Indian Special Forces

[Immanuel]

Been saying it for years, no money, no honey. Also as said before for donkey's years, from RFI, RFP to acquisition to force wide adaption and deployment , there are hundreds of technical, bureaucratic, financial, production, delivery, after care etc hurdles that need to be overcome. Any defence deal of any kind is a minor miracle in this country. Power and decision taking authority, funds and acquisition processes should be decentralized, I couldn't tell you how, but that would be start. MHA, MOD, PMO, can fuck off at that point. Forces manage their own budgets and allocate funds as needed and buy what they need. But wishfulthinking here, babudom likes to keep bureaucratic dick firmly in place.

 

[Scramjet]

In USA everyone has a M4A1 pattern assault rifle from Police to the military, we have a clusterfuck.
Why not go for 5.56 as standard? Just because your INSAS round was dumb doesn’t mean it will be the same for every gun, it had a 890m/s muzzle velocity with a fuckin 18.3” of barrel while an M4A1 has a 910m/s muzzle velocity with a 14.5” barrel. Obviously INSAS would’ve been useless. 890m/s is only slightly higher than some 5.56 NATO SBRs.

I don’t get this logic of 7.62 is better, if so why the Russians themselves don’t use it? The Bulgarians use 5.56x45mm NATO AK-47s (their own domestic Arsenal AKs), Poland uses 5.56x45mm NATO AK-47s (their own domestic Beryl AKs), Russians use 5.45x39 Kalashnikovs, Belarusian Army uses 5.45x39mm Kalashnikovs, Ukrainian Army standard is 5.45x39mm Kalashnikovs (ask @Akim, if I’m wrong, I’ve seen only a few 7.62x39mm AKs in Ukrainian military). THESE ALL ARE SLAVIC COUNTRIES WHO ARE CULTURALLY VERY SIMILAR AND THEIR TERRAINS AND TRAINING ETC ARE SIMILAR).

NATO standard is 5.56x45 NATO cartridge, only the poor countries are using the 7.62x39mm as they don’t have any other choice snd options, most of post soviet states use 5.45x39.

Which round has higher stopping power ?

 

[Marliii]

Which round has higher stopping power ?

5.56 is the best bet for special forces

 

[Immanuel]

In USA everyone has a M4A1 pattern assault rifle from Police to the military, we have a clusterfuck.
Why not go for 5.56 as standard? Just because your INSAS round was dumb doesn’t mean it will be the same for every gun, it had a 890m/s muzzle velocity with a fuckin 18.3” of barrel while an M4A1 has a 910m/s muzzle velocity with a 14.5” barrel. Obviously INSAS would’ve been useless. 890m/s is only slightly higher than some 5.56 NATO SBRs.

I don’t get this logic of 7.62 is better, if so why the Russians themselves don’t use it? The Bulgarians use 5.56x45mm NATO AK-47s (their own domestic Arsenal AKs), Poland uses 5.56x45mm NATO AK-47s (their own domestic Beryl AKs), Russians use 5.45x39 Kalashnikovs, Belarusian Army uses 5.45x39mm Kalashnikovs, Ukrainian Army standard is 5.45x39mm Kalashnikovs (ask @Akim, if I’m wrong, I’ve seen only a few 7.62x39mm AKs in Ukrainian military). THESE ALL ARE SLAVIC COUNTRIES WHO ARE CULTURALLY VERY SIMILAR AND THEIR TERRAINS AND TRAINING ETC ARE SIMILAR).

NATO standard is 5.56x45 NATO cartridge, only the poor countries are using the 7.62x39mm as they don’t have any other choice snd options, most of post soviet states use 5.45x39.

For Law enforcement i.e police, 5.56 is a no brainer. But for COIN, paramil, Infantry and SF, there is something about the AK platform that has a higher perceived reliability, durability factor which IA and Indian forces at large will not abandon easily. Do I get this right @AVINASH4061?

Also in a direct action covert op behind enemy lines would your prefer a well kitted out M-4 or well kitted AK version (I don't know if you've had experience with kitted out AKs, I assume you do) or Tavor?

 

[Scramjet]

For Law enforcement i.e police, 5.56 is a no brainer. But for COIN, paramil, Infantry and SF, there is something about the AK platform that has a higher perceived reliability, durability factor which IA and Indian forces at large will not abandon easily. Correct if I get this right @AVINASH4061?

Also in a suppose a direct action op in behind enemy lines would your prefer a well kitted out M-4 or well kitted AK version (I don't know if you've had experience with kitted out AKs, I assume you do)

AKs are preffered due to the reasons you just mentioned, moreover, our guys are built in such a way that AK is a perfect fit for them (for most of the fauj)
Also, avinash sir has mentioned it over and over that equipment is operation and mandate specific

 

[Immanuel]

AKs are preffered due to the reasons you just mentioned, moreover, our guys are built in such a way that AK is a perfect fit for them (for most of the fauj)
Also, avinash sir has mentioned it over and over that equipment is operation and mandate specific

Indeed, I agree, I don't think we need to be bashing the AK-203, as long as they get the right versions, it's still miles better than the INSAS, combine that with the SIG, the infantry and paramil should be happy with that.

I was wondering about @AVINASH4061 's preference if it were a: go in, fuck shit up majorly and bug out kind of op. Example the surgical strike.

 

[Popeye]

Does IB operate any SF unit dedicated for domestic operations?? I really wish it has one comparable to fbi hrt

last time Congress wanted to give IB tooth and nail through NCTC Under IB. But Some CMs' Opposed it.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Sorry i dont have much info except those available on net. Ask @rkhanna @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR, they might give u an unbiased answer.

Ikhwans i guess he wants to know about?

 

[ALBY]

Ikhwans i guess he wants to know about?

He is asking about Hunny Bakshi and others who were associated with Technical service division

 

[rkhanna]

Ikhwans i guess he wants to know about?

Yea but the Ikhwans dumb fuckery was at a different level. How many died in reprisals ?

He is asking about Hunny Bakshi and others who were associated with Technical service division

Been discussed to death on the old thread.

Go through the references cited in the wiki articlr on TSD. All accurate and sums up what happened.

 

[Maitreya Shyam]

last time Congress wanted to give IB tooth and nail through NCTC Under IB. But Some CMs' Opposed it.

Sad part is that even modi opposed it and ajit doval wanted nctc

 

[rkhanna]

Sad part is that even modi opposed it and ajit doval wanted nctc

lol if for even one second you believe this current govt is different from any other then the joke is entirely on you. Sub maya hai maya ;p

 

[Maitreya Shyam]

lol if for even one second you believe this current govt is different from any other then the joke is entirely on you. Sub maya hai maya ;p

Matlab bhai , baat sir ke uppar se gayi

 

[rkhanna]

Matlab bhai , baat sir ke uppar se gayi

What I meant to say is that this Govt is as corrupt, self serving and incompetent as any other government we have had. to believe otherwise is a delusion. Just PR/Marketing skills are different.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

Matlab bhai , baat sir ke uppar se gayi

Party interest above national interest chahe voh congress ho ya bjp ya koi aur

 

[Popeye]

What I meant to say is that this Govt is as corrupt, self serving and incompetent as any other government we have had. to believe otherwise is a delusion. Just PR/Marketing skills are different.

Every decision has good and bad side.
if tomorrow congress won, they wouldn't enjoy UAPA ?

 

[Tactical Doge]

Every decision has good and bad side.
if tomorrow congress won, they wouldn't enjoy UAPA ?

If Congress wins
Pappu PM
If pappu PM, another era of sucking up to the Chinis and Paxstanis
I have my issues with Moulana Mudi Ji, but Work with what you got
It's not France for god's sake
We all do "vote nahi dunga" in twitter for their incompetency, but would anyone vote for pappu,
Especially if one consider matters of national security

 

[India Super Power]

Arad rifle is just awesome with all accessories, is it not possible for Israelis to enter a deal with GOI like they did with vajpayee govt for tavors, like our three sf using arad and all the tavors going to para airborne, crpf, cisf, cobra.

 

[Tactical Doge]

Arad rifle is just awesome with all accessories, is it not possible for Israelis to enter a deal with GOI like they did with vajpayee govt for tavors, like our three sf using arad and all the tavors going to para airborne, crpf, cisf, cobra.

I like the Arad too
A beauty
@FalconSlayers had been long advocating for the Arad,
I don't mind the MCx as well

 

[rkhanna]

Arad rifle is just awesome with all accessories, is it not possible for Israelis to enter a deal with GOI like they did with vajpayee govt for tavors, like our three sf using arad and all the tavors going to para airborne, crpf, cisf, cobra.

They probably pitched but political expediancy towards Russia for the S400s has forced us into the 203s. + Possibly cheaper