India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[ezsasa]

Would love if this was deliberate messaging.
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There was no discussion on China in the virtual summit between India and Australia: Vijay Thakur Singh, MEA Secretary (East)

 

[mokoman]

Above comes across as a bit weak in Math, but yeah, just about.

We are not Poland or a small african nation. What ur talking about is absurd.

We could go into a military alliance with US but that wont help us at border , or a treaty like we had with the soviets,but there is no benefit for USA there.

I think Trump wanted Indian participation in Afghanistan , IA soldiers in Afghanistan . If we did that we could have seen a stronger military support from them . or maybe not.

 

[SRao]

US Troops on Indian border is more than just boots on the ground, it goes against everything Indian establishment have been trying to avoid for a long time, it alters india's defence doctrine to the core.

and please note, keep your arguments limited to merit of your points, do not go into personal attacks.
you have been warned.

*** removed for flame baiting*** Mod

Back to my original thoughts- will 20-50 US troops, "training" together with Indian soldiers, at the borders, be good for us or not. I think they will be good- if we learn to keep all other emotions out of the equation.

 

[Gandaberunda]

We are not Poland or a small african nation. What ur talking about is absurd.

We could go into a military alliance with US but that wont help us at border , or a treaty like we had with the soviets,but there is no benefit for USA there.

I think Trump wanted Indian participation in Afghanistan , IA soldiers in Afghanistan . If we did that we could have seen a stronger military support from them . or maybe not.

No. Trump didn't wanted any IA soldiers in Afghanistan. They are vacating Afghanistan why will he expect IA? Trump wanted India to mediate and help in their fast exit. He even sent envoy to convince us to talk with Taliban directly. This could have served his political agenda but INdia doesn't ally to his thoughts. We look up to our own security and geo political balance of sub continent.

 

[another_armchair]

US troops with Indian troops at the borders is as "military" as it gets. Just provoking some non-orthodox discussion, without people trying to brush it off by raking up ego-centric and emotional, but worthless, issues. Some cool headed thinking, if possible.

Why stop with US troops?

Let's roll out the red carpet for NATO.

Greater the diversity, the better and like you put it, "as military as it gets".

 

[Shashank Nayak]

Why stop with US troops?

Let's roll out the red carpet for NATO.

Greater the diversity, the better.

When the shooting starts.. NATO troops are the first to rush for the exits.. followed by Trump's America... India can do the fighting and shed blood itself. We dont need the US. What we need the US for would be ammunition support (if the war drags on) and diplomatic support in the UN etc..

 

[Shashank Nayak]

Right now we seem to be rolling out the red carpet to the red army. Maybe open up for the Pakis to come in as well. We anyhow seem to be doing a swell job with stopping the terrorists from coming in at will. Been doing a great job for the last several decades, very capably I must add.

Relax ...

 

[Bhadra]

@SRao and I forgot to mention, india has the unique distinction of being hated by both sides of political power in the US. both the Core left & Core right of US hate India to the core, USCIRF is proof of that.

Absolutely correct assessment. Hinduism and Vedic philosophy, lifestyle and belief systems go against the very grains of Left- Libarts as also hardcore Evangelists and white supremacists. Bothe are unable to capture the sapece for themselves.
The core value of Marxist inspired Left -Liberalism as also Christianity is - More and more Yankee dollars. Both can be bought and neutralized. The Chinese understood it and applied their dollar power effectively. It is difficult for left-liberals as also evangelists to escape the dragnet of Chinese money power.

 

[ezsasa]

I have made no personal attacks against you, or anyone else. I am speaking up against the tendency of Indians to rake up irrelevant issues (how was your argument that we haven't learnt from the Brits and rajas relevant in this 21st century?? You think Indians will be so stupid to let 20-50 US troops take over and colonize India? Really? Was it your insinuation that I havent learnt from history? )).

I am speaking up for Indians to start thinking out-of-the-box (keep using this phrase over and over again), and not be bogged down by statements like "goes against everything that Indian establishment have been trying to avoid for a long time". What is so sacred about what we have been trying to follow all these years? Was NAM sacred? It is time we stop being dogmatic, and start being pragmatic.

And be warned yourself- do not try to muzzle free speech and flow of ideas. My posts are my thoughts. No one is asking you to respond. Please feel free to ignore.

Back to my original thoughts- will 20-50 US troops, "training" together with Indian soldiers, at the borders, be good for us or not. I think they will be good- if we learn to keep all other emotions out of the equation.

Just to clarify, you are adding "Training" angle now.

So why doesn't India invite say 20-30 US troops to join them at that ITBP base camp west of Finger 4 on a semi-permanent/rotational basis, and join them on foot patrols?

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Hmmmm looks similar

 

[IndianHawk]

Back to my original thoughts- will 20-50 US troops, "training" together with Indian soldiers, at the borders, be good for us or not. I think they will be good- if we learn to keep all other emotions out of the equation.

What deterrence will few US troops provide which our hundreds of nuke and ICBM can't provide??

Also even Taliban hasn't stopped because of thousands of USA troops patrolling Afghanistan.

 

[SRao]

Just to clarify, you are adding "Training" angle now.

I am only bringing up some thoughts. It doesn't mean I have laid out everything in detail. So if I am bringing out a "new angle" of training now, so yeah, give it a thought. I even brought about a semi-permanent/rotational aspect of US troops presence at the ITBP Base camp west of F4- so that implies some notion of training- like we do in Jharkhand or Kerala or Assam during Yudh Abhyas and such. Why not a Yudh Abhyas in Finger 4, albiet at a toned-down level- foot patrolling exercises?

I seriously think the the chinese will think twice before confronting such a patrol.

Having said all this, I somehow feel that we have lost control of F4-F8, and will not be seeing any more such patrols for a long, long time. Areas from F1-F4 got saved thanks to that narrow ridge on F4! It is a natural barrier for the chinese to cross and build roads here easily.

Peace.

 

[another_armchair]

What deterrence will few US troops provide which our hundreds of nuke and ICBM can't provide??

Also even Taliban hasn't stopped because of thousands of USA troops patrolling Afghanistan.

Brown coolie mentality.
Needs presence of gora masters to motivate troops and pull off the unthinkable.

 

[another_armchair]

If you can't stomach it, report it or delete it. Ye sahi hai

 

[LETHALFORCE]

We are not Poland or a small african nation. What ur talking about is absurd.

We could go into a military alliance with US but that wont help us at border , or a treaty like we had with the soviets,but there is no benefit for USA there.

It can provide india access to US and allies intelligence satellites and top of the line weaponry.
There are major benefits for USA to support India against China. CPEC and belt road/silk road
all run thru our territory. If China succeeds it will be the end of western trade and strategic route
dominance

 

[ezsasa]

I am only bringing up some thoughts. It doesn't mean I have laid out everything in detail. So if I am bringing out a "new angle" of training now, so yeah, give it a thought. I even brought about a semi-permanent/rotational aspect of US troops presence at the ITBP Base camp west of F4- so that implies some notion of training- like we do in Jharkhand or Kerala or Assam during Yudh Abhyas and such. Why not a Yudh Abhyas in Finger 4, albiet at a toned-down level- foot patrolling exercises?

I seriously think the the chinese will think twice before confronting such a patrol.

Having said all this, I somehow feel that we have lost control of F4-F8, and will not be seeing any more such patrols for a long, long time. Areas from F1-F4 got saved thanks to that narrow ridge on F4! It is a natural barrier for the chinese to cross and build roads here easily.

Peace.

over and above, what i & other members have already mentioned.

Training exercises are not done in Hot zones, just like Yudh abhyas is not conducted in some iraqi US base.
bringing in even "20-25" US troops means, US is actively engaged in this issue.
For CCP, every thing is about perception, Indian & US Troops patrolling together means, CCP is proven right. that India - US are joining hands against CCP. which gives then cause to retaliate somewhere else.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

over and above, what i & other members have already mentioned.

Training exercises are not done in Hot zones, just like Yudh abhyas is not conducted in some iraqi US base.
bringing in even "20-25" US troops means, US is actively engaged in this issue.
For CCP, every thing is about perception, Indian & US Troops patrolling together means, CCP is proven right. that India - US are joining hands against CCP. which gives then cause to retaliate somewhere else.

Even if CCP is right about India -USA forming an anti chinese alliance they cannot do anything.
They formed and alliance with Pakistan against India first.

 

[Bhadra]

Right now we seem to be rolling out the red carpet to the red army. Maybe open up for the Pakis to come in as well. We anyhow seem to be doing a swell job with stopping the terrorists from coming in at will. Been doing a great job for the last several decades, very capably I must add.

I can see your new member status. I can also feel a deep sense of sarcasm in your comment which is uncalled for...

Well, 74 years back when we got independence what were we but a famined, impoverished poor country which had been sucked dry in all aspects by a tiny but powerful bug called England. No industry, no adequate irrigation, no great infrastructure, no great educational institutions no internal cohesion and perfect chaos on all boundaries and borders where all our neighbours were very eager to take the Indian pie.

Look today and what India has been able to achieve in 74 years the countries of Europe and even the USA were not able to achieve even for two centuries. Europeans took almost two hundred years to establish their borders and struggles on the seas. USA had to go through military devastating conflict for unification but India have been able to achieve that and managed to put together such huge diversities to a large extent by firing minimum shots. Such a vast coastline and land borders is not at all a joke. Things could have been better no doubt but things are not so bad either.

China was a country that got independence in the same period but Chinese internal cohesion and frontiers were traditionally stable, have not much of diversity to manage, no internal struggles and no democratic aspirations fulfilling liabilities. But they are still struggling and have Tibet, Xinjiang, Hongkong, Taiwan and SCS at their hands. They still have 50 percent population to be brought above the poverty line. They have gained quite a lot but also lost quite a lot in terms of live values.

In the words of great Madalasa " Do not fret and cry my son, You are the most beautiful creature and the ultimate soul. Stop crying and recognize yourself..."/

There is no reason for your despondency...

 

[ezsasa]

Even if CCP is right about India -USA forming an anti chinese alliance they cannot do anything.
They formed and alliance with Pakistan against India first.

They can do many things:
1) Flame unrest with in India
2) Start beating wardrums
3) Start actively undermining of our economic interests
4) Use pak to open another front.

 

[Gandaberunda]

It can provide india access to US and allies intelligence satellites and top of the line weaponry.
There are major benefits for USA to support India against China. CPEC and belt road/silk road
all run thru our territory. If China succeeds it will be the end of western trade and strategic route
dominance

Our satellites are enough to track chene movements also if war brokers out many countries offer front line weapons... IF US was so concerned regarding CPEC it would have raised objections long back itself. CPEC is doomed to fail and eventually it will