India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[utubekhiladi]

THIS GUY IS INCURABLE WHEN DID WE PULL OUT!!!

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his lies has been exposed by others too... even if modi gives xi jinping head on a platter, these morons will still complain..

If he is flaming India china war then I actually support him despite his obvious false reporting.

We need india china trade to completely stop. He is the useful idiot to help in that objective.

No, he is a snake who will then twist on the other side of the argument. He must be rejected banned and thrown in the dustbin. People have forgotten the count on how many time this Dallal has lied. He is of no use in any situation what so ever.

look, what i found from that snake's tweet

 

[IndianHawk]

Our -
Economy down...
Health sector strained...
Factory floors/ labour force absent...
Covid shutdown ....

Meanwhile -
China wants war...
Porkis want war...
RaGa wants war ...
NDTV wants war...
Shukla wants war ...
US wants war...

I smell something..

Economy is already bouncing back . Unemployed has decreased back to pre lockdown level which means economic activity is restored to pre lockdown level.

Chinese economy took even bigger hit then us and Pakistan is too bankrupt to even care anymore.

Ntdv and Shukla only want to define the whole incident as kargil because they have nothing else against government.

While USA wants to use this to pressure india into alliance on their terms.

But more importantly what does modi wants??

 

[prasadr14]

Ajay Shukla is a vermin.

His own words recorded on camera shatters how own fallacies.
Yet, this fraud has the face to spew his nonsense.

 

[here2where]

Economy is already bouncing back . Unemployed has decreased back to pre lockdown level which means economic activity is restored to pre lockdown level.

Dont want to derail this thread or question the need to kick chink's arses.... but last i heard people are still losing jobs and consumption is way below pre-covid levels.

We can continue this discussion in the indian economy thread, but i find the anti-nationals being so passionate on the war drums at this juncture, more than just coincidence.

 

[Sanglamorre]

Dont want to derail this thread or question the need to kick chink's arses.... but last i heard people are still losing jobs and consumption is way below pre-covid levels.

We can continue this discussion in the indian economy thread, but i find the anti-nationals being so passionate on the war drums at this juncture, more than just coincidence.

It's because they are banking on govt not going to war. They'll use it as weakness. One of the main charges BJP has laid at Congress feet is of cowardice, and they are convinced this is the chance to turn it back on BJP.

 

[cereal killer]

Economy is already bouncing back . Unemployed has decreased back to pre lockdown level which means economic activity is restored to pre lockdown level.

Chinese economy took even bigger hit then us and Pakistan is too bankrupt to even care anymore.

Ntdv and Shukla only want to define the whole incident as kargil because they have nothing else against government.

While USA wants to use this to pressure india into alliance on their terms.

But more importantly what does modi wants??

Nah we are in troubling times as far as economy is concerned & recovery is still not going to easy. Only silver lining is our foreign exchange reserves are still intact. War may drain us further but we have to push the enemy at the gates whatever the cost.

India's economy was hit by the coronavirus lockdown. These charts show how

India implemented strict lockdown measures in late-March, most of which remained in place until the end of May.

www.cnbc.com

 

[prasadr14]

Dont want to derail this thread or question the need to kick chink's arses.... but last i heard people are still losing jobs and consumption is way below pre-covid levels.

We can continue this discussion in the indian economy thread, but i find the anti-nationals being so passionate on the war drums at this juncture, more than just coincidence.

We are better than most countries,
consumption is down across the globe, not just ours..

 

[12arya]

Enemy at the gates, so don’t cry wolf - The Sunday Guardian Live

Learn to master the ancient Indian art of maunvrat. Rinderpest is also more commonly known as the “foot and mouth” disease and in the past, it has

www.sundayguardianlive.com

Enemy at the gates, so don’t cry wolf

Well beyond the rain shadow, the high altitude terrains of Ladakh and Tibet are seeing a tense stand-off between the Indian Army and the PLA. Photo: Shiv Kunal Verma/KaleidoIndia.

Learn to master the ancient Indian art of maunvrat.

Rinderpest is also more commonly known as the “foot and mouth” disease and in the past, it has swept through the subcontinent with catastrophic results. In the last ten-odd days since the tragic loss of 20 Indian soldiers in the icy region of the Galwan Valley to Chinese machinations, one can only watch in mind-numbing amazement as many of our countrymen, some of whom have once donned the uniform and served, have suddenly taken leave of their senses.

Add to this the mushrooming crop of self-styled defence experts and analysts. Just as the Pakistanis at Longewala in 1971 were intercepted, radioing for help as IAF Hawker Hunters decimated their tanks, “ek jata hai toh ek aata hai aur bees-bees minute ooper nachta hai” (as one goes, the other comes and dances around above us for 20 to 40 minutes) we watch equally helplessly as we evolve into a country of professional blabber mouths. From a channel even describing the intake of a certain type of fighter aircraft that had landed at Leh and speculating on what sort of armament it could carry, another was showing satellite maps and pointing out where our tanks were harboured. The presenter was in so much of a breathless hurry to spill even more beans that he was actually running from screen to screen.

In matters relating to national security, the standard response across the globe is “we neither confirm or deny”, and the media by and large self regulates and does not give out any information that can compromise the safety of your own troops, or your own larger interests. However, for Indian journalists, schooled in the desperate need to get “breaking news” and blurting out whatever information they may have, the threat from the Chinese is today secondary to ratings.

This then has been having a cascading effect, getting worse day by day. Soldiers on the ground watch in amazement as their frontlines and assets are being discussed by didactic anchors sitting in far-away studios. Unfortunately, these “reports” fuel a piranha-like frenzy, and more and more teams armed with cameras descend on the area. Those who cannot somehow get to where the action is, then start putting out “human interest” stories, which more often than not, add to the confusion.

If only the same zeal of our reporters could be exported and applied to the Chinese or Pakistani side of the border. Then not only would we know which troops, battalions, companies of the PLA were deployed when and where, we would even soon know the dietary preferences of their previous commanding officers. And since they are the aggressors here, we would have had their plans as soon as they were hatched—though it’s a different matter that we may have still not acted on it. In this cacophony of opinions, it doesn’t take long for the pressure to start building on the entire system. And pressure situations, especially in a democracy like ours, invariably lead to the abandonment of cold reasoning and logic. Statements once made, like the waters of the Galwan or any other river, cannot flow backwards.

Unlike Doklam, in all probability, Galwan is not necessarily the critical point of conflict and may well have been a feint for consolidation in the Pangong Tso or maybe even the Depsang Valley. For that matter, the incidents in Ladakh may all together be an even bigger smokescreen for yet something else. Unfortunately, the Chinese media has not as yet told us what President for Life Xi Jinping or his Communist buddies are thinking. Our intelligence agencies, most of them reporting directly to the highest office in this land, also obviously had no clue. That Military Intelligence had been defanged around 2012 is also one of the strange quirks that ails India, but therein lies another tale.

The Chinese have been intruding, pushing and probing for the last four years. That they are today in the Pangong Tso area, the Galwan River Valley and the Depsang Plains is not something new and these events in the past have been handled by the ITBP and sometimes by the Army. What is interesting this time, apart from the numbers, is the selective playing up of the intrusions by a certain journalist, whose information, though accurate on the ground, seemed aimed at stirring up a hornets’ nest. Given the fact that this person had served in the Army and was extremely well connected through marriages, it has been presumed he got his information from “highly placed inside sources”. Smokescreens are wonderful things—ask any tank man and he’ll tell you how well it works. With all the sophisticated equipment at NTRO’s disposal, it would indeed be interesting to know who his real sources were.


‘SIACHEN HAND OUT’
It is not the fact that the intrusions were brought out that is bothering in this case—it is how and at what level it was done. The same person, this time around perhaps acting on behalf of himself or other puppeteers had ironically played a major role just eight years ago in what was then termed as the “Siachen Hand Out”. It is perhaps worth recounting briefly just what happened then.

The United States was fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan and at that time Pakistan needed sops to keep it honest. It was speculated that the highest office was offered a Nobel Peace Prize if indeed he could “disengage” the troops from the glacier and withdraw to the Shyok River. Talks between India and Pakistan had been going on for a while, but they were not making any headway. The Indian side in the natural flow of discussions, saw the talks falter. The Army, on its part, was extremely vocal about any disengagement, but had there been a settlement, they would have had no choice. Commanding 14 Corps in 2005, Lieutenant General Milan Naidu, bluntly told the Prime Minister that if ordered to pull out so be it, but do not ask us ever again to recapture the area. General J.J. Singh, the COAS, had told the PM a withdrawal was “doable”. As DGMO he had even worked out a plan to “hold the heights”

After official talks had failed, as reported by M.D. Nalapat at the time, the PMO activated its Plan “B”. This involved a retired Indian one-star general (yes, the same one with the energetic son) who was sent to Ottawa in Canada to work with a Pakistani brigadier on a “workable” plan for the “disengagement”. The blue-print having been prepared, it was fairly obvious that even though there was a pliable chief, others down the chain of command were not going to be as amiable. A carefully selected team was then put together under the umbrella of holding Track 2 discussions to build confidence building measures. The Indian side, consisting of 12 members, was headed by a former IAF chief, while the 12-member Pakistani delegation was led by their former army chief, General Mirza Beg, who after retirement was involved in all sorts of murky deals where millions of dollars from intelligence funds were involved.

The lowest ranking member in the Indian delegation was a well-connected-former-Army-cum-journalist. In 2012, when the PM finally decided that all the bases were covered and it was time to implement the “Siachen Sellout”, fortunately Lieutenant General Prakash Katoch, who had commanded the Siachen brigade, got wind of what was happening. However, the PMO, monitoring and shepherding the “deal” ensured no television channel or paper would expose what was going on. Katoch, by then joined by M.G. Devasahayam and me then briefed General V.K. Singh, who had just retired as the chief.

Time was fast running out and at that time we only had the broader picture. I had written the story based on what we had pieced together and fortunately at that time, Anil Tyagi, the enterprising editor of G-Files, decided to cock a snook at the PMO and run the article. The Hindi edition of Outlook then followed suit with a two-page write-up where I asked just one simple question—if we withdraw from Siachen, where will the new defensive line be? As expected there was no answer to that question.

At the time we had no idea that the journalist was the kingpin in the deal. Furious that the deal had been exposed and scuttled, he then wrote three e-mails in the space of two hours—first to Katoch, then Devasahayam and finally to me. Apart from the profanity and personal attacks (he also called me fat), in the first mail to Katoch, like a petulant child who hadn’t got what he wanted, he wrote saying “you are jealous because you didn’t get the goodies”, which others on the Track 2 team got. In 2013, in a formal complaint to the Press Council and the Ministry of Home Affairs, General V.K. Singh had filed a complaint for treason against not just this person, but also an editor of a daily who had made up and perpetuated the coup story. Needless to say nothing happened.


NO MORE LEAKS
With this background, let us return our attention to Ladakh while keeping an eye on the entire 3,500 km-long border extending up to Kibithu. The Chinese have declared their intent, and though we might engage them diplomatically or otherwise, we have to make sure there are no more leaks in INS India. Taunting the PM saying “at least Nehru fought in 1962” and trying to whip up fear hysteria, clearly show what the person’s agenda was as the Galwan talks were on. India is in for a long haul—the Chinese haven’t built up in Ladakh to have a picnic—and it is imperative that the commanders on the ground have the country’s full trust and support. Even in 1962 our men were rock solid, but they were ordered to withdraw, sometimes even from a position of strength. The bulk of our people were shot in the back by the PLA after the ceasefire—that is something we must never forget.

Government after government on our side of the Himalayas has been playing merry hell with our own security apparatus over the years. It wasn’t just Chacha Nehru who tampered with the structure and acted as if we didn’t need an Army. The similarities with what happened in the build-up to 1962 and many things that are happening now are all too obvious. With the dragon at the door, even now there is time to try and repair some of those horrendous cracks. For a start, the government should pass a whip saying no one, especially retired service personnel, should comment on the China situation. Like in the case of the Kargil War, keep the public informed through official briefings for a lack of information can also be extremely counter-productive.
China has played its hand and the fireworks have only just begun. Given our centralized way of functioning, the fuse has to be in Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s absolute control. He has to read the tea leaves carefully and take every decision far from the glare of publicity. Those advisors who have already failed him must go and more competent people brought in. Just remember, in War there is no place for the loser.

 

[utubekhiladi]

Dont want to derail this thread or question the need to kick chink's arses.... but last i heard people are still losing jobs and consumption is way below pre-covid levels.

We can continue this discussion in the indian economy thread, but i find the anti-nationals being so passionate on the war drums at this juncture, more than just coincidence.

Nah we are in troubling times as far as economy is concerned & recovery is still not going to easy. Only silver lining is our foreign exchange reserves are still intact. War may drain us further but we have to push the enemy at the gates whatever the cost.

India's economy was hit by the coronavirus lockdown. These charts show how

India implemented strict lockdown measures in late-March, most of which remained in place until the end of May.

www.cnbc.com

We are better than most countries,
consumption is down across the globe, not just ours..

Not Just India, the global economy took hit, no country was spared except china.. lets say around sep-oct, the world finds out the truth and have undeniable proof that china deliberately leaked the virus in order to destroy world economy and demolish USD value in order to gain super power status. its not even about currency, its about death.. lot of people died..

just imagine what will the world do to china.

 

[captscooby81]

Only two possibilities to govt denial so far on the entire LAC issue

1.China wants to put maximum pressure on India using its force build on LAC and bring GOI to table to negotiate for what ever it wanted to settle with but by constant denial from GOI and less public pressure on Govt they are not able to achieve that aim . "Is that the reason why Modi is keep on saying no issue in LAC" so that he don't fall in the pressure tactics of China

2.GOI still not able to understand what made china to pull this LAC buildup and wants to wait and watch how the situation develops to understand the real motive of chinese buildup . So keep reinforcing troops to LAC and keep them on hold and see what chinese does next .

Truth is somewhere in between these two things or there is 3rd possibility which we all are not able to see "Meek surrender to chinese agression" by babus of GOI or who knows even the top leadership because they are in complete shock to the turn of events after expecting peace peace with china

 

[here2where]

with our current state of affairs, iam glad Modi is calmer than the rest of the country and not rushing into it like a bull into a china shop.

 

[utubekhiladi]

serious question though? can tejas with its current configuration hold the ground on its own?

 

[Blue Water Navy]

If Barak 8 gets deployed then I am not saying that we will be 100% safe from Chinki jets. But one thing you guys should know that its a very lethal system and can act very quickly, so the Chinkis will be taking huge losses even if we get some of our airfields bombarded.

 

[Sanglamorre]

with our current state of affairs, iam glad Modi is calmer than the rest of the country and not rushing into it like a bull into a china shop.

In that analogy, all the China gets broken to bits and the Bull comes out prancing.

I'd take that :v

 

[Akula]

THIS GUY IS INCURABLE WHEN DID WE PULL OUT!!!

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When he can make 100m area into 1.5km area than what we can expect from him.

 

[IndiaRising]

I was talking to a defence expert on twitter. He said H6 bomber is the biggest threat from PLAAF where they have escalation dominance. We are nowhere prepared for this particular threat.

 

[shankyz]

The Supreme Hero Of Galwan

By
Subir Bhaumik

on June 24, 2020​

Only 23 years of age, playful, the usual fun-loving Sikh , his boyish looks concealing the steely soldier who will never shy away from an unequal fight.
Meet Gurtej Singh of 3rd Punjab’s ‘Ghatak Platoon’ who reinforced the beleaguered , outmaneuvered fighters of 16th Bihar regiment at Galwan valley on the evening of 15 June. But first take a ticket to heaven, where rests ‘chota phai Gurtej’ , blessed by the Almighty.
He is not here with his paltan anymore and will not return to his family for his favourite ‘sarson da saag’ and ‘makkai di roti’.
Honestly , it is very difficult for an emotional Bengali like me , also a military school product, to hold back tears as I write the amazing story of ‘chotaphai Gurtej’.
As the fierce 3rd ‘Ghataks’ and the Sikh gunners of Medium Arty regiment rushed into the fight with very little time to plan and prepare on that Monday evening in the picturesque but blooded Galwan Valley , they were only carrying their customary kirpan and an assortments of sticks, rods and sharp knives.
Fellow fighters recall Gurtej being attacked by four Chinese soldiers. The strong Sikh, shouting his ‘Bole So Nihal, Sat Sri Akal’ war cries in a thunderous roar, swung round two of them and as two others tried to pin him down, he dragged all four of them towards the cliff.
“All four Chinese were flung to death but Gurtej lost his balance and also slipped , but was stuck in a boulder , hence avoiding a free fall. Badly injured in the neck and head, Gurtej rewrapped his turban and in a inhuman effort pulled himself back into the fight,” said a military source quoting a fellow fighter.
Gurtej slashed some Chinese with his kirpan before he could snatch a sharp weapon from a Chinese soldier.
“Not only that one but seven other Chinese soldiers perished at the hands of Gurtej before one stabbed him from behind. Even as he went down , he slashed his killer with his kirpan,” said the military source.
At the end of the bloody fight, Gurtej lay dead but so were the 12 Chinese killed by them. As they say, ‘Ik Ik Akali Sikh sawa lakh de barabar” ( an Akali Sikh is as good as 1,25,000)
Gurtej’s body was dragged back by the surviving ‘Ghataks’. I have no access to his village to recount his cremation but knowing Sikhs so well from my childhood in Punjab, I am sure his proud parents will have tears in their eyes for him — but more tears of pride than tears of sorrow.
Gurtej Singh , the latest martyr or ‘Shaheed’ in an enormously crowded pantheon of Sikh heroes starting from Banda Bahadur , is a hero India is yet to know but will never forget once it did .
I remember my IAF instructor-father shedding tears for his dear ‘Sardar beta’ Flying Officer Nirmaljit Singh Sekhon in 1971.
.

Flying Officer​

Nirmal Jit Singh Sekhon​

, was posthumously awarded the ​

Param Vir Chakra​

, India’s highest military decoration , in recognition of his lone defence of ​

Srinagar​

Air Base against a ​

PAF​

air raid during the ​

Indo-Pakistani War of 1971​

. He is the only member of the Indian Air Force to be honoured with the PVC . ​

The Supreme Hero Of Galwan - The Eastern Link

Only 23 years of age, playful, the usual fun-loving Sikh , his boyish looks concealing the steely soldier who will never shy away from an unequal fight. Meet Gurtej Singh of 3rd Punjab’s ‘Ghatak Platoon’ who reinforced the beleaguered , outmaneuvered fighters of 16th Bihar regiment at Galwan...

theeasternlink.com

 

[ARVION]

I was talking to a defence expert on twitter. He said H6 bomber is the biggest threat from PLAAF where they have escalation dominance. We are nowhere prepared for this particular threat.

It's H 6 K that is a threat they have 60 of them and they can deploy 24 of them in the Western Theatre Command's but we can take them down a we have the right missile's for that job's

 

[IndiaRising]

It's H 6 K that is a threat they have 60 of them and they can deploy 24 of them in the Western Theatre Command's but we can take them down a we have the right missile's for that job's

how? Most of our airbases don’t have HAS. They are easy targets. Which missile do we have that can counter their SAMs?

 

[ARVION]

how? Most of our airbases don’t have HAS. They are easy targets. Which missile do we have that can counter their SAMs?

Are you talking of the bomber or sams