India China LAC & International Border Discussions

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SRao

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Our Plan has to be of shallow thrusts say 5-15km in China to hold territory for bargaining.

We should hit deep for Military attrition & disturbing supply lines through Artillery, SD & Airforce, without trying to hold territory. Use their long supply lines against them.

While defending against counter attacks, on our ground.

If we stand toe to toe with then, only then they will learn sense.
Makes sense. However, given that every successive gvt, Modi included, keeps tom-toming about how we want to live peacefully with China, regardless of what they do, it only gives the Chinese even more reasons to do mischief.

Being docile, reactive, and meek has been elevated to a noble and virtuous art by every gvt.
 

IndianHawk

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Makes sense. However, given that every successive gvt, Modi included, keeps tom-toming about how we want to live peacefully with China, regardless of what they do, it only gives the Chinese even more reasons to do mischief.

Being docile, reactive, and meek has been elevated to a noble and virtuous art by every gvt.
It was Chinese who were proven to be meek and docile by this govt just 2 years ago.
 

Absolut_Vodka

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At least they have provided comforts to troops. Our own side has been sitting on a proposal to provide heated buses for conveyance of troops in Valley. Just because it is not 'authorized' as per policy.

Poor soldiers and officers too travel in buses with no heating in subzero temperatures for hours at a time. The men get it worse as by the time they are billeted in transit camps, it is past 10 pm and the for convoy moves, they have to get up early to get ready. Average wake time till convoys move for men and officers stands at 3 to 3.5 hours and 2.5 to 3 hours respectively. In sub zero temperatures before sun rise.
I have lived in Eastern Europe with temp as low as -20 degree C. My attire was regular Delhi Jacket & Jeans in morning and shorts under blanket in night.

I didn't face any problem. And yes, i have faced winds in those temperatures.

Native women roam around in skirts with cigarettes in hand.
 
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SRao

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I disagree with what Doval said as his point number 1, and which seems to be echoed by many here as well, leading to a great fear psychosis of the Chinese might, and also leading us to complete mortification and inaction. And this is that China's economy is 2-3 times more than India's, and so their defense budget is also likewise. This is not true as far as practicality is concerned!

Would China be able to bring to bear its entire defense budget against India in the event of a war? With so many enemies it has on every border, including mighty ones like US, Taiwan et al, can it really pull all its might to attack India?
Not going to happen. China can only use a fraction of its defense might against India. If we understand this, then China is no longer this HUGE dragaon, with this humongous military might, that will simply roll over India.

For India, Pak is the only other nuisance we have to deal with, in case of a simultaneous 2-front war. So it is likely not such an issue as it is for china with its many enemies.

With this should come the confidence that we can definitely beat the Chinese, or atleast meet them on equal terms. We should stop repeating this "china is X times bigger than India" mindlessly, and brainwash ourselves into believing we are inferior and weak.

Actually, there is a historical lesson that India should learn from! Someone here mentioned that in 1999 India took out all (or most) of its troops from this Pangong area to fight in Kargil (amazingly foolish!), and this gave the chinese a fantastic time to build its roads all the way to F4! Will the chinese do the same with India? Will they move all their forces from other areas to fight India, leaving other flanks weak? I dont think so!
 

SRao

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It was Chinese who were proven to be meek and docile by this govt just 2 years ago.
Yeah, so build on that. Know we are strong and no need to let China build up this narrative that they are superior and we are inferior. Why let them dictate terms? Why try to playdown their actions? We are equal, even superior to the Chinese.
 

ataru09

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I have lived in Eastern Europe with temp as low as -20 degree C. My attire was regular Delhi Jacket & Jeans in morning and shorts under blanket in night.

I didn't face any problem. And yes, i have faced winds in those temperatures.

Native women roam around in skirts with cigarettes in hand.
By regular attire surely you don't mean you went out in those clothes sir? But I agree. Once you get used to it for a few days, -20 ain't too bad as long as you have a decent jacket AND there is no breeze ( important!). At -30 my brain stops functioning properly and the water on the eyes start to freeze.
 

rock127

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You are acting like they reached Delhi . :rofl:
Our gov/military are "doing the needfull".
As for why we cant kick them out , we cant afford an escalation. They are not like Pakistan .
Also :notsure: i don't think there was an intelligence failure like in kargil . They simply moved a few Km in , a big breach of trust .
I guess we building the road was the trigger.
Our infra development along border has really irked them and they want to push around and get past our defenses just to check our current strategies. Whole world already fighting corona with US down and that is a perfect scenario to execute such plan.

Also 370 scrapping has made our position better and another reason why chini have their panties in twist

Chinese are playing a psychological game with us. They hardly have intent to capture territory. Only playing hardball with us because differences in perception on LaC can be utilized as a negotiation tactic in the current situation. The real intention is to prevent India from joining the USA camp as the West tries to pin down China on Corona spread. Second reason is our hard stance on taking back PoK. Probably India was preparing for an operation which China seems to have conveinently stopped for now.
We are always reactive.

This childish standoff from Chini would just fast track India joining some pact with other nations and also beefing up the military infra. Also good timing for launching a self-sufficiency aka Atm Nirbhar Bharat. So overall this standoff is expected to give some positive results. Also the over dependence on Chinese stuff is not good for us. China has only GAINED from us so whether its huge trade imbalance or land stolen.

Yes, we should do this immediately. Our all sacred books depicts Kailash Mansarovar as a prime pilgrimage for hindus. Even, the policing and postal activities were taken care by India from 1919 to 1952 by Indian government and a Postal stamp issued by Maharaja of Jammu Kashmir shows Tibet under control of Maharaja, itself. Though, the authenticity of Postal Stamp is still to be verified.
Right, I still wonder how the hell our Kartarpur is not within Indian territory. It's just few kms from Punjab border and not taken back in 1971. as a result Pakis are exploiting it now under some FAKE bhaichara to Sikhs. Seems like Sikhs got their plan and it's not a huge success as Pakis wanted it to be.

If India doesn't become proactive then you never know Hindus might have to take Visa from pakis to visit even Vaishno-Devi and Amarnath. :dude:

I don't know where we keep getting this false equivalence No countries soldier is equal to 2 or 3 of another country , This is typical paki thinking who used to say our 1 soldier is equal to 10 indian soldiers . Respect the man in uniform irrespective of which country he belongs to like how Indian soldier is ready to defend his motherland so does Chinese soldier who will defend his country . So its simple 1 IA soldier = 1 PLA Soldier .

This is why tech matters , armour , and all the other things comes into play , If Chinese can shoot our soldiers sitting inside MBT why will they send their soldiers on one to one battles ?

We cant keep covering up our shortfall in weapons modernisation simply by saying we have more soldiers .

How many Indian soldiers cant handle a Chinese rocket onslaught ? no one will be able to fight against that with their body and small weapons .
That 1 equal to 100 stuff has more to do with psychology, confidence and will power etc which works well in war.

INTEL & Strategy matters the MOST in any battle and then comes men and machine.

Few thousand Moguls could invade a much larger country and sit there for hundreds of years and even ruled it? How the hell a tiny Britain could rule half the world. There has to be something which can make 1=10. How did some rag tag AK-47 wielding Talibunnies(even if supported by pakis/US) could defeat much larger and technologically advanced Soviets? how could small Sikh Armies take on 10 times Mogul army and beat them.

Dude while your points are right but here we are facing Chinkies not porkies. I think Porki army man to man is better competition than Chinki army. You should also have a look at Rezang la battle which was again fought under tremendous odds. One of the baddest last stands in history.
Exactly as I said above.

Bro, battle of longewala was a ill planned attack by pakistan and there tanks got stuck in sand, this has quite much to do with dumb and wishfull paki leadership and a bit of luck as we got IAF support which scored direct hits on stuck paki tanks, it doesn't happen every time, there were some very close and fiercely fought battles against same pakistani soldiers.
Major chandpuri has to take a decision, we were ill equipped to face paki mechanised infantry, so we either had to flee on foot which meant pakis will easily catch and slaughter the retreating us or use our defensive advantage and try and kill as many as possible as reinforcements were many hours away.
Iaf was able to direct one aircraft to bust paki tanks and this was the game changer.
Its a glorious battle but shouldn't be considered a standard.
We shouldn't underestimate PLA specially when they have a slight advantage in weapons.
Major Kuldip could have easily taken the orders of high command and had enough trucks to carry back 120 odd soldiers much before pakis could attack in night. It was not that we were attacked all of a sudden and fought for our lives. Also the area would have been taken back by India after the war was won and pakis surrendered en masses like pussies. Even if the post was in slight elevation we were still in a HUGE disadvantage of 120 Vs 2500 soldiers with 40 odd tanks. So the decision to take on the enemy and fight was a VERY BRAVE! Even though it can be debated it it was strategic decision or not.

As a result the Longewala is a EPIC battle :india: and always sets an standard that one doesn't need to bogged down just because having some disadvantage. Not every where one can have advantages.

Such battles gives any army in the world to be positive about winning despite being at odds. :clap2:

We shouldn't underestimate PLA specially when they have a slight advantage in weapons.
Their long supply line and inexperience in battle is not a great advantage for them either.

Pakis and Chini are better in Psyops & FALSE propaganda and we have outmatch them.
 

ninja hattori

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just how small actions can make china feel heat,
people were blabbering what app unistall does,
yesterday there was an article on it by GT, now this
Enjoy
 

Absolut_Vodka

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By regular attire surely you don't mean you went out in those clothes sir? But I agree. Once you get used to it for a few days, -20 ain't too bad as long as you have a decent jacket AND there is no breeze ( important!). At -30 my brain stops functioning properly and the water on the eyes start to freeze.
I have seen -30 degree C in night. I only realized my limitations three times

> Ice becomes hard under usually foamy snow and forms a hard block where your shoes can slip if they don't have spikes
> Don't ever eat peppermint candy in those temps and breathe as it can cause chocking of throat due to severe cold.
> I experienced slight frostbite but only once. I just came out of gym fully drenched in sweat and went out back to home.

Other than that, i was okay. But my body loves cold more than heat in summers. So i might had some unfair advantage.
 
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doreamon

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just how small actions can make china feel heat,
people were blabbering what app unistall does,
yesterday there was an article on it by GT, now this
Enjoy
Chinese goods worth about Rs 3,200 crore was sold in diwali 2019 while items worth Rs 8,000 crore were sold in the country during the Diwali 2018 . Now things are more serious . Indeed some items cnt be replaced easily but i am sure these campaigns work . ,

.
 

IndianHawk

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Yeah, so build on that. Know we are strong and no need to let China build up this narrative that they are superior and we are inferior. Why let them dictate terms? Why try to playdown their actions? We are equal, even superior to the Chinese.
LMAO. You think anyone in whole wide world buys Chinese narrative. Lol.
 

SRao

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LMAO. You think anyone in whole wide world buys Chinese narrative. Lol.
Looks like many have, maybe even you- they keep saying how the chinese economy and defense is soo HUGE compared to India, and that we can never catch with them, so better not annoy them, or else. BS, I say.

So, you can L your AO as much as you want.
 
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