India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[fire starter]

Major Chinese Airbases and Major Indian Airbases comparison.

The Chinese Airbase along Indian border as shown in images has mass amounts of Shenyang J-11, J-16. Nanchang Q-5 and Chengdu J-10s. The exact number of deployment cannot be found but satellite imagery shows a fairly good number of active deployment.

On the other hand Map showing major Indian Airbases along China border are shown. These Airbases have Su-30MKI and SEPECAT Jaguars deployed alongside them.

All these Airbases are within strike range of fighter planes of both airforces. These Airbases also have AWACS and Ground Based radar support.

On Chinese Border India has nearly 13 Squadrons of Su-30MKI out of which 4 squadrons are deployed at Bareilly, Chabua and Tezpur. There are 6 squadrons of Jaguar, out of which 4 are based at Gorakhpur and Ambala.

From overall picture India seems to be well capable of defending herself.

 

[Mikesingh]

Few would be aware of the Galwan incident in May 1962 prior to the Sino Indian war where the Chinese were taught a bloody lesson. In May 1962, overriding the objections of the Western Command, the army headquarters ordered it to set up a post on the Galwan River. This post became the scene of fierce fighting during May 1962 after it was surrounded by the Chinese.

According to the book written by Chinese military historians, Sun Xiao & Chen Zhi bin, 'The Snow Of The Himalayas', (US$ 89.00) a depleted company consisting of 68 Gorkha soldiers fought back several Chinese attacks on the Galwan Post killing 874 Chinese. The remaining 30 Gorkha soldiers were ordered to withdraw due to overwhelming odds after a week of fierce fighting.

The bodies of the 874 Chinese soldiers were discovered by Indian patrols in 1982 and were retrieved and buried in a little known hamlet, Urmachinu.

There are many such incidents of the bravery of Indian soldiers in the face of overwhelming odds before and during the Sino Indian war of '62, details of which have been lost in the mists of time!

This incident has also been mentioned in the Regimental History of the Gorkhas.

 

[another_armchair]

Few would be aware of the Galwan incident in May 1962 prior to the Sino Indian war where the Chinese were taught a bloody lesson. In May 1962, overriding the objections of the Western Command, the army headquarters ordered it to set up a post on the Galwan River. This post became the scene of fierce fighting during May 1962 after it was surrounded by the Chinese.

According to the book written by a Chinese historian ,'The Snow Of The Himalayas', a depleted company consisting of 68 Gorkha soldiers fought back several Chinese attacks on the Galwan Post killing 874 Chinese. The remaining 30 Gorkha soldiers were ordered to withdraw due to overwhelming odds after a week of fierce fighting.

The bodies of the 874 Chinese soldiers were discovered by Indian patrols in 1982 and were retrieved and buried in a little known hamlet, Urmachinu.

There are many such incidents of the bravery of Indian soldiers in the face of overwhelming odds before and during the Sino Indian war of 62, details of which have been lost in the mists of time!

This incident has been mentioned in the Regimental History of the Gorkhas.

Can we compile a list of similar incidents to keep a body count of squintys?

Sounds petty but we need those statistics to keep the info war burning from our side too as most of our folks are ignorant and believe we suffered troop losses of 50k upwards during the 62 war.

 

[WARREN SS]

We Can Deploy Apache Ah-64 E there + hellfire

Elevation of Leh is 3,500 m (11,500 ft)

 

[fire starter]

summed up everything.

 

[Coalmine]

I think this is perfect opportunity to liberate tibet. We need to fight over the entire border. So many migrant labours can be recruited with AK 47. Waves after waves need to be launched to liberate Tibet.
Chinese are pussies.

 

[Lancer]

summed up everything.

I've always found it interesting how he constantly oscillates between reliable/reasonable and complete BS.

 

[another_armchair]

China cries foul as Canadian court rules Huawei CFO's case meets standard of "double criminality"

Offered without comments.

 

[IndiaRising]

I've always found it interesting how he constantly oscillates between reliable/reasonable and complete BS.

who is it? Tweet not loading for me

 

[Mikesingh]

Indian and Chinese Air Power on border, how do they compare ?

India and China both have ammased their own Flanker derivates all along the border. The Chinese airbases seem to being upgraded and built fast since last year. It is clearly evident that India is better prepared and enjoys more geographical advantage.

The images below shows locations of primary Chinese and Indian Airbases. The Indian Air Bases have been properly grouped and are accessible from land for upkeep and supplies.

The Chinese Air Bases are all connected with each other through a single major highway called Tibet- Sinkiag(Xinjiang) highway. This highway falls very close to Indian border and a portion of this highway also pass through Aksai Chin. The central region of Tibet is sparsely populated, have scantful resources and very less road connectivity. The Chinese airbases observation reveals that they are neither properly grouped, but they are depeson only one big road for land accessibility. Recently an Indian OSINT Twitter handle tweeted latest satellite imagery showing Chinese J-11 and J-16s being deployed at Gunsa airbase in Ngari prefecture, shown by the name gargunsa in Tibet. Despite China having superior numbers in fighter planes and even a 5th generation fighter, they cannot deploy all their airforce in Tibet.

Group Capt (Retd) Ravinder S Chhatwal, former Senior Fellow Centre for Air Power Studies, New Delhi, and author of the book ‘The Chinese Air Threat: Understanding the Reality’ writes in his book describing Chinese Airbases shown in picture. He says that of Chinese airbase of Gargunsa if bombed by the Indian Air Force, there will be a gap of 1,500 km between Hotan and nearest airfield Hoping. China will remain with only 4 major airfield in Tibet which will be vulnerable from mass attacks from Indian AFSs in North East. The Chinese Airbases of Kashgar and Horan will be disconnected from rest of PLAAF for a prolonged period and won't be able to support operations in Ladakh for longer times. Kashgar and Hotan lie in Xinjiang autonomous region.

The Tibet-Xinjiang highway will be broken and with availablity of no other major route or airbase in the vicinity the Chinese would be left with no alternative than to step back. Now look at Indian Map of Northern AFSs. The Bareilly Air Base has two Su-30 MKI squadrons named No.8 Squadron “Eight Pursoots” and No. 24 Squadron “Hawks”. The Gansu Airbase of China is well within reach.

Once again look at Ambala Airbase and Gorakhpur Airbase. Ambala houses No.5 Squadron “Tuskers” and No.14 Squadron “Bulls”. Gorakhpur has No.27 Squadron “Flaming Arrows” and No.16 Squadrons “Black Cobras”. These airbases houses the Jaguar Deep Penetration Strike Aircraft. All these Airbases are not just properly connected, land accessible but can attack the Gargunsa Airbase. But we must take into account Hotan Airbase. As shown in images Hotan has largest number of Chinese Fighters.
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Point to note is that these Chinese Flankers are at high altitude airfields and therefore can only have restricted loadouts which is a huge disadvantage to them. We on the other hand can carry the full complement of missiles, rockets, and bombs on 12 hardpoints on our SUs with a capacity of up to 8,000 kg. Note that takeoffs in rarefied atmosphere with a full loadout and fuel is a problem that the Chinese in Tibet will always have.

In short, the PLAAF would need to depend on air-to-air refuelling to execute most deep strike missions into Indian territory which in any case is a serious limitation on its inventory. This raises the vulnerability of fuel tankers in proximity of the borders. Alternatively, the PLAAF will have to use airfields in the plains which have the inherent limitation of reduced radius of action and operational depth into Indian Territory.

 

[Lancer]

We Can Deploy Apache Ah-64 E there + hellfire

Elevation of Leh is 3,500 m (11,500 ft)

How many do we have at hand right now? Are they even ready to be deployed (or are they still being broken in)?

Now would've probably been a good time to have swarms of LCH's, I hope the CDS focuses on those as a procurement priority - since LCH's and Rudras are indigenous and cheap. Those two will likely have to make up the bulk of our attack helo fleet anyways - since current and future Apache numbers look quite small.

 

[Lancer]

who is it? Tweet not loading for me

Abhijeet Iyer Mitra

 

[IndiaRising]

Point to note is that these Chinese Flankers are at high altitude airfields and therefore can only have restricted loadouts which is a huge disadvantage to them. We on the other hand can carry the full complement of missiles, rockets, and bombs on 12 hardpoints on our SUs with a capacity of up to 8,000 kg. Note that takeoffs in rarefied atmosphere with a full loadout and fuel is a problem that the Chinese in Tibet will always have.

In short, the PLAAF would need to depend on air-to-air refuelling to execute most deep strike missions into Indian territory which in any case is a serious limitation on its inventory. This raises the vulnerability of fuel tankers in proximity of the borders. Alternatively, the PLAAF will have to use airfields in the plains which have the inherent limitation of reduced radius of action and operational depth into Indian Territory.

Sir, if it’s true that the Chinese have dug in and refuse to move back from Pangong Tso and Galwan Valley, would it be fair to assume that IA will be left with no other option than to do the same? If so, which sectors do you think IA would prefer?

 

[Mangal]

CNN IBN is reporting the ingress to be 1-3 kms on various locations. What I understand is that the Chinease are claiming entire Galwan valley. That has become a big point of contention. The soft diplomatic words only came after they have dug up inside our territory. Nothing has changed on ground.

 

[Sanglamorre]

How many do we have at hand right now? Are they even ready to be deployed (or are they still being broken in)?

Now would've probably been a good time to have swarms of LCH's, I hope the CDS focuses on those as a procurement priority - since LCH's and Rudras are indigenous and cheap. Those two will likely have to make up the bulk of our attack helo fleet anyways - since current and future Apache numbers look quite small.

What will we use Apaches for in a Chinese conflict? Will get swatted out of the sky in AAD rich environment. Can it even handle the elevation at Ladakh?

It's a good machine to mow down poor equipment terrorists and Naxals, I don't think it'll play any major role in wars.

 

[IndiaRising]

CNN IBN is reporting the ingress to be 1-3 kms on various locations. What I understand is that the Chinease are claiming entire Galwan valley. That has become a big point of contention. The soft diplomatic words only came after they have dug up inside our territory. Nothing has changed on ground.

IA is not dumb. We understand their words and IA has clearly said that we expect those soft diplomatic words to translate into action.. otherwise we will move forward with our plans.

 

[WARREN SS]

How many do we have at hand right now? Are they even ready to be deployed (or are they still being broken in)?

Now would've probably been a good time to have swarms of LCH's, I hope the CDS focuses on those as a procurement priority - since LCH's and Rudras are indigenous and cheap. Those two will likely have to make up the bulk of our attack helo fleet anyways - since current and future Apache numbers look quite small.

17 Are Delivered As of Now I think 7-8 Will Be Enough I guess For Whole Brigade of tanks

 

[WARREN SS]

What will we use Apaches for in a Chinese conflict? Will get swatted out of the sky in AAD rich environment. Can it even handle the elevation at Ladakh?

Anti-Armour Roles against Chinese AFV's And Light tanks
Provide CAS support Taking Out
Carrying out Low Level Strikes inside Enemy Territory Evading radars By Flying in Nap of the Earth

 

[IndianHawk]

How many do we have at hand right now? Are they even ready to be deployed (or are they still being broken in)?

Now would've probably been a good time to have swarms of LCH's, I hope the CDS focuses on those as a procurement priority - since LCH's and Rudras are indigenous and cheap. Those two will likely have to make up the bulk of our attack helo fleet anyways - since current and future Apache numbers look quite small.

They come ready for deployment . That's one benefit of USA gear compared too Russian.

17 Are Delivered As of Now I think 7-8 Will Be Enough I guess For Whole Brigade of tanks

They can keep busting tanks after tanks so as long we can supply them with more missiles.
They are the most capable fighting helos in the world afterall.

They could also take down chiense Sam radars infact that's their primary role for USA. They fly low below the radars range . No one can see them coming and once they bust enemy Sam's it's air superiority time.

 

[IndianHawk]

CNN IBN is reporting the ingress to be 1-3 kms on various locations. What I understand is that the Chinease are claiming entire Galwan valley. That has become a big point of contention. The soft diplomatic words only came after they have dug up inside our territory. Nothing has changed on ground.

Don't ever trust anything coming from CNN even in CNN ibn. Get your news from wion or ddnews.