India China LAC & International Border Discussions

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nrj

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Then we do not need diplomats. Prostrate in front of Chinese and there would be de-escalation.
Cc to GOI. Silly them engaged in diplomacy, solution is so simple; just prostrate in front of Chinese.

No... not correct. Pakistanis did take everything away in Taskant and Shimala making Indian diplomats to surrender in a "Sajda"... you mean those were not diplomats who gifted Cocoa islands and Havels to others as if one gifts his father's property... not even winning friendship from the other side..
You mean they took away things without firing a bullet ? Wonder what made that possible.

Who failed us in 1962 if not China loving diplomats.
Yes, let's do away with diplomacy.

If you were giving an interview I would fail you for not being truthful..
I am thoroughly surprised you'd do that.
 

Bhadra

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I will tell you all what LAC is!

LAC is Line of ACTUAL Control.

By definition it's a moving thing, you see. The keyword here is "ACTUAL".

I think the Chinese have understood the definition of LAC correctly!
Go there and take a few steps into the Chinese side in front of their post and then see who moves- you or the LAC ?

If you were to be soldier you will be arrested, RAW and IB will interrogate you till cows come home, The Diplomats in MEA will call for your head razingly and Army will simply Court Marshall you.

Then call me - I will ask you who moved and how ??
 

Hijibiji

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Go there and take a few steps into the Chinese side in front of their post and then see who moves- you or the LAC ?

If you were to be soldier you will be arrested, RAW and IB will interrogate you till cows come home, The Diplomats in MEA will call for your head razingly and Army will simply Court Marshall you.

Then call me - I will ask you who moved and how ??
I may or may not move but by definition, LAC will have moved. That's my understanding right now. It is like calculus. You have LAC + delta of LAC and stuff like that. The only question is who can move whom on which side. Correct me if my understanding is wrong?
 

Lancer

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Quench your fency here :

That's wayyyy too much reading to do for something that the author himself admits is largely circumstantial. What exactly is the allegation here? That the US did a shitty job of supporting the Tibetans? Guess what, that's how it is with attempts at supporting insurgency/regime change - Bay of Pigs was a spectacular failure, CIA had all sorts of hits and misses, and Venezuela is a recent example of US policy completely flopping.

The rapprochement with China is largely to Kissinger's credit, which is where the whole talk of using Pak as a go between and all that came in; Kissinger wasn't at DC until '69/'70.

There's talk of NAM but the Chinese were never key leaders in that movement, India was - and even with a whole bunch of 3rd world countries joining it - it was only known as a banquet of beggars. Additionally, why would you need to create conflict between China and India to foil NAM when the USSR & China were already undergoing a split - how could the NAM be a danger to the US, or a "pro-Soviet enemy block" as is stated in the paper then?

Not to mention, what were the *well known* offers of UNSC seats (multiple times) & nuclear assistance from the US to India all about?

Beyond that I couldn't spend any more time going down this rabbit hole.

This whole thing is an excellent alibi for the Chinese and their expansionist designs though. Is that what the current standoff is about? Are the Chinese still punishing us for a failed CIA operation from the 60s?
 
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ladder

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Hahaha. Someone here was speculating Chinese invasion citing a piece of shit. Just now he gave hypothesis of mighty Cheeni may throw us beyond Zaskar.
Mark these words **Chinese CAN NOT DO SHIT**. Same goes for their endorsers.
आदि से अनंत तक, बस यही रही है परंपरा कायर भोगे दुख सदा, वीर भोग्य वसुंधरा


So they were planning to take this bulge this time ..Salami Slicing failed
Now it is probably clear that they (chini) want NS running Shyok to be the LAC. 1959 claim line was different from 1960 and subsequent 1962 ( which they tried to achieve).
It is clear that we will not let that happen but you get a drift of the claim line.
 

Bhadra

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Cc to GOI. Silly them engaged in diplomacy, solution is so simple; just prostrate in front of Chinese.
Sure, you would not like me to elaborate on historical records on that issue.



You mean they took away things without firing a bullet ? Wonder what made that possible.
They took it away having fired bullets at us and having lost on the ground. Those who won victories never mattered to Indian diplomates.... ever and everywhere... they are National interest unto themselves.. Let me see the Chinese or Pakistani diplomates doing that. Diplomates will be hung by PLA or Pakistani generals.

Yes, let's do away with diplomacy.
But never improve the way we do diplomacy.



I am thoroughly surprised you'd do that.
"Indian" diplomates have everything in them to make them super diplomates but nothing Indian about them..
 
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Suryavanshi

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i think it is safe to assume that there are going to be a lot of standoff's from now on indo-china border.
as the patrols increase from our side, more the chances of standoffs.
That's why I say we need to militarize the ITBP.
100,000 able men patrolling the borders with shitty INSAS is waste of talent. Turn ITBP into a full fledged Mountain Warfare force.
An Investment of 1 billion will do the deed covering Modernization and Training cost.
But First Kick put the IPS and put up Army at the decision making body.
 

rock127

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Most of indian house has more than one child.. also nationalism is not forced on indian.. it is a pride and people are ready to die.. indian army is used to casualty and blood and death.. however on tge other hand the Chinese army is full of one child policy .. almost all are single children to their parents.. they were raised with all the love of parents .. also how many Chinese soldeir die every year in conflict.. None..

How can they fight and stand against Indian army.. we every other day loose soldier and that make us hard and tough.. once india start killing Chinese soldier within first hundred body they will surrender or ceasefire
So, lets there be propaganda. Our propaganda!!!!!!!!!:brahmos::cowboy::shoot:

Why should China only shall have fun??!!


How about this article? :lol:

What could be the reason Chini have not fired a single bullet whereas we have shells flying around from our little naughty neighbor on western border all the time. Seems like Chini would fight with the last paki against India while Chini soldier eat momos and chowmin and hold placards at border or some dhakka mukki.

https://qz.com/174402/chinas-military-worries-that-its-one-child-recruits-are-wimps/

China’s military worries that its only-child recruits are “wimps”
ChinaFebruary 6, 2014
https://qz.com/author/lilkuo/
By Lily Kuo

1590775613021.png


China’s millions of only children—known as “little emperors” for how they are doted upon by parents and grandparents—may turn out to be terrible soldiers. As much as 70% of the Chinese military (paywall) is made up of men and women who are the only children in their family, according to a professor at the People’s Liberation Army National Defense University—a figure that gives some military policymakers reason to worry.

“Soldiers from the one-child generations are wimps who have absolutely no fighting spirit,” warned the Study Times, an ideology-focused government publication. Defense experts have been debating whether China’s expanding military is much weaker than it looks. For instance, Chinese troops haven’t been in combat since 1979 and officers spend almost 40% of their time in “political training.”

China’s only children generation, born after 1979 when the country’s “one child” policy went into effect, was once viewed as a boon to the People’s Liberation Army. Higher levels of education and ease with technology were supposed to make them “quick to understand modern warfare in a high-tech era.” In general, China’s recently relaxed population control policy was to create a generation of high-quality children with more resources at their disposal. But studies and anecdotes about the detrimental effects of raising Chinese children without siblings have led many to worry that these kids are too pampered, pessimistic, and risk-adverse to handle careers as entrepreneurs, cooperative coworkers, and especially soldiers.

Quartz has previously pointed out some of the holes in this argument. Other studies have shown that only Chinese children showed no personality differences from their peers with siblings and that many use classmates or other family members as surrogate siblings and playmates. But whether or not there are meaningful differences between the fighting spirit of only children and those with siblings, Chinese military leaders seem to believe so. The PLA reportedly runs special training to toughen up ”spoiled” soldiers. Dean Cheng, an analyst with the Heritage Foundation in Washington, attributed China’s focus on psychological warfare to the fact that many of its soldiers are only children. “He wrote in July, “because of the one-child policy, young people are pampered and may therefore be more psychologically brittle and less capable of handling stress. Defensive psychological measures are therefore seen as an essential means of limiting the impact of wartime pressures on them.”

Still, as US defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld famously said, “you go to war with the army you have,” and China has big military ambitions. Last year, it spent $131.7
billion
(pdf) on its defense forces, almost 40% of total spending in the Asia Pacific region, according to estimates released by IHS Jane’s annual defense review this week. At least for the time being, as China continues expanding its military, it has little choice but to fill its military ranks with more little
 

Hijibiji

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I have seen quite a few "single child" among my friend circle. I did not see anything unusual or wimpy about them. All of them were quite "tough". However if it's about propaganda, it's totally fine!

On a second thought, maybe the CCP sends its soldiers on aggressive patrolling on LAC and order them to do incursions, so that the "wimpy" "single child" army becomes tougher by interacting with "multiple children" Indian army/ ITBP by doing hands-on fighting and thus gaining invaluable experience. It's a possibility that can't be ruled out.
 
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Suryavanshi

Cheeni KLPDhokebaaz
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I have seen quite a few "single child" among my friend circle. I did not see anything unusual or wimpy about them. All of them were quite "tough". However if it's about propaganda, it's totally fine!
Chinese are a death fearing Civilization and culture. Everyone fears death but Chinese do that on another level.
Besides they are spoilt from Childhood.
 

JBH22

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That's why I say we need to militarize the ITBP.
100,000 able men patrolling the borders with shitty INSAS is waste of talent. Turn ITBP into a full fledged Mountain Warfare force.
An Investment of 1 billion will do the deed covering Modernization and Training cost.
But First Kick put the IPS and put up Army at the decision making body.
True ITBP should return to its root acting as commando units. Assam rifles and ITBP should be kept under army command and training.
Also border area should be re populated with immigrants from different states.
 

Hellfire

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Hence Indian Army having gone North of McMahon line is therefore highly contested - Remember Khinzemane.
Well, if I recollect correctly (had the pdf of Henderson-Brooks Bhagat report) even own internal inquiry revealed Dhola was established to the North of McMahon.

Could only look up an extract pertinent here:

One of these new posts was Dhola Post, which eventually triggered the war. In one of the HBR's revelations, it emerges that Dhola was accidentally established on China's side of the McMahon Line. For 52 years, India has held that by attacking Dhola Post, China committed aggression and started the war.


source: https://www.business-standard.com/a...na-s-side-of-mcmahon-line-114032200030_1.html

Obviously, military logic makes no sense here, as you rightly pointed it out earlier. However, most would do well to remember that while cursing Nehru for 1962, one must also recall that Aksai Chin was already questionable possession if one looks at the 1899 note to the Chinese.

I do hope people read up on that aspect to have a better understanding of what our position is and how there are certain aspects that are inherently contradictory to our own stated aims.

Macartney-MacDonald Line & Johnson-Ardagh Lines
 
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LurkerBaba

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Chinese are a death fearing Civilization and culture. Everyone fears death but Chinese do that on another level.
Besides they are spoilt from Childhood.
Single child stuff etc is overblown. Let's not get too carried away by these narratives.

Remember Ayub Khan's - "the Hindu, when struck a timely and decisive blow, would not be able to stand up" ?
 
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