India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[SRao]

why should a sovereign country invite foreign military boots on it’s ground to defend it’s sovereignty?

and what’s the point of history Lessons when people don’t learn from it. Brits too used to settle disputes between rajas, that’s how they gained control over India.

and lastly China is US’s largest trading partner, if you really notice US till now hasn’t taken any permanent action against China in spite of all the posturing. In other words, US hasn’t strategically challenged China yet. If Americans get a favourable deal, they won’t bother China for another decade or two.

20-50 troops in Ladakh etc result in India's "sovereignty" being questioned, and they are going to "defend" India's sovereignty? It is this nature to get worked up, and to rake up irrelevant stuff like the Brits(or the US) will re-colonize India(need to learn our lessons!!), that is not allowing us to think out of the box. Americans are hence really puzzled at this quixotic nature of Indians.

Recent trade agreements where China is forced to buy XX$ yearly from the US is an example where, despite all his flaws, Trump has got the chinese by their balls, and they can do nothing about it but suck it up and play ball. Who would have ever thought US would do this? It was definitely out-of-the-box action from them!

Again, a token presence of US troops will drastically calm down the high-octane activity at the borders. uit India, with its Nehruvian leaders, will peremptorily, without even evaluating the pros and cons, reject any such thought. We are like that only.

 

[ladder]

Chinese will certainly think more before planning any attacks, knowing American lives are at stake, and that it may invite a larger US reaction here or elsewhere. Just imagine in that video where Indian foot patrols were confronting the chinese and pushing them back, if there were a dozen US soldiers present, the dynamics would have been much different. I doubt, e.g., the chinese would dare throw stones, or attack them with barbed wires or sticks with nails. The Americans would just cut them down to size quickly. And the optics would certainly send a strong message to all.

As for India, it is a cheap, and very effective, way to score some brownie points with the US. We already try to do this with many countries in the name of military exercises in different locations in India- make Ladakh/Arunachal/Sikkim borders permanent "sites" for such exercises. I would say this will be a win-win for India and US.

So if I may sum up your argument, let 8ft tall Chini fight 9ft tall Amriki. We 4ft SDRE are incapable only.

 

[SRao]

India cant do much without blasting that ridge at F4 to allow vehicular movement. Because right now, we can only go on foot patrol beyond F4.. and our boys can be easily ambushed..

Chinese are camped in F4. All it takes for them is to place a huge boulder, or barbed wire, on that narrow ridge, or blow it up a bit, and that will stop Indians from ever crossing that ridge. Calm will prevail in f4-f8 for ever- no more Indian patrols will happen.

 

[ezsasa]

why should a sovereign country invite foreign military boots on it’s ground to defend it’s sovereignty?

and what’s the point of history Lessons when people don’t learn from it. Brits too used to settle disputes between rajas, that’s how they gained control over India.

and lastly China is US’s largest trading partner, if you really notice US till now hasn’t taken any permanent action against China in spite of all the posturing. In other words, US hasn’t strategically challenged China yet. If Americans get a favourable deal, they won’t bother China for another decade or two.

@SRao and I forgot to mention, india has the unique distinction of being hated by both sides of political power in the US. both the Core left & Core right of US hate India to the core, USCIRF is proof of that.

 

[Gandaberunda]

Again what I m saying is sequence of events,

if they wanted to interview they could have called dalai lama,

But first of all dalai lama and the president has difference,

Dalai lama is a spiritual leader of Tibetan buddhism sect,

whereas govt in exile is a an administrative post its like u r dealing with a country,

Its not only gun powder that counts as offensive,
if before meeting we can exert pressure through tactics,
and achieve our objectives without war then y we shouldn't?
yes we can say it will not work and all,
but the messaging we always give to world is we tried our best to avoid it,
now war is enforced upon us,
pre war scenario is as important as post war.

I m not talking about how much ITBP is powerful

I m saying the name TIBET in its name itself is recognizing

and showing maps and all is not Indias game.

We first take actions and then present ourselves.

Same thing happened in 1971.

It's laughable that your comparing present situation with pre 71 scenario

 

[ezsasa]

20-50 troops in Ladakh etc result in India's "sovereignty" being questioned, and they are going to "defend" India's sovereignty? It is this nature to get worked up, and to rake up irrelevant stuff like the Brits(or the US) will re-colonize India(need to learn our lessons!!), that is not allowing us to think out of the box. Americans are hence really puzzled at this quixotic nature of Indians.

Recent trade agreements where China is forced to buy XX$ yearly from the US is an example where, despite all his flaws, Trump has got the chinese by their balls, and they can do nothing about it but suck it up and play ball. Who would have ever thought US would do this? It was definitely out-of-the-box action from them!

Again, a token presence of US troops will drastically calm down the high-octane activity at the borders. uit India, with its Nehruvian leaders, will peremptorily, without even evaluating the pros and cons, reject any such thought. We are like that only.

let’s take these non-military points up in another thread. I am sure many members have points to contribute on this topic.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Army guys just chillin' while ITBP deals with Chene troops

Holy fuck!!!

They put a RR unit to LAC?

RR toh kacha chaba jayenge chini ko...dakar bhi nhi marenge!!

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Holy fuck!!!

They put a RR unit to LAC?

RR toh kacha chaba jayenge chini ko...dakar bhi nhi marenge!!

Plus the photo is scary like fuck.

I believe in body language a lot.

The pic shows the RR jawans very casual and Chinis looking at them.

Even they know guys in 2 different camo..with the one behind chilling mean business and are elites.

 

[Gandaberunda]

Chinese are camped in F4. All it takes for them is to place a huge boulder, or barbed wire, on that narrow ridge, or blow it up a bit, and that will stop Indians from ever crossing that ridge. Calm will prevail in f4-f8 for ever- no more Indian patrols will happen.

We can by pass that ridge by patrol boats and land on eastern side of F4 easily... Only will of govt matters

 

[SRao]

let’s take these non-military points up in another thread. I am sure many members have points to contribute on this topic.

US troops with Indian troops at the borders is as "military" as it gets. Just provoking some non-orthodox discussion, without people trying to brush it off by raking up ego-centric and emotional, but worthless, issues. Some cool headed thinking, if possible.

 

[SRao]

So if I may sum up your argument, let 8ft tall Chini fight 9ft tall Amriki. We 4ft SDRE are incapable only.

Above comes across as a bit weak in Math, but yeah, just about.

 

[SavageKing456]

 

[Gandaberunda]

20-50 troops in Ladakh etc result in India's "sovereignty" being questioned, and they are going to "defend" India's sovereignty? It is this nature to get worked up, and to rake up irrelevant stuff like the Brits(or the US) will re-colonize India(need to learn our lessons!!), that is not allowing us to think out of the box. Americans are hence really puzzled at this quixotic nature of Indians.

Recent trade agreements where China is forced to buy XX$ yearly from the US is an example where, despite all his flaws, Trump has got the chinese by their balls, and they can do nothing about it but suck it up and play ball. Who would have ever thought US would do this? It was definitely out-of-the-box action from them!

Again, a token presence of US troops will drastically calm down the high-octane activity at the borders. uit India, with its Nehruvian leaders, will peremptorily, without even evaluating the pros and cons, reject any such thought. We are like that only.

There is no doubt on military. Indian troops will overwhelm Chinese and beat them black n blue if free hand is given. Disappointing is leadership. Recently in Sikkim Chinese CO was punched on nose for blabbering and end result the Junior commander was pulled out of deployment fearing further escalation.this happened in recognised IB and imagine what happens at LAC. This pussy footing has cost us dearly over the years... we have to change our defensive approach and thought process!

 

[ezsasa]

US troops with Indian troops at the borders is as "military" as it gets. Just provoking some non-orthodox discussion, without people trying to brush it off by raking up ego-centric and emotional, but worthless, issues. Some cool headed thinking, if possible.

US Troops on Indian border is more than just boots on the ground, it goes against everything Indian establishment have been trying to avoid for a long time, it alters india's defence doctrine to the core.

and please note, keep your arguments limited to merit of your points, do not go into personal attacks.
you have been warned.

 

[Bhadra]

some interesting news,

Suddenly,


The news is a buzz with Tibet president in exile, interviews across many news platforms of INDIA and that too exclusive ones.

on aaj tak

on news x
on ani

Previously govts didn't even used to attend ceremonies with dalai lama.

and now when this is happening be sure that Indian govt has tossed the policy of ONE CHINA for sure

Fingers crossed something major is cooking up.

Seems the wishlist of DFI is getting enacted at a rapid pace

That is a good and interesting development.
If China can protect Hafiz Sayid from blacklisting in the internationalist Forum, India openly not raising Tibet issue is a sound policy.

DFI must highlight the Tibet issue more prominently.

At Macro level the issue has been killed by Nehru's recognition of Tibet as TAR and part of China. All British treaties and agreement with China had always been focused on the issue that China will not capture Tibet.

If that fundamental British - China agreement was abandoned by Nehru then India actually looses the moral high ground to ask China to honour India China and India - Tibet agreements,

That was such a monumental mistake. CCP and PLA combined were always politico-military organisation who won a nation with "the barrels of guns". Nehru, on the other hand, was a compromised appointed politician who was transferred power as a colonial gift by the British masters. He neither understood diplomacy or military power. The consequences are being suffered by Indian generations.

 

[Gandaberunda]

That is a good and interesting development.
If China can protect Hafiz Sayid from blacklisting in the internationalist Forum, India openly not raising Tibet issue is a sound policy.

DFI must highlight the Tibet issue more prominently.

At Macro level the issue has been killed by Nehru's recognition of Tibet as TAR and part of China. All British treaties and agreement with China had always been focused on the issue that China will not capture Tibet.

If that fundamental British - China agreement was abandoned by Nehru then India actually looses the moral high ground to ask China to honour India China and India - Tibet agreements,

That was such a monumental mistake. CCP and PLA combined were always politico-military organisation who won a nation with "the barrels of guns". Nehru, on the other hand, was a compromised appointed politician who was transferred power as a colonial gift by the British masters. He neither understood diplomacy or military power. The consequences are being suffered by Indian generations.

We can reverse it anytime if Govt is serious wrt chene... There is no one stopping this govt to do so if that is so problematic!

 

[Shashank Nayak]

That 2 km is said to be Indian Territory which they encroached and we moved back 1km in our own territory! What kind of back tracking is this?

Calm down.. All chinese intruders were already out of the galwan valley (You can see that from sat images in part 2 of Abhijit iyer mitra's 3 part series ).. The retreat I suppose, refers to their buildup on their side of the LAC..

 

[Gandaberunda]

Calm down.. All chinese intruders were already out of the galwan valley (You can see that in part 2 of Abhijit iyer mitra's 3 part series ).. The retreat I suppose, refers to their buildup on their side of the LAC..

There is no point of retreating in own territory! Then what's up with hue and cry! There is no meaning for meetings if build up is on own respective territory. There was a huge build up after Feb 27 on both sides did we had meetings over meetings for build up?

 

[ladder]

There is no point of retreating in own territory! Then what's up with hue and cry! There is no meaning for meetings if build up is on own respective territory. There was a huge build up after Feb 27 on both sides did we had meetings over meetings for build up?

Some media outlets have said, meeting agenda doesn't include the Galwan situation.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

There is no point of retreating in own territory! Then what's up with hue and cry! There is no meaning for meetings if build up is on own respective territory. There was a huge build up after Feb 27 on both sides did we had meetings over meetings for build up?

India wants PLA to move away from the LAC, as that would make DSDBO road more secure.. And the Chinese are falling in line..