Indian Special Forces

[Waanar]

Had the "pleasure" of sitting down with a bunch of low rank officers.
I'm heartbroken. Heartbroken and disappointed.

Heard the same "guts matter more than skills" and heard a lot of bullshit which clearly telegraphed that our soldiers aren't getting trained enough.
I'm gutted. I did not expect this level of both unfounded ego and uneducated opinions from our finest.

I pray these guys are just the bottom 10% of the organization or something and not the average piece because I'm genuinely sad. I doubted the old timers here but I don't know anymore. The silver lining here is really thin and it's hard to be optimistic today. Their mindset was genuinely human wave oriented more than anything else. They said some good things which were wholly eclipsed by the bad that they didn't know they put out. Lot of it was sensitive stuff I won't talk about. Sorry for the KLPD but it was a very distinct conversation and I can't talk about details because they'll immediately know Gangadhar hi Waanar hai.

Feel like I talked to a bunch of Bihari constables from the 90s.

 

[abingdonboy]

Had the "pleasure" of sitting down with a bunch of low rank officers.
I'm heartbroken. Heartbroken and disappointed.

Heard the same "guts matter more than skills" and heard a lot of bullshit which clearly telegraphed that our soldiers aren't getting trained enough.
I'm gutted. I did not expect this level of both unfounded ego and uneducated opinions from our finest.

I pray these guys are just the bottom 10% of the organization or something and not the average piece because I'm genuinely sad. I doubted the old timers here but I don't know anymore. The silver lining here is really thin and it's hard to be optimistic today. Their mindset was genuinely human wave oriented more than anything else. They said some good things which were wholly eclipsed by the bad that they didn't know they put out. Lot of it was sensitive stuff I won't talk about. Sorry for the KLPD but it was a very distinct conversation and I can't talk about details because they'll immediately know Gangadhar hi Waanar hai.

Feel like I talked to a bunch of Bihari constables from the 90s.

Not sure why anyone would be surprised, they aren’t at fault, the organisation that has taught them that is. Given the mess we see at an operational level of the Indian military it’s been obvious for a while that the doctrine/culture is questionable with wrong incentives. The way Kargil was fought was the embodiment of that

The irony that the conscript army across the border is mechanising, reducing manpower and focusing more on training shouldn’t be lost on anyone. At this point I just hope the bloody nose won’t be existential, the way things are going it’s not going to get better without external shocks.

you have a COAS nominally charged with reforming his force, a few weeks after retiring he’s publicly stating there’s no organisational doctrine to centre these reforms. This is before you listen to all of the wave of veterans actively briefing against Indian industry.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Had the "pleasure" of sitting down with a bunch of low rank officers.
I'm heartbroken. Heartbroken and disappointed.

Heard the same "guts matter more than skills" and heard a lot of bullshit which clearly telegraphed that our soldiers aren't getting trained enough.
I'm gutted. I did not expect this level of both unfounded ego and uneducated opinions from our finest.

I pray these guys are just the bottom 10% of the organization or something and not the average piece because I'm genuinely sad. I doubted the old timers here but I don't know anymore. The silver lining here is really thin and it's hard to be optimistic today. Their mindset was genuinely human wave oriented more than anything else. They said some good things which were wholly eclipsed by the bad that they didn't know they put out. Lot of it was sensitive stuff I won't talk about. Sorry for the KLPD but it was a very distinct conversation and I can't talk about details because they'll immediately know Gangadhar hi Waanar hai.

Feel like I talked to a bunch of Bihari constables from the 90s.

Haha so you didnt take my posts seriously when i said numerous times that the standard has gone down?

When my old man joined Army an officer had more respect than any IAS or IPS.

Now i see children not even wanting to join army except fauji kids who don't study well

As a result our product is weak.

 

[Waanar]

Haha so you didnt take my posts seriously when i said numerous times that the standard has gone down?

When my old man joined Army an officer had more respect than any IAS or IPS.

Now i see children not even wanting to join army except fauji kids who don't study well

As a result our product is weak.

No sir, I hold all your inputs and opinions in high regard but I made the grave sin of assumption when I considered it to be one of those "back in my day, we would dive a hundred metres in the ocean to get to our school" thing that our elders often tout. Things can't possibly be that bad, right?
Wrong.
I was dead wrong.

When we take PoK ( because I'm sure the political leadership doesn't understand the depth of rot in the Army), we're in for a rude shock and merely romanticizing the "olive green" will not be enough of a PR. We will take PoK, no doubt but the casualties would make your skin crawl if the Army doesn't radically modify itself within a few years which is never going to happen.
They have taken the immense human capital that the country can offer for granted.

 

[jai jaganath]

No sir, I hold all your inputs and opinions in high regard but I made the grave sin of assumption when I considered it to be one of those "back in my day, we would dive a hundred metres in the ocean to get to our school" thing that our elders often tout. Things can't possibly be that bad, right?
Wrong.
I was dead wrong.

When we take PoK ( because I'm sure the political leadership doesn't understand the depth of rot in the Army), we're in for a rude shock and merely romanticizing the "olive green" will not be enough of a PR. We will take PoK, no doubt but the casualties would make your skin crawl if the Army doesn't radically modify itself within a few years which is never going to happen.
They have taken the immense human capital that the country can offer for granted.

I beg to disagree here
We will never take back pok atleast with current stature bcoz keeping other issues aside and only focusing on fighting then pmo knows about the situation better than us and with better practicality
Pmo will be very thoughtful bcoz they have to analyze each and everything here and knowing that our military still lives in human wave tactics the casualties will be high
Forget BJP or congress going for it as this would destroy their politics for ever
As our population has no appetite for war at all the moment casualties will turns 1000s the politics will change forever
No party is gonna shoot on its leg
Pok either coming by own which is not possible or ain't coming at all

 

[Waanar]

I beg to disagree here
We will never take back pok atleast with current stature bcoz keeping other issues aside and only focusing on fighting then pmo knows about the situation better than us and with better practicality
Pmo will be very thoughtful bcoz they have to analyze each and everything here and knowing that our military still lives in human wave tactics the casualties will be high
Forget BJP or congress going for it as this would destroy their politics for ever
As our population has no appetite for war at all the moment casualties will turns 1000s the politics will change forever
No party is gonna shoot on its leg
Pok either coming by own which is not possible or ain't coming at all

The Swaziland Military with 1.3 million men would take PoK. Overwhelming numbers do damage disproportionately. I can't tell what numbers we will lose but I can tell you that PoK will definitely fall to us once the war starts.
It's just that we will lose thousands of men who could've gone on to tell their stories of glory and live a fulfilling life because some geniuses think guts is all that matters and everything has to go through a red tape circus.

 

[jai jaganath]

The Swaziland Military with 1.3 million men would take PoK. Overwhelming numbers do damage disproportionately. I can't tell what numbers we will lose but I can tell you that PoK will definitely fall to us once the war starts.
It's just that we will lose thousands of men who could've gone on to tell their stories of glory and live a fulfilling life because some geniuses think guts is all that matters and everything has to go through a red tape circus.

What I am saying is that nobody in power would like to have 10s and 1000s of casualties
Pok in our hands or not is issue of latter
It comes to our hand or not the casualties would be damn high
So no pm is gonna order it
War on pok is impossible

 

[ManhattanProject]

The Swaziland Military with 1.3 million men would take PoK. Overwhelming numbers do damage disproportionately. I can't tell what numbers we will lose but I can tell you that PoK will definitely fall to us once the war starts.
It's just that we will lose thousands of men who could've gone on to tell their stories of glory and live a fulfilling life because some geniuses think guts is all that matters and everything has to go through a red tape circus.

Russia thought Ukraine will fold in days, look what happened. Pakistan is a nuclear state and has China backing it.

 

[Kumaoni]

Russia thought Ukraine will fold in days, look what happened. Pakistan is a nuclear state and has China backing it.

India couldn’t even defeat Pakistan in 65 lol

 

[Ulinatheclever]

India couldn’t even defeat Pakistan in 65 lol

In 65 pakistan had most technological advantages plus backing of a nuclear china and usa

 

[abingdonboy]

No sir, I hold all your inputs and opinions in high regard but I made the grave sin of assumption when I considered it to be one of those "back in my day, we would dive a hundred metres in the ocean to get to our school" thing that our elders often tout. Things can't possibly be that bad, right?
Wrong.
I was dead wrong.

When we take PoK ( because I'm sure the political leadership doesn't understand the depth of rot in the Army), we're in for a rude shock and merely romanticizing the "olive green" will not be enough of a PR. We will take PoK, no doubt but the casualties would make your skin crawl if the Army doesn't radically modify itself within a few years which is never going to happen.
They have taken the immense human capital that the country can offer for granted.

Oh man, forget about offensive ops, the Indian military will be lucky to get through the next decade without a series of bruising humiliations

Whether you like it or not 27 Feb 2019 was a tactical failure (just like Balakot was a tactical success) and if the IAF had the superiority they thought they would’ve made the PAF pay in real time but the loss of Abhi and the Mi17 disrupted the entire escalation ladder and sent shivers up the leadership. The GoI had given the IAF a free hand after balakot and they were found wanting. in the aftermath they haven’t taken many corrective equipment steps, training/tactics who knows

the IA is in no better shape in the East

The navy might be a non entity right now but give it another 10 years and PLAN will be roaming freely in IOR, this could lead to plenty of flare ups

The responses to 26/11, Pathankot, Pulwama etc tell me the civilians actually do have a pretty decent idea of the limitations of Indian hard power but if a conflict is brought to India’s doorstep you have to fight with what you have and it won’t be pretty at all.

 

[abingdonboy]

The Swaziland Military with 1.3 million men would take PoK. Overwhelming numbers do damage disproportionately. I can't tell what numbers we will lose but I can tell you that PoK will definitely fall to us once the war starts.
It's just that we will lose thousands of men who could've gone on to tell their stories of glory and live a fulfilling life because some geniuses think guts is all that matters and everything has to go through a red tape circus.

Nah, the Indian public/govt doesn’t have the backbone to stomach losses for an offensive action, IPFK was called back because of this very reason. How often has india pressed its advantage?

at this point let the Indian armed forces be a defence force, keep them up to date so they act as a deterrent and grow the economy to the point Pakistan comes with its begging bowl to the table, the kind of economic disparity opening up between the 2 isn’t sustainable for them

China is a different kettle of fish but if India can get through this decade without a major scrap with them then it has a good chance to close the gap imo as the Chinese are already growing old before they grow rich, they may have already peaked (growth wise)

 

[abingdonboy]

Russia thought Ukraine will fold in days, look what happened. Pakistan is a nuclear state and has China backing it.

People seem to really discount this fact, Pakistan is poor but on a tactical level they have near parity with India- India’s armed forces can never be 100% focused on Pakistan. Traditionally it was 70-30 West to East but post 2020 this has rapidly been rebalanced, maybe as much as 60-40 or even 50-50

in the battlefield India’s numbers may not actually be anymore than Pakistan’s. Look at the AFs- PAF can put near 100% of their ~25 fighter squadrons and 8 AWACS against the IAF, the IAF’s ~30 squadrons are split between the 2 fronts and even in the south and in A&N (to a small extent). The 5 odd AWACS ditto.

good luck obliterating them without a numbers or even technological advantage-PL15 is a decent product, the SU-30s have nothing in IAF service that really matches that as of now, the 36 odd Rafales with their Meteors aren’t going to cut it. LCA MK1A/2+Derby ER is still quite a while away

 

[Kumaoni]

In 65 pakistan had most technological advantages plus backing of a nuclear china and usa

India even then managed to take lots of features in PoK with minimal loss

 

[Kumaoni]

Oh man, forget about offensive ops, the Indian military will be lucky to get through the next decade without a series of bruising humiliations

Whether you like it or not 27 Feb 2019 was a tactical failure (just like Balakot was a tactical success) and if the IAF had the superiority they thought they would’ve made the PAF pay in real time but the loss of Abhi and the Mi17 disrupted the entire escalation ladder and sent shivers up the leadership. The GoI had given the IAF a free hand after balakot and they were found wanting. in the aftermath they haven’t taken many corrective equipment steps, training/tactics who knows

the IA is in no better shape in the East

The navy might be a non entity right now but give it another 10 years and PLAN will be roaming freely in IOR, this could lead to plenty of flare ups

The responses to 26/11, Pathankot, Pulwama etc tell me the civilians actually do have a pretty decent idea of the limitations of Indian hard power but if a conflict is brought to India’s doorstep you have to fight with what you have and it won’t be pretty at all.

India lost everything. Happy?

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

The Swaziland Military with 1.3 million men would take PoK. Overwhelming numbers do damage disproportionately. I can't tell what numbers we will lose but I can tell you that PoK will definitely fall to us once the war starts.
It's just that we will lose thousands of men who could've gone on to tell their stories of glory and live a fulfilling life because some geniuses think guts is all that matters and everything has to go through a red tape circus.

I dont know about you bro but i dont think we can attack and hold POK..its just a political jumla for ths stupid middle class.

Haha we will just unite all muslims of Pakistan and it will start a war of the kind faced in Afghanistan.

casualties will keep mounting and local pakis will get motivated in lakhs to join the war...weapons are plenty and soon we will have all the militant organisation based in pak united and fighting us.

We are not even taking the nuclear threat seriously in this.

So i dont know what calculator BJP and Indian Army used..but deciding to not go to Afghanistan and then thinking of attacking and holding POK ..and then not counting the Nuke and China angle is just a masterstroke.

 

[Kumaoni]

I dont know about you bro but i dont think we can attack and hold POK..its just a political jumla for ths stupid middle class.

Haha we will just unite all muslims of Pakistan and it will start a war of the kind faced in Afghanistan.

casualties will keep mounting and local pakis will get motivated in lakhs to join the war...weapons are plenty and soon we will have all the militant organisation based in pak united and fighting us.

We are not even taking the nuclear threat seriously in this.

So i dont know what calculator BJP and Indian Army used..but deciding to not go to Afghanistan and then thinking of attacking and holding POK ..and then not counting the Nuke and China angle is just a masterstroke.

Indian army can’t even defeat bangladesh

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Indian army can’t even defeat bangladesh

unlike u i am not bullshiting on this thread.

 

[rkhanna]

Indian army can’t even defeat bangladesh

Sarcasm?

 

[Kumaoni]

unlike u i am not bullshiting on this thread.

I’m not bullshitting. The “army” is barely even comparable to militia. No standardized uniform, weaponry, or whatever.