LOC, LAC & IB warfare

[Kunal Biswas]

In 1986, India had a new COAS in Gen K Sunderji. The adamant General didn't want to concede ground anymore, no matter who the opponent was. India's offer of not to re-occupy the post if China withdrew troops was arrogantly rejected by China. Gen. Sundarji, in order to retaliate to Chinese hubris, launched Operation Chequerboard and used the Indian Air Force (IAF) advance airlift capability with M-26 helicopters to move a large number of troops to Sino-Indian border. These forces occupied the Hathung La, across the Namka Chu from Thag La.

In May 1987, the then Indian Minister of External Affairs, N.D. Tiwari went to Beijing en route to Pyongyang, North Korea. In order to de-escalate the tension, he gave a clear message that New Delhi had no intention of aggravating the situation. As a result, the first formal flag meeting to discuss “ the freezing of the situation” since 1962, took place on the 5th of August, 1987 at Bum La in the aftermath of the Wangdung affair. Both countries also decided to resume bilateral talks to solve border disputes.

Soon, the deployment of troops was de-escalated, and the then PM Rajiv Gandhi visited Beijing in 1988. It was the first visit of any Indian PM after his grandfather Jawaharlal Nehru. Experts say that it was the first time post the 1962 war that any Indian PM had talked to top Chinese leaders on equal footing and the move garnered much respect in return.

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This happened under their nose, Without firing a single bullet further in reality we captured 4 hills which over looked any PLA movements if they intend to move in ..

If this happens again, I won`t be surprised, Burma, POK what next ?

They have increase meddling with our affairs. Please try to understand why. If we increase escalation on northern borders , we will be quite isolated in world forum. But if we retaliate in SCS , I think we will get quite huge support instead.

Such incursions are more or less localized and could be prevented through physical barriers. But I agree that we must be prepared for any dramatic step by PLA. So we need to station lots of troops down there.

 

[Hiranyaksha]

In 1986, India had a new COAS in Gen K Sunderji. The adamant General didn't want to concede ground anymore, no matter who the opponent was. India's offer of not to re-occupy the post if China withdrew troops was arrogantly rejected by China. Gen. Sundarji, in order to retaliate to Chinese hubris, launched Operation Chequerboard and used the Indian Air Force (IAF) advance airlift capability with M-26 helicopters to move a large number of troops to Sino-Indian border. These forces occupied the Hathung La, across the Namka Chu from Thag La.

In May 1987, the then Indian Minister of External Affairs, N.D. Tiwari went to Beijing en route to Pyongyang, North Korea. In order to de-escalate the tension, he gave a clear message that New Delhi had no intention of aggravating the situation. As a result, the first formal flag meeting to discuss “ the freezing of the situation” since 1962, took place on the 5th of August, 1987 at Bum La in the aftermath of the Wangdung affair. Both countries also decided to resume bilateral talks to solve border disputes.

Soon, the deployment of troops was de-escalated, and the then PM Rajiv Gandhi visited Beijing in 1988. It was the first visit of any Indian PM after his grandfather Jawaharlal Nehru. Experts say that it was the first time post the 1962 war that any Indian PM had talked to top Chinese leaders on equal footing and the move garnered much respect in return.

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This happened under their nose, Without firing a single bullet further in reality we captured 4 hills which over looked any PLA movements if they intend to move in ..

If this happens again, I won`t be surprised, Burma, POK what next ?

I respect then leadership courage but still it was 1986 . Please allow me put some figure into prespective :


Year Nominal GDP PPP GDP Nominal GDP PPP GDP Growth (%
(billions $) (billions Int. $) capita ($) capita (Int. $)
India China India China India China India China India China
1986 252.751 303.177 684.693 710.989 326.025 282.007 883.190 661.343 4.78 8.80


2017 2,755.830 12,864.400 9,574.550 22,148.588 2,103.577 9,259.340 7,308.434 15,941.771 7.55 6.00

If they would have esclated in 1986 we might have had a chance. But right now we should not allow our enemy to have time and place of engagement as its convenience.

 

[captscooby81]

If its true that the trouble started because we had objected to a road construction then its a good thing for us especially in those border area s were we have very poor infrastructure to counter ..Just a small look below what simple roads can do for China ...Lots of metal getting moved into Tibet region by using these simple roads

 

[pankaj nema]

I respect then leadership courage but still it was 1986 . Please allow me put some figure into prespective :


Year Nominal GDP PPP GDP Nominal GDP PPP GDP Growth (%
(billions $) (billions Int. $) capita ($) capita (Int. $)
India China India China India China India China India China
1986 252.751 303.177 684.693 710.989 326.025 282.007 883.190 661.343 4.78 8.80


2017 2,755.830 12,864.400 9,574.550 22,148.588 2,103.577 9,259.340 7,308.434 15,941.771 7.55 6.00

If they would have esclated in 1986 we might have had a chance. But right now we should not allow our enemy to have time and place of engagement as its convenience.

You are forgetting one very important thing

That was the Era of cold war

India was an enemy for USA ; today our relations are
infinitely better with USA

Pakistan was US ally because of Afghan war
Today USA hates pakistan

Today we are Militarily Much better placed than in 1987

Plus China has made a mess with all its neighbors
in Asia

If China fights with its Most powerful neighbor ie India
what message will it send to REST of ASIA

Asian countries will form an Anti China alliance

 

[Hiranyaksha]

You are forgetting one very important thing

That was the Era of cold war

India was an enemy for USA ; today our relations are
infinitely better with USA

Pakistan was US ally because of Afghan war
Today USA hates pakistan

Today we are Militarily Much better placed than in 1987

Plus China has made a mess with all its neighbors
in Asia

If China fights with its Most powerful neighbor ie India
what message will it send to REST of ASIA

Asian countries will form an Anti China alliance

US will never fight any war for us. Any conflict at McMohan line will end up being internal matter between China and India. SCS and trade are the only ways to tame this Goliath.

 

[pankaj nema]

US will never fight any war for us. Any conflict at McMohan line will end up being internal matter between China and India. SCS and trade are the only ways to tame this Goliath.

If China attacks India then Pakistan will also join

So in a Two front situation we will have to take Help

US would love to show China the limits of its capabilities

 

[Hiranyaksha]

If China attacks India then Pakistan will also join

So in a Two front situation we will have to take Help

US would love to show China the limits of its capabilities

China will never "attack" India. It will "rightfully occupy" what they claim as its own. McMohan line has never been agreed upon. China will just go and sit there. There will be no attack.
No country will even dare to side with us on this matter, be it US.
I think we are highly relying ourselves on US by assuming that Uncle Sam will solve our matter. At best it will be a ceasefire with Chinese troops occupying what they declare as their own. And China will drag the matter at UN and it will be treated as an internal dispute with no international say.

^^ Nightmare scenario for us.

SCS and Trade are our bargaining chip. SCS do have a legal stand it being international trade routes and India being huge trade market for Chinese Goods.

We can also damage CPEC by taking back our POK. But still it won't hurt that much to China. But if we take back POK and then allow Chinese goods through it. I think that will be great move.

 

[pankaj nema]

China will never "attack" India. It will "rightfully occupy" what they claim as its own. McMohan line has never been agreed upon. China will just go and sit there. There will be no attack.
No country will even dare to side with us on this matter, be it US.
I think we are highly relying ourselves on US by assuming that Uncle Sam will solve our matter. At best it will be a ceasefire with Chinese troops occupying what they declare as their own. And China will drag the matter at UN and it will be treated as an internal dispute with no international say.

^^ Nightmare scenario for us.

SCS and Trade are our bargaining chip. SCS do have a legal stand it being international trade routes and India being huge trade market for Chinese Goods.

We can also damage CPEC by taking back our POK. But still it won't hurt that much to China. But if we take back POK and then allow Chinese goods through it. I think that will be great move.

China does not have the capability to occupy Arunachal Pradesh

It can only indulge in these silly tactics on LAC
which must be replied strongly immediately

China cares only for hard power

Trade and other things are just secondary for them

 

[Hiranyaksha]

China does not have the capability to occupy Arunachal Pradesh

It can only indulge in these silly tactics on LAC
whic must be replied strongly immediately

if that is the case then why are you worried about silly tactics ? Let the chinks do the musing. Keep guard but do not retaliate unless necessary.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

That is exactly what we are doing and done in past ..

If they would have esclated in 1986 we might have had a chance. But right now we should not allow our enemy to have time and place of engagement as its convenience.

 

[jai_shri_ram123]

The fact is that we have much more manpower on the LAC
than China

So we too can play this game

There is plenty of Vacant territory ; un marked ; un demarcated

Where you can just put up a tent and stay

If China can come inside our area ; we too can cross over
into their area

Read the tweet again it says "captured Chinese land".

How productive long sighted it will be to change a working relationship into a over enemy for some border unpleasantness.

Are we not done with one enemy constantly creating nuisance for us that we want almost every land border hot? Can we really sustain it for long term unless we are planning to be another Pakistan.

Kind of appaled by a knee jerk and so short sighted thinking or maybe no thinking pure ranting, whatever but definitely not the course of action both India or China wish to take.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Only if you go through detailed history of Sino - Indian relationship ..

You would not have raised such a point ..


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This can be called recent ..

Published on Aug 28, 2014

Published on Nov 20, 2015

Published on Jun 26, 2017

Chinese respect power and not flimsy talks only, Politics and military work separately but after mutual outcome ..

Are we not done with one enemy constantly creating nuisance for us that we want almost every land border hot? Can we really sustain it for long term unless we are planning to be another Pakistan.

Kind of appaled by a knee jerk and so short sighted thinking or maybe no thinking pure ranting, whatever but definitely not the course of action both India or China wish to take.

 

[SanjeevM]

If you remember the recent news of 2 Chinese murdered in Pakistan, there was a lot of hue and cry in China. I read somewhere in some post that Chinese have one family one child family. Think of a bloody fight with China and how many families in China will lose their only son.

Moral of the story is China will never want to have a fight with India. They are building up their arsenal and forces for bullying. Recently they sent lakh of their troops to north Korea borders. Just to exert pressure. Chinese are building up forces and hardware at large scale to increase their bullying power.

India is doing fine on borders with Chinese. Don't let them come and inch inside Indian territory. If they enter in one sector, we go in multiple sectors and leave paint marks on stones as Chinese do on Indian side. Don't let them build permanent structure in disputed territories.

If we want to give befitting reply to Chinese bully, We should multiply our indigenous defence production. Arjun, Dhanush, Tejas, Rustam, Submarines, ships everything and anything we can make indigenous in large numbers. Chinese compared strength on the basis of numbers. With imports we cannot increase numbers. We need numbers that we can achieve with indigenous production only. Eventually we may not have to fire a single bullet or a single munition from Arjun or Dhanush, but we will have numbers and Chinese will not bully us. Indian Army and Air force should realize this and order Arjuns, Dhanush, Tejas and other hardware in bulk with whatever technology we have ready today. We can retrofit them later as technology advances.

Chinese are trying to send some forces to Pakistan to set up a base. In case they involve in border skirmishes with India from Pakistan borders, that would be to test where they stand viz India in case a real fight breaks.

 

[Butter Chicken]

China is pressing Bhutan to give 400 km^2 land in India-TIbet-Bhutan trijunction,and take 900 km^2 land elsewhere.Aimed at India's chicken neck.

Darjeeling unrest is also done by China+Nepal Maoist nexus

 

[take2spot]

Chinese troops crossed the Sikkim border and destroyed two make-shift bunkers of the army, reports the Press Trust of India.

I think the buzz of futures India’s confronting two front wars on LOC and LAC is precise and well-illustrated and quite predicted.

I read somewhere Nepal linkage with Darjeeling turbulence? Is that true?

 

[Suryavanshi]

China is pressing Bhutan to give 400 km^2 land in India-TIbet-Bhutan trijunction,and take 900 km^2 land elsewhere.Aimed at India's chicken neck.

Darjeeling unrest is also done by China+Nepal Maoist nexus

But would Bhutan agree tho?
The area near the chicken neck is quite habitable than any other region China may offer.

 

[bose]

Chinese troops crossed the Sikkim border and destroyed two make-shift bunkers of the army, reports the Press Trust of India.

Both the countries cross each others LAC the other day Indians stopped Chinese construction ... read www.ndtv.com for details...

I think the buzz of futures India’s confronting two front wars on LOC and LAC is precise and well-illustrated and quite predicted.

Pakistan has no money to fight war with India...

China does not have the guts to fight India...

I read somewhere Nepal linkage with Darjeeling turbulence? Is that true?

You are reading too much Jihadi material ... Nepal is no way connected to Darjeeling trouble

 

[Bornubus]

Keep guard but do not retaliate unless necessary.

And when would that be ?


Except bombing our positions to kingdome come their bombers and helis are violating our air space and their Army destroy our military infrastructure.


Remember there is no disputed territory in Sikkim its a settled issue, still Chinese shitting in Sikkim.

 

[Akshay Fenix]

Read the tweet again it says "captured Chinese land".

How productive long sighted it will be to change a working relationship into a over enemy for some border unpleasantness.

Are we not done with one enemy constantly creating nuisance for us that we want almost every land border hot? Can we really sustain it for long term unless we are planning to be another Pakistan.

Kind of appaled by a knee jerk and so short sighted thinking or maybe no thinking pure ranting, whatever but definitely not the course of action both India or China wish to take.

The chinse have captured 2000 sq kms of Indian territory, So we did not capture any lands, we just took what's ours.

Do you want India to surrender more of our territory just to maintain so called "peace"?

When do you think is the right time to say "Enough is Enough, not 1 more inch"?

These commie scums did not stop at xingjang, they did not stop at Tibet, they did not stop at Mongolia, they did not stop at Siberia, they did not stop at SCS, they did not stop at Vietnam, they did not stop at Aksai chin and POK and many many more,

and they WILL NOT STOP AT SIKKIM AND ARUNACHAL PRADESH.

 

[Bornubus]

I think the buzz of futures India’s confronting two front wars on LOC and LAC is precise and well-illustrated and quite predicted.

Hopefully from Western side the war will be fought between regular armies not "Rent a ******" Mujahids from proxy war.