India-China Border conflict

Crazywithmath

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all pictures / videos kept locked in some officers file cabinet . it took a large brawl in tawang for them to even release the very small mild older video from Tawang . if India released the video @mist_consecutive is talking about , actual 200 men brawl video where we royally fucked them , the small chinese CCP children will throw a massive tantrum , gov/army is trying to avoid that 😅
That I know. @mist_consecutive has made multiple posts on that brawl. But the incumbent govt seems totally indifferent to negative PR/propaganda - chinese or otherwise; unless things are coming from official channels that is. They let their works do the heavy lifting; remember the last regime change attempt in Nepal? KP Oli was talking shit every other day and cozying up to china; where is he now?
 

vidhwanshak

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its not about giving zero fucks , goverment is trying to push china to disengage troops and deescalate . that wont be possible if we released pictures and humilate them .

everything is downplayed , even recon chinese sf troops crossing LAC , getting captured are turned into innocent PLA soldier getting lost - fed water kissed on forehead and released back into wild .

all pictures / videos kept locked in some officers file cabinet . it took a large brawl in tawang for them to even release the very small mild older video from Tawang . if India released the video @mist_consecutive is talking about , actual 200 men brawl video where we royally fucked them , the small chinese CCP children will throw a massive tantrum , gov/army is trying to avoid that 😅
GOI even forced the news channel to take down the news about this.
2-3 days later they released galwan pics and videos to lessen the humiliation
 

mist_consecutive

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:laugh: what a fuckup

12000ft north of khardung la , , anyone on twitter found its location ? @mist_consecutive

at 3658m , mountain peaks here go upto 5500m , 12000ft is not that far from valley altitude. leh is at 3400m
Nope. The hepter is probably in some inaccessible valley, not on the top of the mountain as people might be thinking. Ladakh ground-level height is ~3000 meters above sea level.

Also finding a single heli without any geograhical clue will be finding a needle in haystack, hence futile.
 

JBH22

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:laugh: what a fuckup

12000ft north of khardung la , , anyone on twitter found its location ? @mist_consecutive

at 3658m , mountain peaks here go upto 5500m , 12000ft is not that far from valley altitude. leh is at 3400m
Waiting for the Indian crowd to lambast the Apache, if that was the Mi-24 hind we would be getting randi rona about Russian quality.

However, that is some epic shit show by the armed forces using multi million dollar Apache for high altitude flight. That shit is not for high altitude flight, at best it is useful for desert operations against Pakistan.
 

Jimih

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Waiting for the Indian crowd to lambast the Apache, if that was the Mi-24 hind we would be getting randi rona about Russian quality.

This is some epic shit show by the armed forces using multi million dollar Apache for high altitude flight. That shit is not for high altitude flight, at best it is useful for desert operations against Pakistan.
Well the Russian choppers the modified Mi-17s were blasting Paki army sangars at 14000 to 18000 ft during Kargil battle.

IMG_20240409_134053.png



Maybe you are right. IA testing Apaches for SHA warfare didn't yielded results as they were expecting.
 

JBH22

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I always believed that US tech is over-engineered for our requirement and threat scenario. We need quantity and rugged system at competitive pricing. Investing multi million in hardware coupled that with maintenance and high training cost, it's a disaster waiting to happen.
Save for C-17 and P-8, I would say we purchase white elephants
 

mist_consecutive

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Waiting for the Indian crowd to lambast the Apache, if that was the Mi-24 hind we would be getting randi rona about Russian quality.

However, that is some epic shit show by the armed forces using multi million dollar Apache for high altitude flight. That shit is not for high altitude flight, at best it is useful for desert operations against Pakistan.
Apache is being operated from Leh & Thoise since few years now, and have are being rigorously worked day-to-day. Just google Apache in Ladakh you will get so many videos.

That being said, I won't lambast it for facing a techical issue once in a while. High altitude environment is unforgiving for both men & machine, our beloved Dhruv's have also faced a lot of issue.

People act like indigeneous solutions like Rudra/Prachand will somehow magically fare better. They won't.

I always believed that US tech is over-engineered for our requirement and threat scenario. We need quantity and rugged system at competitive pricing. Investing multi million in hardware coupled that with maintenance and high training cost, it's a disaster waiting to happen.
Save for C-17 and P-8, I would say we purchase white elephants
Jumping to conclusions too quick, aren't we ?

We appreciate C-17s & P-8Is because we have seen them in active duty producing results, unlike Apache which will produce results when we have an active war, which can be like, never.
 

omaebakabaka

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Apache is being operated from Leh & Thoise since few years now, and have are being rigorously worked day-to-day. Just google Apache in Ladakh you will get so many videos.

That being said, I won't lambast it for facing a techical issue once in a while. High altitude environment is unforgiving for both men & machine, our beloved Dhruv's have also faced a lot of issue.

People act like indigeneous solutions like Rudra/Prachand will somehow magically fare better. They won't.



Jumping to conclusions too quick, aren't we ?

We appreciate C-17s & P-8Is because we have seen them in active duty producing results, unlike Apache which will produce results when we have an active war, which can be like, never.
While the US engines are definitely better, Apaches aren't worth it over any domestic option once available. Russian shit is also watered down for export and not cheap anymore either vs USSR. Western equipment is indeed eating shit in Ukraine and is no wonderwaffe not withstanding propaganda. India needs to go good enough cheap domestic with strong discipline to counter enemies if necessary with cheap and efficient counter means like Russia is doing. Apaches aren't going to give any edge in my opinion against China. Too many crashes recently across the world
 

Azaad

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What possible limits could there be to absorption of technology by the armed forces ? The armed forces are inducting drones of various shapes sizes & roles by the dozens. I don't see any complaints there though each platoon would require dedicated personnel & redundancies in built for efficacy & consistency. We don't even know how they're going about it though the inductions themselves are a welcome move .

However one doesn't see the same alacrity as far as artillery goes be it tube or gun viz ATAGs , TGS , MGS , etc or the various tube artillery upto 300 kms range & in huge numbers . Where's the war time plan to replenish standard ammo , mortars , shells apart from these platforms & tube artillery ?

Then there's the rocket force which was planned & we assume is work in progress with no news as to how far they've reached. Inductions of TBMs & CMs are piece meal . No inductions of IRBMs for tactical roles. Further the sub sonic LR LACM are crucial both to our plans & budget. No clue how's the forthcoming Nirbhay / ITCM / LR LACM shaping up & the numbers we're preparing to induct them in .

When the Rafales were first selected in 2012 thry were deemed more than a match for the J-20 . Since then the Rafales have undergone / are undergoing a phased modernization vide the F-4 program which is more of a S/W upgradation, with upgrades to SPECTRA , more modes to the GaA AESA radar etc , whereas their definitive F-5 modernisation package due for the end of this decade has been pushed to 2035 . This was supposed to have a GaN AESA , a new SPECTRA suite , MUMT , various other software & hardware related upgrades including possibly a new upgraded TF.

For perspective our Rafales are the F-3 version . While their F-5 version even if it came by 2029-30 wouldn't have been of much use to us , a GaN AESA radar would definitely go a long way in countering the PLAAF where their J-20 has indeed come a long way from what it used to be & more importantly how the IAF perceived it to be when they settled on the Rafales to counter the J-20 way back in 2022 & which now is shaping up to be a VLO FA.

Then there's the issue of the numbers. The J-20 has already seen upwards of 200 nos inducted where guesstimates are they'd shoot up to 2000 by the end of this decade for obvious reasons in that it's going to be the tip of the spear as far as PLAAF goes when it expects to square up with the USAF where the F-35 & F-22 are expected to perform a similar role with the former planned for induction in similar nos as the J-20.

From our PoV even if they deployed a fourth of the numbers in the WTC , you can well imagine what the IAF is up against. Then there are the 4 & 4.5 Gen FAs in their inventory running into hundreds as far as the J-11 , the J-10 , the J-16 go apart from the Su-27 & the Su-30 MKK . Then there are their strategic bombers in significant nos.

Add to that the space based ISR assets apart from air borne ones plus supporting platforms like Air Refuelers. Pls also consider their ADS & BMD which is indeed formidable though we've a matching program too as far as our ADS goes especially once the LR SAM goes into production which it is expected to towards the second half of this decade which brings us back to the numbers game. Then again our BMD is work in progress as is our HGV program while they've already deployed both systems.

I could go on & fill in the complete page on the stark asymmetries we're facing which brings me to our strategy. Apparently as per some retired top brass of our armed forces the doctrine we're still following is deterrence by denial & not thru build up which is amply reflected in our arms procurement pre & post Galwan. This is the opposite of preparing for the worst & hoping for the best.

I've given this issue considerable thought and have reached the conclusion that once stalemate is ensured on the LAC , GoI is of the opinion the Chinese leadership will back down . I don't think Xi would be in any position to do so as the collective leadership introduced by Deng & followed by his successors like Jiang Zemin & Hu Jintao has been replaced by a dictatorship Mao style by Xi with his loyalists in charge.

Besides he's upset far too many powerful factions within the CCP for them not to call out his failures - both real & perceived. Hence a failure on his part will definitely mean a bullet thru the head for him & his coterie. You can imagine what the response of their armed forces will be better when you realise what is on stake especially as far as their supreme leadership goes wherein that desperation is transferred doen the heirarchy right down to the lowest rank .


What this means is even if we do manage a stalemate on the LAC of which there's no guarantee , Xi would merely up the ante & start targetting population & production centres in a concentrated manner to break supply chains & more importantly to break morale. This in turn brings us to the scenario where in we'd possibly threaten the usage of N weapons. The Chinese may well call our bluff like we did the Paxtanis in Balakote.

The only way we can avoid this is if we accumulate a stockpile of IRBMs , LACMs - LR , MR & SR to target their production & population centres in the east & south of China. Are we doing it ? Certainly not . And that's why I foresee our armed forces taking severe losses & a great toll for our infrastructure. In other words you can expect we'd play the role of a Ukraine or more accurately the role China played in WW-2 wherein they tied up a significant section of the Imperial Japanese Army & their material resources while the Allies under the US was on the march across the Pacific. We know how that one ended & the costs paid by all the participants in the end but especially from our PoV , by China in terms of men material & infrastructure.

All his succesors introduced as such to the CCP & the people of Zhongghuo by Great Helmsman 1.0 , never lasted long . They were done for by Great Helmsman 1.0 himself. The curious case of Lin Biao comes to ones mind.

It'd be the same with great helmsman 2.0. Except it won't be easy for great helmsman 2.0 to launch another cultural revolution to save his skin . But then again who knows? After all this is the CCP & this is also China.
 

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