India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[Gandaberunda]

If satellite images actually shown nothing, what’s all the noise then about. Something is happening there, the exact nature of which we simply don’t know with any clarity.

I guess the whole situation was earlier exaggerated and blown out of proportion now it's really become complicated and serious. PLA to maintain status quo wanted to disrupt infra construction on our side tried to intimidate us by trespassing or few metres ingress and ITBP stopped them further and pushed back. This didn't got well with PLA and beefed up troops and IA mirrored them. Now both troops mirroring development and sitting looking at each other on their respective side of LAC. PLA had planned this over years to lay claim on Galwan when India started infra build up ( they have made whole ladhak miniature models execute plan). PLA is taken back by aggressive build up of IA troops and now they're trapped to swallow pride and retract respectfully or get beaten and lose face...

 

[Hijibiji]

I guess the whole situation was earlier exaggerated and blown out of proportion now it's really become complicated and serious. PLA to maintain status quo wanted to disrupt infra construction on our side tried to intimidate us by trespassing or few metres ingress and ITBP stopped them further and pushed back. This didn't got well with PLA and beefed up troops and IA mirrored them. Now both troops mirroring development and sitting looking at each other on their respective side of LAC. PLA had planned this over years to lay claim on Galwan when India started infra build up ( they have made whole ladhak miniature models execute plan). PLA is taken back by aggressive build up of IA troops and now they're trapped to swallow pride and retract respectfully or get beaten and lose face...

So, in "happy path scenario", now the two sides can stay put there staring at each other (along with more buildups if necessary) till winter comes to send them back? If that's the case, the "diplomats" would give credit to diplomacy but not winter from mother nature and build-up by ITBP/ Army/ Air force i guess

(I am not inclined to speculate on unhappy path scenarios as of now)

 

[vampyrbladez]

This standoff will go on for a long time.

 

[Brood Father]

are there apps which can identify chinese products, companies, softwares/Apps ?

Try this..
PS. Have not used personally so cannot verify the news

 

[ezsasa]

I guess the whole situation was earlier exaggerated and blown out of proportion now it's really become complicated and serious. PLA to maintain status quo wanted to disrupt infra construction on our side tried to intimidate us by trespassing or few metres ingress and ITBP stopped them further and pushed back. This didn't got well with PLA and beefed up troops and IA mirrored them. Now both troops mirroring development and sitting looking at each other on their respective side of LAC. PLA had planned this over years to lay claim on Galwan when India started infra build up ( they have made whole ladhak miniature models execute plan). PLA is taken back by aggressive build up of IA troops and now they're trapped to swallow pride and retract respectfully or get beaten and lose face...

Everything is blown out of proportion by Indian media, so that’s not surprising.

but this time blowing out of proportion was justified because of the times we live in right now, global pandemic and all.

as long as road construction is continued, it’s a win for us.

If infra construction can be completed by next year at instead of 2022, it would be even better.

now that many infra projects have stopped in rest of India, finding an extra 10-15000 crores should not be hard, so that BRO can invest in more manpower and complete projects one year ahead of schedule.

Now that would a big Middle finger that India can show to CCP, for creating this fuss in the first place.

Chinese don’t understand words, they only understand actions. I say completing projects one year ahead of schedule is a nice response.

 

[nrj]

Seeming without apparent logic is no logic. Why should anyone has a "personal" dislike when personalities are not involved.

Pointing out facts has no lows or highs. Diplomacy is a way of conducting relations between two states and by no way is the monopoly of accredited foreign office mandarins. China amassing troops on Indian border is conduct of Diplomacy militarily. USA imposing sanctions on China is a way of conducting diplomacy economically. However, as per Indian system, everything is conducted by the bureaucrat who is called "Diplomat" since the file belongs to him.

India is suffering due to inadequacy and artificial nature of Indian Diplomacy particularly with respect to China for the last 75 years . You might be aware of the aftermath of great Indian Diplomatic coup of "Panchsheel" how China did sheel-bhanga on all accounts. Now we are witnessing Sheel- Bhanga of the five agreements signed post 1986 (BPTA) all over Ladakh specially in Galwan valley.

Can you give me an example of Chinese withdrawing from their advance line as a result of diplomacy.

Soon there would be a negotiation between India and China. Forcing India to Negotiation table itself is the Chinese diplomatic victory achieved by PLA not by their diplomats. Let me see how many Indian generals will be on the table. I can assure you with a guarantee that PLA Generals would invariably be there.

You are glorifying an Indian institution that tuned themselves as the administrator of NEFA and have been directing military affairs on LAC even today. LAC Management by ITBP but not under command Army is their cup of soup. They are the dominant partner in the game.. results are in front.

I really do not know why everyone in India - IAS, IPS, Foreign Service, Journalists have a strong desire to play generals and then screw it up ...

Prove me wrong...

No reason to prove you wrong. You believe Indian security establishment is ineffective & Govt is engaged in fool's errand. No reason to further moot the virtues of dialogues & diplomacy in resolving conflicts. Not the first time someone has promoted stick over statecraft. It isn't one for another, and dualistic lens is totally unnecessary.

I am happy that there are clearly able, cool-headed people running the Govt & China conflict.

And unlike Pakistan or China, Indian armed forces are under the command of elected administration; that is a fact never to be ignored. And yes when it comes to negotiation or any inter-state dialogue, it ought to be led by appointed representatives of Govt of India. We are not Pakistan to let Army take over the state affairs.

 

[Jailor]

The GoI is downplaying. Strange. If they come out in public, there will be a massive backing for their decisions here on.

So, much speculation, so many if's and but's, in fact this whole thread is based on posters imagination of things happening or things that might happen.
Here falcon the usual buzz kill is talking about getting public ready for initiating military action.

Only government can provide facts, and i for one do not want to pressure government into announcing anything or taking public into confidence as of yet, they can do it in their own time.

 

[Gandaberunda]

Everything is blown out of proportion by Indian media, so that’s not surprising.

but this time blowing out of proportion was justified because of the times we live in right now, global pandemic and all.

as long as road construction is continued, it’s a win for us.

If infra construction can be completed by next year at instead of 2022, it would be even better.

now that many infra projects have stopped in rest of India, finding an extra 10-15000 crores should not be hard, so that BRO can invest in more manpower and complete projects one year ahead of schedule.

Now that would a big Middle finger that India can show to CCP, for creating this fuss in the first place.

Chinese don’t understand words, they only understand actions. I say completing projects one year ahead of schedule is a nice response.

Actually BRO is doing swift work... One tunnel is completed 3 months earlier than estimated. Also BRO has sufficient budget. The concern here is of MoD babus... Babus must show some spine and make Chinese bitches in these kind of skirmish whether it's serious or not. Today Kadi ninda interview looked like a scared coward speaking. All these construction will be vain if babus doesn't stand up! Army is ready infra is catching up but bureaucrats diplomats and MoD is same fear mongering and shivering ( not expected at this trying time when whole world is against china)

 

[Skyh3ck]

Why don't india claim region including Kailash Mountain, we have for thousands years of records in our culture and literature..

We gave away the holiest land of sindhu to Pakistan.. Kailash to China...

 

[ezsasa]

Actually BRO is doing swift work... One tunnel is completed 3 months earlier than estimated. Also BRO has sufficient budget. The concern here is of MoD babus... Babus must show some spine and make Chinese bitches in these kind of skirmish whether it's serious or not. Today Kadi ninda interview looked like a scared coward speaking. All these construction will be vain if babus doesn't stand up! Army is ready infra is catching up but bureaucrats diplomats and MoD is same fear mongering and shivering ( not expected at this trying time when whole world is against china)

Post a link of the interview, if possible.

 

[IndiaRising]

This standoff will go on for a long time.

again quoting “sources”.... this is the problem with media. They quote these unnamed sources and somehow we the public have to believe every single thing they say.

Even I can act as a source by this standard. Recently, I found out Modi eats idli sambhar for breakfast instead of dhokla. Now find a journalist Who can use me as a “source”.

 

[vampyrbladez]

again quoting “sources”.... this is the problem with media. They quote these unnamed sources and somehow we the public have to believe every single thing they say.

Even I can act as a source by this standard. Recently, I found out Modi eats idli sambhar for breakfast instead of dhokla. Now find a journalist Who can use me as a “source”.

OSINT shows Chinese blacktopping roads near finger 4-5. This shows that standoff may continue till winter.

IA's speed has blunted and surprised them. They know that they will suffer eye watering
casualties if they try to fight us. Mountains are horrible for an offensive action.

IAF is also ready to fight. PLAAF has no nearby airbases except for one and then none for 400km.

IN will turn Indian Ocean into PLAN's graveyard reef.

Indian industry will takeover their jobs and manufacturing.

Only Indian public needs to cooperate. Help the rest.

 

[Bhadra]

No reason to prove you wrong. You believe Indian security establishment is ineffective & Govt is engaged in fool's errand. No reason to further moot the virtues of dialogues & diplomacy in resolving conflicts. Not the first time someone has promoted stick over statecraft. It isn't one for another, and dualistic lens is totally unnecessary.

I am happy that there are clearly able, cool-headed people running the Govt & China conflict.

And unlike Pakistan or China, Indian armed forces are under the command of elected administration; that is a fact never to be ignored. And yes when it comes to negotiation or any inter-state dialogue, it ought to be led by appointed representatives of Govt of India. We are not Pakistan to let Army take over state affairs.

We were in conversation on the specifics of diplomacy as conducted by Indian State or by Indian Bureaucratic diplomates in the name of "we the people of India" but rarely for the people of India. I gave numerous examples but you are responding with Hans Morgenthau lectures on diplomacy.

You have also advanced a strange oligarchic definition of Indian Democracy wherein you say the Armed Forces are not an organ of the state to conduct diplomacy. All countries of the world irrespective of their political system including some great democracies consider Military as an essential component of diplomacy. Even the constitution of India does not give any exclusive right to any bureaucracy in any exclusive field. But you seem to be insisting on it.

That is the single biggest misfortune of India where bureaucracy has appointed itself as state and the govt. I humbly submit that none of my statements are bereft of the dirty reality of Indian polity.

I am also aware that such discussions usually end up Indian bureaucrats trying to show the general their place but the generals know that their place amongst people of India is at such a high pedestal that a bureaucrat can not even dream of.

 

[doreamon]

Not our job to make unnecessary political statements: Nepal Army

The Nepal Army on Friday said it was not its job to make “unnecessary political statements” or respond to the loaded queries from the media. It was responding to reports that its chief had refused the direct orders of Prime Minister KPS Oli on Indian Army chief Gen. Manoj Naravane’s recent comments on border issue.

“Nepal Army does function well within the parameters of the constitution, and maintains its glorious tradition of discipline, restrain and accountability and respect towards the highest executive office in the country,”it said in a statement.

The clarification came after it was reported that when he was asked by Mr. Oli to respond to Gen. Naravane’s comments, Gen. PC Thapa had said, ‘No thanks’.

Two weeks back, speaking on Nepal’s objections to the new road through the Lipulekh pass upto the Line of Actual Control (LAC) to shorten travel time for Kailash-Mansarovar pilgrimage, Gen. Naravane said there was no “contradiction at all” and Nepal may have raised the issue “at the behest of someone else.”

Last week, Nepal's Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Ishwor Pokhrel said the Indian Army chief's comments on the Kalapani dispute were “condemnable” and had hurt the sentiments of the Nepali Gurkhas who have a long tradition of sacrifice for India. He also said the Nepal army would fight if necessary.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

The GoI is downplaying. Strange. If they come out in public, there will be a massive backing for their decisions here on.

So, much speculation, so many if's and but's, in fact this whole thread is based on posters imagination of things happening or things that might happen.
Here falcon the usual buzz kill is talking about getting public ready for initiating military action.

Only government can provide facts, and i for one do not want to pressure government into announcing anything or taking public into confidence as of yet, they can do it in their own time.

GOI is looking very weak. Kadi Ninda does not even have guts to do Ninda.

Ajai Shukla, Vishnu Som, Sourav Jha (& others) are sticking to their positions that there is change in Ground positions. For Eg. Are Indian soldiers able to patrol upto Finger 8 as earlier? They are imputing that forget neutral area, some posts have been captured by Chinese.

 

[Gandaberunda]

Why don't india claim region including Kailash Mountain, we have for thousands years of records in our culture and literature..

We gave away the holiest land of sindhu to Pakistan.. Kailash to China...

Rajnath Singh in interview he is sounding like a lost general and hum kisiko ankh Nahi dikha sakte and you are expecting to claim Kailash

Post a link of the interview, if possible.

 

[freethinker777]

War is inevitable.if not today then tomorrow. India needs to form alliance for that if not formal then informal. Pakistan has alliance with China. If we attack Pak , China will jump in war.if we attack China , Pak jumps in. If NATO offers to join India should become NATO member . There is no point procrastinating things. Tomorrow if non bjp govt is at helm or other youger bjp leaders ascend to power, things might not be so favourable.today is the time for war. Right person is in the seat of power and in sound health. Global powers willing to lend support. Today is time to go to war and sort things for long time. At least 50 years of peace

 

[Bhadra]

Everything is blown out of proportion by Indian media, so that’s not surprising.

but this time blowing out of proportion was justified because of the times we live in right now, global pandemic and all.

as long as road construction is continued, it’s a win for us.

If infra construction can be completed by next year at instead of 2022, it would be even better.

now that many infra projects have stopped in rest of India, finding an extra 10-15000 crores should not be hard, so that BRO can invest in more manpower and complete projects one year ahead of schedule.

Now that would a big Middle finger that India can show to CCP, for creating this fuss in the first place.

Chinese don’t understand words, they only understand actions. I say completing projects one year ahead of schedule is a nice response.

The project was to be completed y 2017 but for a unimaginative planning of road by the river bed.
The biggest impediment would be the large labor force and collecting them to be taken to Ladakh.
All road stretches are fine except Galwan where the Chinese seem to have dug down only about 4 km away from the road. That will be a big threat to the road. There is no other way but to do a Lungrola on Chinese and look done/stare down at them..

 

[scatterStorm]

I am just gonna post here some videos back when PLA were doing war exercise in Tibet. The 6x6 we saw earlier in twitter... its an guided MLRS.

 

[Gautam Sarkar]

This ...........