gains are marginal militarily the effect on geopolitics will be profound and we would have placed ourselves against Chinese in primary role not a secondary role along US.

 

[Bhadra]

Yeah right.

Still waiting for the military logic instead of the bunkum.

You men military logic of defending Penang Tso with Zu-23, L-70 and. Tangushka. Next military logic would be to suck the water out of the lake. Why do not you keep that logic to yourself and free military out of it.

 

[porky_kicker]

With all due respect for Hellfire sir..I do not find much logic to this point that our forces taking aggressive positions in Grey area is also our loss,because its our area.
I will humbly give my two points on this.
Claimed area yes,but certainly we did not dominate it earlier...so how is it a loss?
And secondly by that logic any standoff with China is our loss because we claim entire aksai chin while they sit on it.
In my view if both sides continue to hold aggressive positions on varied areas along the earlier so called no man's land..eventual deescalation is bound to happen like earlier times.
And for those blaming or questioning the present govt (congrats keep on doing so,we aren't China)the standoff is continuing for this long only because the people at the top are not bending to consolation prices offered by Beijing.
And Doklam by all sane accounts was a tremendous loss of face for PRC and since then has led to stiffening of stance by all small countries in SE Asia.
No amount of sugar coating that defeat as it having attained CCP objective will take the shame away.

Current government has done more that all previous govts combined including the fool vajpayee .

Why do you think most veterans are with the government

Problem is currently we have too much " problems " as a nation

There are 3 parties to this situation who wants to win

1. Government which wants to win
2. Indian national congress which wants to win by any means possible
3. China which wants to win

- self deleted- can't be too explicit