Indian Special Forces

[abingdonboy]

Watching videos of ex-US SOFs and especially their tier 1 units (but it’s true for all their elite guys) and I realised what annoys me the most about the ‘Gucci Gang’ labelling/all is fine crowd has nothing to do with equipment (although that’s part of it obviously as that is a result of this) but is about culture and attitude

You can have all the good stuff in the world but if you can’t mount an optic properly or don’t have the proper discipline in how to use it it’s moot. What makes the top Western units what they are is their institutional culture and the ATTENTION TO DETAILS,every single thing that is taken into combat has a reason to be there, there’s thought behind it and they’ve tested other options but this is optimised for them



When I heard about DEVGRU’s tactical light SOPs and how seriously they took a white light AD it clicked

Meanwhile you see Indian SFs running around with seemingly utterly random setups, improperly and or loose fitted pistol holsters, elbow and knee pads (for demos only), ‘tactical scarfs’, sunglasses at night, no standardised anything etc etc. It’s always so random or awkward looking, it doesn’t look like there’s much thought behind any of it

it’s what separates the pros from the amateurs. It’s like how sports used to be played by weekend warriors but are now training us very scientific, india still follows the 1970s type of mentality where natural talent and experience are all that matters

 

[SGOperative]

Meanwhile you see Indian SFs running around with seemingly utterly random setups, improperly and or loose fitted pistol holsters, elbow and knee pads (for demos only), ‘tactical scarfs’, sunglasses at night, no standardised anything etc etc. It’s always so random or awkward looking, it doesn’t look like there’s much thought behind any of it

Hostlers: You Use what you are issued or purchase at the expense of self
Elbow and Knee Pads: Usualy to make the Senior guys and regular public happy (On twitter too you can easily find comments asking where are the elbow and knee pads)
Tactical Scarfs are usually to hide identity but now are part of the aesthetics and they are used all over the world
Sunglasses at night: Those are ballistic glasses

 

[shouryav105]

It's pretty evident that gwot changed the whole game, Americans always had that attitude of not wanting to compromise and have every advantage possible over their enemy, All American Spec-ops units would rotate between Iraq and afghan, and informal exchange of tactics and changes created by the soldiers would take place within units to overcome issues and later money will be spent on research to permanently solve the issue with the help of ground input, the current Gucci gear that we see is actually the brainchild of American jugad + us forces willingness to fill the holes immediately, I remember hearing that during operations the earpros will start to crush head and ears and give soldier pain and headaches when wore with normal helmets so soldiers started cutting their helmets with electric saw so the earpro won't push against ears and head, that jugad is basically your high-cut helmets, The problem is Indian sf and army started compromising in a lot of things , that there were no solutions for , In general It sounds cool that even without this or that our SF completes the mission ,but the problem is that they never fill the holes for the future , our army consist of extremely brave men , but overall our army chases mediocrity and procrastinate , I don't think army will stop chasing mediocrity and chase perfection altleast not until we go to any war or conflict and face problems.

 

[rkhanna]

what? i've only heard of fbi hrt training with jsoc unit. all swat team come under doj

I had posted some links in the intl SOF thread sometime back.

JSOC works with whomever gets them better. Scietist , civ contactors etc

SWAT Trains with other Tier 2 Units

JSOC often trains with major city swat / ERT teams - La/NYPD , Chicago, etc .

 

[abingdonboy]

It's pretty evident that gwot changed the whole game, Americans always had that attitude of not wanting to compromise and have every advantage possible over their enemy, All American Spec-ops units would rotate between Iraq and afghan, and informal exchange of tactics and changes created by the soldiers would take place within units to overcome issues and later money will be spent on research to permanently solve the issue with the help of ground input, the current Gucci gear that we see is actually the brainchild of American jugad + us forces willingness to fill the holes immediately, I remember hearing that during operations the earpros will start to crush head and ears and give soldier pain and headaches when wore with normal helmets so soldiers started cutting their helmets with electric saw so the earpro won't push against ears and head, that jugad is basically your high-cut helmets, The problem is Indian sf and army started compromising in a lot of things , that there were no solutions for , In general It sounds cool that even without this or that our SF completes the mission ,but the problem is that they never fill the holes for the future , our army consist of extremely brave men , but overall our army chases mediocrity and procrastinate , I don't think army will stop chasing mediocrity and chase perfection altleast not until we go to any war or conflict and face problems.

Absolutely, many in service prior to 9/11 said GWOT was the catalyst for everything and revolutionised how they trained for and executed their missions from top to bottom

The issue is, india has been in their own WOT for decades now and hasn’t learned or applied the same lessons. What learnings have been applied? What revolution has occurred? They are still calling off missions at daylight and operating overtly

 

[SGOperative]

The issue is, india has been in their own WOT for decades now and hasn’t learned or applied the same lessons. What learnings have been applied? What revolution has occurred? They are still calling off missions at daylight and operating overtly

The learning have been limited to only the units operating (to the extent possible for them), The equipment and larger implementation is supposed to come in bulk from the central leadership but never ordered and executed and i dont get the operating overtly expand on that please.
Also The implementation for us regards to WOT is limited in overall horizon when talking about the military so we cant go the Full NATO here either.

 

[Covfefe]

Hostlers: You Use what you are issued or purchase at the expense of self
Elbow and Knee Pads: Usualy to make the Senior guys and regular public happy (On twitter too you can easily find comments asking where are the elbow and knee pads)
Tactical Scarfs are usually to hide identity but now are part of the aesthetics and they are used all over the world
Sunglasses at night: Those are ballistic glasses

Bhai do our marksmen or snipers use ballistic glasses atleast?

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

Bhai do our marksmen or snipers use ballistic glasses atleast?

Ig special forces use it

 

[rkhanna]

Bhai do our marksmen or snipers use ballistic glasses atleast?

didnt understand. whats the connection between a sniper and ballistic glasses? or you meant ballistic computers?

 

[Covfefe]

didnt understand. whats the connection between a sniper and ballistic glasses? or you meant ballistic computers?

I meant these

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

I meant theseView attachment 151549

This is issued even to assaulters and lmg in sf iirc

 

[shouryav105]

Bhai do our marksmen or snipers use ballistic glasses atleast?

I don't think there is any particular need for snipers to wear eye-pro, they may be useful for machine gunners, they are available in number, but most do not use them.

 

[shouryav105]

Bhai why are you posting this here, its sf thread.

 

[Covfefe]

I don't think there is any particular need for snipers to wear eye-pro, they may be useful for machine gunners, they are available in number, but most do not use them.

Hmm, my comment was based on this video and the fact that this happened possibly due to ammo(which we don't have great reputation for, although Sniper ones are probably all imported)


DMR guys almost never appear with any eye protection.

 

[shouryav105]

Hmm, my comment was based on this video and the fact that this happened possibly due to ammo(which we don't have great reputation for, although Sniper ones are probably all imported)


DMR guys almost never appear with any eye protection.

extremely rare, mostly happens only with 50 cal, I don't think our SF uses 50 cal.

 

[shouryav105]

9 para guys looks ripped.

 

[rkhanna]

I meant theseView attachment 151549

Sure. But still don't get why sniper needs them. Sunglasses to keep the glare of the sun out i understand but why ballistic glasses ?

 

[ManhattanProject]

It's pretty evident that gwot changed the whole game, Americans always had that attitude of not wanting to compromise and have every advantage possible over their enemy, All American Spec-ops units would rotate between Iraq and afghan, and informal exchange of tactics and changes created by the soldiers would take place within units to overcome issues and later money will be spent on research to permanently solve the issue with the help of ground input, the current Gucci gear that we see is actually the brainchild of American jugad + us forces willingness to fill the holes immediately, I remember hearing that during operations the earpros will start to crush head and ears and give soldier pain and headaches when wore with normal helmets so soldiers started cutting their helmets with electric saw so the earpro won't push against ears and head, that jugad is basically your high-cut helmets, The problem is Indian sf and army started compromising in a lot of things , that there were no solutions for , In general It sounds cool that even without this or that our SF completes the mission ,but the problem is that they never fill the holes for the future , our army consist of extremely brave men , but overall our army chases mediocrity and procrastinate , I don't think army will stop chasing mediocrity and chase perfection altleast not until we go to any war or conflict and face problems.

The delta guys used to wear skateboarding helmets into combat, the non ballistic bump helmets were created to replace those.

 

[Covfefe]

Sure. But still don't get why sniper needs them. Sunglasses to keep the glare of the sun out i understand but why ballistic glasses ?

Hmm, my comment was based on this video and the fact that this happened possibly due to ammo(which we don't have great reputation for, although Sniper ones are probably all imported)


DMR guys almost never appear with any eye protection.

 

[Jay99]

Mapping The Line of Control: In Kashmir's Inhospitable Terrains